copyright Am I violating copyright?

[burt]

Hi, could someone help me understand if I am violating the copyright law. Because me and my friends plan to make a game using multiple songs but only using portions of each songs never the whole copy of it.

If I use a portion of a song let say around 10-45 seconds of play time in a game will I be violating the copyright law?
One good example of an existing app "Dont forget the lyrics" link to see the app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bluecorner.dontforgetthelyrics&hl=en

do we need to contact all of the artist whose song we are going to use?

Thanks in advance!

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

Breaking copyright law. Unless the game is free and you use fair use, your breaking copyright law. You have to get permission from the album/song creator to use the song.

[Guest]

Best practice would be to ask permission from anyone who's music you would like to use. But fair use can be claimed if you are using either 10% (if memory serves), or 10 seconds. Which ever is LOWER.

[MrMarriarty]

general rule of thumb if your making money in anyway from someone else's work then yes your breaking copy write law unless its royalty free but you still need permission most of the time. If you even for a second wonder if you are breaking copy write law you probably are

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

4 minutes ago, Syn Messer said:

Best practice would be to ask permission from anyone who's music you would like to use. But fair use can be claimed if you are using either 10% (if memory serves), or 10 seconds. Which ever is LOWER.

As long as it's free he can, yes. If not, he can't.

[burt]

The problem sometimes with asking permission is that the owner of the song does not reply to our request.

If the game is free, but we could ask for donations from players (is this ok?)

[MrMarriarty]

1 minute ago, burt said:

The problem sometimes with asking permission is that the owner of the song does not reply to our request.

If the game is free, but we could ask for donations from players (is this ok?)

in short NO

 

if you got the music score and created the music your self.. not using there studio recording i do believe thats not copywite applicable (its more plagiarism which i dont thinks enforceable for music but i could be wrong)   

[cluelessgenius]

i dont know about your specific case but in general i tend to think of it like cheating on your partner.

if you start to even ask yourself wether or not its cheating, it probably is.

[knightslugger]

8 minutes ago, MrMarriarty said:

in short NO

 

if you got the music score and created the music your self.. not using there studio recording i do believe thats not copywite applicable (its more plagiarism which i dont thinks enforceable for music but i could be wrong)   

Think of it like cover bands playing in bars. Pretty sure they didn't get AC/DC's permission to perform their own rendition of Back in Black for a lobby full of drunk 'tards.

[anothertom]

1 minute ago, MrMarriarty said:

if you got the music score and created the music your self.. not using there studio recording i do believe thats not copywite applicable (its more plagiarism which i dont thinks enforceable for music but i could be wrong)   

Plagiarism is very much enforceable in music. The recent case of blurred lines, where the family of Marvin Gaye were awarded a large portion of the revenue, and (less recent) the Verve bittersweet symphony, where the royalties go to the rolling stones.

 

These cases aren't even a direct copy, just large influences in the songs, so if you were to literally recreate a song then you would likely be looking at losing however much you should have spent licensing the song.

12 minutes ago, burt said:

The problem sometimes with asking permission is that the owner of the song does not reply to our request.

If the game is free, but we could ask for donations from players (is this ok?)

Then you need to contact the correct person. Usually it should be handled through the label releasing the recording and they would have dedicated people to this, but if it's a individual sho has released something via soundcloud or similar, then you're simply out of luck if they chose not to respond.

[burt]

So, is it safe to assume that the app I stated earlier has permissions from all those different artist and recording company to use the songs for entertainment and monetary purposes.

[MrMarriarty]

4 minutes ago, anothertom said:

Verve bittersweet symphony, where the royalties go to the rolling stones.

i did not know this (love that track!!!!) just for my reference do you know what they got done on?

[MrMarriarty]

1 minute ago, burt said:

So, is it safe to assume that the app I stated earlier has permissions from all those different artist and recording company to use the songs for entertainment and monetary purposes.

either they have or they will get a very large bill!

[anothertom]

3 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Think of it like cover bands playing in bars. Pretty sure they didn't get AC/DC's permission to perform their own rendition of Back in Black for a lobby full of drunk 'tards.

Cover bands are a grey area, the venue should be handling the licensing (in the UK PRS or PPL) through the proper authorities, where (above a certain audience size) they should be paying for the use of unoriginal songs. However, for bands dedicated to a single bands work, the original band may not choose to force payment (as in the recent case of Sandman, a Metallica covers band).

[anothertom]

4 minutes ago, MrMarriarty said:

i did not know this (love that track!!!!) just for my reference do you know what they got done on?

They supposedly had a 50/50 royalties split agreed for use of a shorter sample than they used. Then they used more than they should have, or the rolling stones decided the track was getting popular and wanted a bigger share, end result the stones got 100%.

[burt]

Will this be a fair use? 
From what I know if I do not affect the earning of the artist or recording company, also if my work is in a way a Transformative Use (correct me if I am wrong)  affects the public/market in a way it would be both beneficial to end users and artist (let say making the song more popular or known to the public).

[anothertom]

Obligatory, i am not a lawyer, and nothing here should be taken as legally correct.

 

I an important factor here is if you're intending to profit from the use of the material (either through selling the app or through advertising), and how you're presenting the material.

 

If I were the artist, and you were using significant portions of my work, making money off it in a non-satirical way (or through just presenting my work) I would not be happy. If you were only using very short passages then it would be less of an issue, as individual songs are less recognisable.

 

What may be the case with this pre-existing app, is that they've got a deal with one or two large labels, where they are allowed small sections from across a large library of work, reducing the number of smaller agreements needed. I don't know, i didn't make it.

 

Transformative use is a very vague term, and is difficult to define, but i would hazard that simply taking a small segment is not transformative.