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Key Fob Security

BuckGup
By BuckGup
in Hobby Electronics
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To me the idea of a key fob is simple and reading up online confuses me. I was thinking it sends out a frequency that is custom to the car so you don't unlock others. It would also differ on who made the fob. But the same idea was present. Well reading up online it seems they have security built in. A rolling key and some other kind. But we haven't been able to crack or identify the other kind so to unlock a car you have to be by the person with the fob and have another receiver by the car to actually unlock it? What is this and why can't you just listen to the frequencies when someone unlocks or locks a car and reply them or every combination or them.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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IDK. Theft systems are beyond me. My transceiver (the part that scans the passive electronics chip in the actual key) crapped out on me. $350 dollar fix. 

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There are a few different ways that it can work, but probably the simplest secure one is that the key has a serial number (S), which the car knows, and an encryption key (K), which the car also knows. When you press the unlock button, the key generates a number (either a random number or just increments the previous number) (N), then sends S in plain text as well as {S, N} together encrypted using the shared encryption key K. When the car receives a message, it looks to see if the plaintext serial number S matches a key that it knows. If it does, it then it uses the key K to decrypt the encrypted part, and checks to see that S is correct there too (which proves that the sender knew the encryption key). If that matches, it then checks whether N, the single-use number, has been used recently (recently is probably in the last several thousand key presses), and only unlocks the car if it hasn't. The N is needed so that I can't record you unlocking your car, then replay that message to unlock it later.

This authentication scheme isn't entirely secure (if I had access to your keys for a bit, I could press unlock a few thousand times, then use an earlier recording), and there are other subtleties in actual implementation, but it should give you an idea of how it works.

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54 minutes ago, colonel_mortis said:

There are a few different ways that it can work, but probably the simplest secure one is that the key has a serial number (S), which the car knows, and an encryption key (K), which the car also knows. When you press the unlock button, the key generates a number (either a random number or just increments the previous number) (N), then sends S in plain text as well as {S, N} together encrypted using the shared encryption key K. When the car receives a message, it looks to see if the plaintext serial number S matches a key that it knows. If it does, it then it uses the key K to decrypt the encrypted part, and checks to see that S is correct there too (which proves that the sender knew the encryption key). If that matches, it then checks whether N, the single-use number, has been used recently (recently is probably in the last several thousand key presses), and only unlocks the car if it hasn't. The N is needed so that I can't record you unlocking your car, then replay that message to unlock it later.

This authentication scheme isn't entirely secure (if I had access to your keys for a bit, I could press unlock a few thousand times, then use an earlier recording), and there are other subtleties in actual implementation, but it should give you an idea of how it works.

What kind of encryption keys are we talking? Like 56bit DES? Because once you cracked the key couldn't you spoof it then?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

What kind of encryption keys are we talking? Like 56bit DES? Because once you cracked the key couldn't you spoof it then?

I don't know, though it's my understanding (as it was presented in a lecture) that the encryption is sufficiently secure that attacks don't typically discover the encryption key itself, they just find ways of not needing it in the first place. However, if someone did manage to crack the key, yes they would be able to impersonate the key.

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25 minutes ago, colonel_mortis said:

I don't know, though it's my understanding (as it was presented in a lecture) that the encryption is sufficiently secure that attacks don't typically discover the encryption key itself, they just find ways of not needing it in the first place. However, if someone did manage to crack the key, yes they would be able to impersonate the key.

Thanks for the info. Never knew how "secure" fobs were.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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when it comes to key fobs that use rolling code, it is actually entirely possible to just listen and resend what the fob outputs. The only trick is you need to listen to that key fob out of range of the car or actively jam and listen so the vehicles computer never knows that specific code has been "used". As long as the car never receives the code you listened to, there is no need to break any encryption. Just spitting out what you heard would be sufficient.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, this will ony really work on older fobs that modulation modes like OOK. Newer cars keys will likely be communicating 2 ways in harder to intercept digital modes.

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9 minutes ago, bob345 said:

when it comes to key fobs that use rolling code, it is actually entirely possible to just listen and resend what the fob outputs. The only trick is you need to listen to that key fob out of range of the car or actively jam and listen so the vehicles computer never knows that specific code has been "used". As long as the car never receives the code you listened to, there is no need to break any encryption. Just spitting out what you heard would be sufficient.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, this will ony really work on older fobs that modulation modes like OOK. Newer cars keys will likely be communicating 2 ways in harder to intercept digital modes.

Why is it so hard to I intercept though and do car manufactures really have enough combinations so you ever accidentally trigger someone else's car? Also does this apply to garage doors and other similar tech?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Why is it so hard to I intercept though and do car manufactures really have enough combinations so you ever accidentally trigger someone else's car? Also does this apply to garage doors and other similar tech?

older cars can be really easy, but on newer vehicles, They can use proprietary digital modes which would require reverse engineering to decode any data as well as spreading data over multiple frequencies. When it comes to accidentally triggering another car, its almost impossible to do. even though most key fobs are at roughly the same frequency (315mhz), every car will have a different encryption key. That plus all the different possible codes makes it more or less impossible. Garage doors are a whole other story though. Its honestly mindboggling how unsecured some systems are. Some only use a handful of different codes. So few that you could easily hear them all in one sitting if someone spams their button. All you would have to do is send the signals you listened to until one works.

 

Here is a good talk on how some of these systems work

 

 

Case: Phanteks Evolve X with ITX mount  cpu: Ryzen 3900X 4.35ghz all cores Motherboard: MSI X570 Unify gpu: EVGA 1070 SC  psu: Phanteks revolt x 1200W Memory: 64GB Kingston Hyper X oc'd to 3600mhz ssd: Sabrent Rocket 4.0 1TB ITX System CPU: 4670k  Motherboard: some cheap asus h87 Ram: 16gb corsair vengeance 1600mhz

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

 

 

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