new build == horrible cooling performance

[Pharixces]

Hey everyone,

 

After last weeks post i'm back with yet another problem i can't seem to solve. I hope you guys can help me and can spare some time reading my sorrows (TL;DR at the bottom).

 

Last week i revamped my build into a new case with some new coolers. 

I went from a Antec P280 (love this case because of the room), and a H100i, to a Cooler Master Mastercase 6 and a NZXT Kraken X62. Also i replaced my dual 120mm Scythe Static pressure fans to triple 140MM Corsair AF140's as intakes.

 

I am running these specs:
Motherboard: Asus Maximus VII Formula 

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K (stock speeds)

MEM: 32GB Corsair vengeance pro 2400MHZ DDR3
Video: 2x Asus GTX1080TI strix OC (stock speeds)
SSD: Samsung Pro 850 256GB
HDD: 2x Western Digital Black 3TB

 

The problem:

It cools like shite!.......

Let me clarify: idle temps CPU are around 38 degrees. idle temps GPU's around 40 degrees celcius.

On load the CPU (aida64) will stay around 60 degrees, but when i do something like furmark or as simple like WoW my GPU's will heat up to around (GPU1) 87/88 degrees celcius and (GPU2) around 75 degrees. The whole setup will thermaltrottle by around 200+ mhz and the system becomes loud as hell with everything kicking into higher gear.

 

Cooling situation:
i had 3 AF140MM as intakes at fixed RPM, thinking that would do the job since i removed all the drive cages. A 4th AF140MM sits in the back as an exhaust. In the top of the case i have my X62 in pull config with stock NZXT SP fans pulling out air. I rather would've set the CPU cooling to push instead of pull, but seeing as the case can't house that with a 280MM rad in the top i had to switch around the fans.

With that config i first ran into WoW BSODing in SLI on the nvidia chip. Also total war warhammer crashes due to overheating. It also doesnt matter if i switch my main GPU from top to bottom (differs around 2 degrees on the maincard).

Also in furmark it started thermal throttling after like 3 minutes of load.

 

What i have tried so far:

Feeling around in the case i noticed that the AF140's wouldn't create much airflow, air just sat in the front of the case and stayed there, or would've been pulled out of the top. Reading online i came across multiple article's that stated that airflow fans work best in absolute obstruction free situations. Seeing as i dont have my drive cages in, but i do have a dust filter from top to bottom behind the intake grill, i thought that would be my problem just there. I ordered 3 Noctua NF-A14 PWM instead and hoped my problems would dissapear. I read these fans work miracles on rad configs but also work well as case intake fans. 

Today my order came in and i fitted them straight away. Next up i set a fan curve and started benching. To my surprise my CPU idle temps when up by 2 degrees? And if that wasn't worse enough, my temps on the videocards stayed the same as with the AF140's! Also changing the fan curve or fan speed of the intake fans doesn't change anything.

 

What i think the problem is:

I think that air is being pulled over the videocards instead through them. Also since my cards are blower style cards, hot air just cycles around them and is being taken in. I believe the lack of airflow, or statuc pressure, is why hot air is being trapped down in the case (this is where im not sure anymore). Or that the fans just wont reach the back of the case due to lack of outtake power.

I felt the airflow in the case and its very strong in the front of the case but starts to feel weak half way. Also if i feel between the videocards i feel that the air is kinda strong at the back of the cards but doesnt reach to the end of the case.

 

TL;DR Question:

How can i improve air cooling my GPU's (mainly) with the tools that i have, and are my CPU temps also too warm given the AIO cooler? Or is my situation impossible given the setup i have and running SLI in this case? I just feel that too many variables temp wise are wrong.

 

Thanks alot for reading and your help. Every bit is most welcome as im pulling out my hair right now.

 

P.S. i added some pictures of my setup to help imagine the situation.

[jnkokseby]

Try putting the kraken in the front as intake and see what kind of temps you get

EDIT: Where does the front fans suck in air? The side or is the front a mesh or something like that? if the front is blocked air flow optimized fans wouldn't work as well as static pressure optimized fans would I believe I found out in my case.

[Pharixces]

The air is sucked in by the sides of the front panel. It latches free to give more room to get inside. Also I tried with the front panel off ( then it's just filtered mesh all the way). 

 

Just to clarify, I have the noctua fans as intakes which are specified as static pressure all round fans. 

 

Wont moving the kraken up front blow hot air towards my graphics cards and increase temps instead of lowering? I will be trying, but just to make sure we are on the same level since I want to lower gpu temps mainly and CPU secondly (since CPU temps are within acceptable range)

 

thanks for the help btw!

