Flushed rad a million times - stuff still comes out, help

[Ardox]

I am building a new pc including a new water cooling loop and decided to reuse my two rads from the old build (1 Alphacool NexXoS XT45 Full copper and 1 Alphacool NexXoS XT45 Full copper 120mm). I have now had it running in a small loop with a citric acid solution and flushed it like a million times (I have actually lost track of how many times I've done it) with distilled water that I have heated to about 70-80 degrees celcius, but stuff just KEEPS comming out. The rad is about 5 years old and I initially ran some EK red coolant but swapped to pure distilled water years ago. The gunk that comes out almost looks like metal so I am starting to think that maybe the inside of the radiator is done and it's time for a new one? I am seriously starting to lose faith that I can get the flushed water to come out clean.... Please take a look at the pictures and if possible tell me what's going on

 

[intender]

Galvanic corrosion.  I am assuming your waterblocks were made out of aluminum.  You can probably eventually flush most of it out, but that is just part of watercooling.  Unless everything in your system is one type of metal this stuff happens. 

[zMeul]

that rad's insides looks corroded as fuck

you should do a chemical flush

[Ardox]

So what do you guys propose? Can it be cleaned with a chemical flush and how do I approach this? I got vinegar acid ~32% that I can use with water? Or am I better off buying a new rad since this is a completly new loop? 

The loop consisted of a Swiftech Apogee HD, the rads, an mcp655 pump and a 580 direct cu ii waterblock from EK.. I think the block for the graphics card could have been aluminium

[Ardox]

I decided on getting new rads so I don't have to bother with. Thanks for the replies

[0ld_Chicken]

49 minutes ago, Ardox said:

I decided on getting new rads so I don't have to bother with. Thanks for the replies

I would flush them with Mayhem's Blitz, they don't look that bad IMO.  

 

Most new rads will probably have just as much gunk in them and need to be cleaned thoroughly just like these ones.

[W-L]

3 hours ago, Ardox said:

I am building a new pc including a new water cooling loop and decided to reuse my two rads from the old build (1 Alphacool NexXoS XT45 Full copper and 1 Alphacool NexXoS XT45 Full copper 120mm). I have now had it running in a small loop with a citric acid solution and flushed it like a million times (I have actually lost track of how many times I've done it) with distilled water that I have heated to about 70-80 degrees celcius, but stuff just KEEPS comming out. The rad is about 5 years old and I initially ran some EK red coolant but swapped to pure distilled water years ago. The gunk that comes out almost looks like metal so I am starting to think that maybe the inside of the radiator is done and it's time for a new one? I am seriously starting to lose faith that I can get the flushed water to come out clean.... Please take a look at the pictures and if possible tell me what's going on

That actually isn't that bad, if it was galvanic corrosion with aluminum you won't have any thin cross section of copper left so it's most likely just heavy oxidization. As said you will probably want to use an aggressive cleaner like the blitz kit or an acid etch which achieves the same result to clean any contaminates or gunk in the rad. Try and high concentration of vinegar that can also achieves a similar result first as you have that on hand. 

[Ardox]

17 minutes ago, W-L said:

That actually isn't that bad, if it was galvanic corrosion with aluminum you won't have any thin cross section of copper left so it's most likely just heavy oxidization. As said you will probably want to use an aggressive cleaner like the blitz kit or an acid etch which achieves the same result to clean any contaminates or gunk in the rad. Try and high concentration of vinegar that can also achieves a similar result first as you have that on hand. 

How much vinegar would be too much? I assume the 32% could eat the inside?

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Ardox said:

How much vinegar would be too much? I assume the 32% could eat the inside?

As long as it's not for a long period of time it would be ok, but I would dilute it fairly heavily. We usually recommend to dilute even regular 5% vinegar for cleaning. 

[Ardox]

31 minutes ago, W-L said:

As long as it's not for a long period of time it would be ok, but I would dilute it fairly heavily. We usually recommend to dilute even regular 5% vinegar for cleaning. 

How about a new rad? I decided to order two EK rads but those need to be cleaned as well. Heating up some demineralized water, filling the rad partly and giving it a good shake a few times, would that be sufficient?

[W-L]

Just now, Ardox said:

How about a new rad? I decided to order two EK rads but those need to be cleaned as well. Heating up some demineralized water, filling the rad partly and giving it a good shake a few times, would that be sufficient?

Yes I would do it about half a dozen times, you can use regular tap water for flushing just be sure to do a final few rinses with distilled water to ensure it removes any remaining contaminates. 

[Ardox]

Just now, W-L said:

Yes I would do it about half a dozen times, you can use regular tap water for flushing just be sure to do a final few rinses with distilled water to ensure it removes any remaining contaminates. 

The tap water is obviously the easier solution but there is just so much contradiction on whether it is harmful.. I guess if flushed with distilled water afterwards it shouldn't be a problem?

[W-L]

3 minutes ago, Ardox said:

The tap water is obviously the easier solution but there is just so much contradiction on whether it is harmful.. I guess if flushed with distilled water afterwards it shouldn't be a problem?

It's fairly common to do that, I've done it with all my loops without problem as long as it gets properly rinsed out with distilled water at the end to get rid of minerals and anything part of the tap water. 

[Ardox]

19 hours ago, W-L said:

It's fairly common to do that, I've done it with all my loops without problem as long as it gets properly rinsed out with distilled water at the end to get rid of minerals and anything part of the tap water. 

I see a bunch of people recommending to flush with a bicarbonate solution after using vinegar. Have you ever heard the ph value being a problem when flushing with vinegar, even after flushing well with distilled water afterwards? My plan is to use a ~3% vinegar acid solution with demi water and letting it sit for like 5 minutes and flushing well afterwards with tap water and