[JJVGaming]

Those strix cards are pushing a lot of air since they are a 3 fan design, and the top card is basically suffocating because all of that air is coming back to the GPU rather than out of it. The second GPU is also hot because of how close it is to the PSU shroud which is a similar situation to what is happening to the top GPU, but not as worse since its not suffocating as much. I had a similar situation with a MITX build and the card was pushing to 85 celsius. There isnt really much you can do unless you get ref design GPUs instead or a bigger case.

 

Also, those CPU temps are fine, that chip runs stock at 67 celsius with a h100i, so i think u r fine

[Pharixces]

I figured as much to be afraid. My antec p280 wasn't much bigger, but it didn't have that psu shroud going on at the bottom of the case which prevented barely overheating I guess. 

Downside is that I can't fit a bigger case and I don't want too go reference if I don't have too. But I see it now comes down to making choices I guess since this isn't going to work..... 

or sell of my second card and go single gpu again in the hope that it will cool ok like that. 

 

Also so many thanks. I'm at least getting the info I was lacking. 

[jnkokseby]

Ahh the GPU's, I think the only 'solution' is watercooling them, they are powerful cards.

[Liam-Wabbit]

Zalman use to sell brackets where you could place fans above the cards.
if you're going for looks, water cooling. 
afterburner you can switch off the temp controlled fans and ramp them up
I bought 3rd party coolers for all my cards. one cooler takes up 4 slots with fans lol
Last card i bought had hybrid cooling , runs like a dream. it's a 660ti 3gb gddr5.
I'll buy a new one near Christmas  I've already bought mounting brackets to use one of my old corsair sealed water cooling units  

try removing the fan at the rear. see if that redirects the air over the cards instead of being pulled out over the cpu
try removing the shroud from the power supply and fix power supply to pull air from in the case instead of from the bottom of the case.
I'm assuming the power supply has a fan that on the top and not on the side where the wire plug in 

 

[Pharixces]

I've been thinking a bit. Could it be that my antec p280 had more volume inside the case, even though the case has the same outer size as the mastercase 6?

 

in other words: would case volume benefit breathing room for the GPU's? Or is the lack of spacing between the top and bottom card the whole problem of the build?

 

I don't mind changing cases if that helps my problem. Changing graphics cards will be way harder for me to do and watercooling new cards is out of the option since it voids warranty.

 

And if changing case can greatly increase cooling, what kind of case would you recommend (keeping the red and black color scheme in mind)

 

Why i ask so much is also because i treat this as a learning experience and i want to know the logic behind the problem.

[WoodenMarker]

What rpm are you running your fans at?

[AV Techy]

Just to clarify, are the fans running at full speed? or are they slower than full speed to reduce noise output?

 

If the GPUs fans are at full speed under load then I can only conclude that they are too close together. Remember the Compensator builds? The cards were more crammed together but most of them were overheating making them less effecive. And the annoying fact that the radiator fins are oriented perpendicularly to the flow of air means there is little benefit to the GPUs from the case fans accept for driving air between the cards. It would be awesome if future GPU radiators were rotated their fins to gain from the case fans assistance.

 

Watercooling them would be your best bet to get good cooling. And even then you might not get the awesome cooling your expecting since your running 2 x GPUs and a CPU with a MAX radiator capacity of (2x) 280mm. But you may be able to go with push+pull on the front radiator to help cooling of the loop and the motherboard.

 

Anyway I'd recommend watercooling if money is no object, and since you have 2 GPUs and a nicely themed build I think you might be able to push for it. Not unless your spent from the GPUs...

[Pharixces]

@WoodenMarkerThe AF140 in the back is running at max speeds (dont know the exact RPM's out of the top of my head). The front noctua's i tested with full RPM's and with silent, didn't really make much difference to me.

The top fan's of the kraken run on a performance to liquid temp ratio, so fairly weak.

 

I hope this gives some insight.

[Pharixces]

Also, what i dont get is that the same setup, but then with a H100i ran alright in my Antec P280. That is, i ran it and slammed in the 2 cards and didn't notice any thermal throttling and certainly no BSOD's which im getting right now. Could the case volume be another thing to consider as well?

 

I could upload pics of my previous build for refference?

[LogicalDrm]

3 hours ago, Pharixces said:

@WoodenMarkerThe AF140 in the back is running at max speeds (dont know the exact RPM's out of the top of my head). The front noctua's i tested with full RPM's and with silent, didn't really make much difference to me.

The top fan's of the kraken run on a performance to liquid temp ratio, so fairly weak.

 

I hope this gives some insight.

 

Your fans are connected to mobo, right? Why not check rpm with software and compare. You can also have better control with mobo over them, like increasing speed where needed.

 

3 hours ago, Pharixces said:

Also, what i dont get is that the same setup, but then with a H100i ran alright in my Antec P280. That is, i ran it and slammed in the 2 cards and didn't notice any thermal throttling and certainly no BSOD's which im getting right now. Could the case volume be another thing to consider as well?

 

I could upload pics of my previous build for refference?

 

What were temps in previous setup then? And what are BSODs saying? Its bit odd to get those for GPUs overheating.

[Pharixces]

I know Its weird to get them overheating, Im not Getting this either. Only thing I can think of is in sheer volume size difference of the main compartment (since the psu area is shrouded). 

Also I did some tests with he mobo controlling the Rpm. Heck I even connected the intake fans to the gpu that got the most hot, since it has a fan header as well that controls fans depending on heat. 

 

I didnt perform form any gpu temp tests on my last build, but CPU temps where around the same in a push config. All I know is that the fans in the gpu's where barely running loud whilst gaming. And that I didn't have any issues heat wise. Also the intakes on my old setup where scythe 800rpm fixed SP fans. I took the noctuas up to max without difference. 

 

The bsod sod I got was on the nvdispkrnl believe. I can double check on that since i got it logged. But if I run either one card in single mode cool, I don't have the issue. So I sorta concluded it was he heat doing it (since the setup sounded like it was taking off)

 

thanks you guys for taking time to read all this and comment. Much appreciated!

 

edit: added some pics of the old setup. 

[Liam-Wabbit]

what are those plastic things on the right side of the case next to the gpu's ?
Are those fans or locks to hold the hard disks in place ?
It looks like you have 1 120mm fan blowing air right at the cards in the old case to me ?
You might benefit from turning the power supply upside down , so the sticker at the bottom and the fan at the top ?
Removing the shroud that hides the powersupply compartment from the rest of the case would work , you might not need to buy a new case. maybe making a bracket to hold a 120mm fan right next to the gpus like you had in the old case ? try that (cheaper to buy a bracket than to buy a new case) 
any way , i hope it works out  
 

[Pharixces]

Those where intake fans. I had a 2x pull/ pull system in the case. 2 120mm scythes pulling air in through the front, through the drive cages and another set of 120mm scythes after the drive cages puling air out again blowing against the gpu's.

 

removing the shroud of the case would mean that i had to dremel it out. im not too keen about doing that to a brand new case. but if it would help cooling my rig i would switch cases and sell this one off again.

 

edit: i tried turning down the RPM's of the intake fans to a standard DC fan curve (not PWM). also i set my kraken to performance mode and that seemed to keep my main card at a max of 85 degrees (just 1 or 2 degrees shy of thermal throttling) and my bottom card a steady 73 degrees. I tested this with a few runs of unigine heaven benchmark and furmark. 

Furmark seemed to drive the cards the hottest at a constant load of 85%.

[Liam-Wabbit]

6 minutes ago, Pharixces said:

Those where intake fans. I had a 2x pull/ pull system in the case. 2 120mm scythes pulling air in through the front, through the drive cages and another set of 120mm scythes after the drive cages puling air out again blowing against the gpu's.

 

removing the shroud of the case would mean that i had to dremel it out. im not too keen about doing that to a brand new case. but if it would help cooling my rig i would switch cases and sell this one off again.

 

edit: i tried turning down the RPM's of the intake fans to a standard DC fan curve (not PWM). also i set my kraken to performance mode and that seemed to keep my main card at a max of 85 degrees (just 1 or 2 degrees shy of thermal throttling) and my bottom card a steady 73 degrees. I tested this with a few runs of unigine heaven benchmark and furmark. 

Furmark seemed to drive the cards the hottest at a constant load of 85%.

I found a way of doing it . you need 2 L shape brackets spray them black and fix one side of the l shape to the fans and the other to the motherboard tray. This will place a 120mm fan where you had one in your old case and with out compromising the look. you might have to drill 2 holes in the mother board tray to mount the l shape brackets. you wont damage the look by doing this ( just make sure you cover the motherboard before drilling (or take it out) so you don't get bits of metal on the components while drilling (dremel works well) you could find a nice RGB led fan for there , would look good  

[ravenshrike]

Try flipping all fans to intake and tape off the grill above the rear fan. It will give you immense positive pressure but should at least force as much fresh air past the graphics cards as possible. You could also try removing the rubber grommets on the PSU shroud.

[Pharixces]

@Liam-Wabbit that might be worth a shot. I have plenty of holes at the backplate where the screws for the drive cages went! I'll bend some spare metal parts as to mount the fan too. 

 

@ravenshrike that's also worth looking into. I've been wondering myself, and googling the night away, as to weather I should lower the rpms of the rear fan with a limiter so it would suck less air out in the top. But turning them around is a small task. Except for the CPU fans, they are horribly inconveniently placed and turning them around would mean disassembling the rad at the top. But I will look into it tomorrow for sure! It's close to 2am here  

[Pharixces]

Reporting back again. 

 

I havent finished jury rigging a fan behind the graphics cards, but i've been playing with the fan setup a bit.

 

I don't know if this means anything, but i took out my rear 140mm fan and the temps didn't change at all. Not CPU wise, not GPU wise. Does that mean that air isn't reaching the back of the case, eventhough there are 3 Noctua static pressure fans pushing in? I even upped the RPM's of the noctua's, just to see if it made any real significant changes, it didnt.  Or could it be that the rear AF140MM isn't doing a good job at sucking air out?

 

Hope you guys can make any sense out of this cause i am puzzled by it. My last build was soo easy cool-wise that i practicly put the fan setup together on gut feeling.  

[Liam-Wabbit]

4 hours ago, Pharixces said:

Reporting back again. 

 

I havent finished jury rigging a fan behind the graphics cards, but i've been playing with the fan setup a bit.

 

I don't know if this means anything, but i took out my rear 140mm fan and the temps didn't change at all. Not CPU wise, not GPU wise. Does that mean that air isn't reaching the back of the case, eventhough there are 3 Noctua static pressure fans pushing in? I even upped the RPM's of the noctua's, just to see if it made any real significant changes, it didnt.  Or could it be that the rear AF140MM isn't doing a good job at sucking air out?

 

Hope you guys can make any sense out of this cause i am puzzled by it. My last build was soo easy cool-wise that i practicly put the fan setup together on gut feeling.  

Just thought it might change the direction of the cooling some what, sorry it didn't work.
The only difference i can see between your old case and the new one is the old case had a 120mm fan directed a the GPU's and the fan only being a inch of two from the graphic cards it's self. Judging by what you said in your comments , this seems to have a directs effect on the temp of the SLI GPU setup. My 1 card use to run at about 75c and I wasn't happy with that so i bought a card with hybrid cooling (watercooling) and this run between 40c-65c. 65c was a stress test with MSI kombuster. the air cooled card would reach 80+c with the stress test  

can only really suggest anything else other than jury rigging  the same distance as your old case. maybe moving the bottom card further away from the top card, though that would mean losing the RGB sli connector and I don't even know if your board has another 16x slot below to allow you do do that ? though you can get 16x slot ribbon cables to allow you to do this. Water cooling would be the best options but i do understand why you're not happy doing this and would end up costing you about £200 on water blocks ect.

I'm going to buy a second hand 980 or 980 ti and I have a bracket for my old corsair sealed 140mm radiator.
Just because i know how hot card can get under air cooling. not only that, cooler the card runs the longer they seem to last ( well just something i find)  
  

[Pharixces]

Thanks @Liam-Wabbit, it just seems that, what various reviewers already stated, that de coolermaster mastercase 6 is a hard case to get a decent airflow in with a SLI setup.

 

This weekend i'm going to try and change the back fan to a SP one and see if i can create some decent suction at the back, and if that helps.

 

Also, just for testing purposes, i'll try the method of jurry rigging the fan behind the GPU's.

 

And if all fails, i'll just have to look for a different case and sell this one off again. My eye already fell on the HAF H500P, which seems like a MoFo case airflow-wise. (but seeing as i make the wrong judgements in my current build, i could be wrong :P)

[Liam-Wabbit]

6 hours ago, Pharixces said:

Thanks @Liam-Wabbit, it just seems that, what various reviewers already stated, that de coolermaster mastercase 6 is a hard case to get a decent airflow in with a SLI setup.

 

This weekend i'm going to try and change the back fan to a SP one and see if i can create some decent suction at the back, and if that helps.

 

Also, just for testing purposes, i'll try the method of jurry rigging the fan behind the GPU's.

 

And if all fails, i'll just have to look for a different case and sell this one off again. My eye already fell on the HAF H500P, which seems like a MoFo case airflow-wise. (but seeing as i make the wrong judgements in my current build, i could be wrong :P)

time being , i would just leave the side panel off and aim a desk fan at it, just till you get your new case 
maybe go into the setting and select your bottom GPU as your main GPU when games don't play in sli mode

[Pharixces]

True, But thats also a weird thing. I did change the sli order and that just shifted the temps from the main to bottom card. 

But games that don't scale, i just play on single card for now. But I still have a few fans to use so I'll report back tomorrow. 

 

Thanks again for your help guys.

 

EDIT: well, i believe this build is cursed. In the sense that no matter what i do, temps wont budge. You could say its atleast stable

I took my fan setup out of my antec case and used the same fan, at the same distance to the videocards and let it blow at the graphics cards. I even got the height right. I ran the same tests again and still the same temps on the GPU's...... exactly the same. 

 

I know start to think it's just an ambient thing going on in the case which i can't control by moving air.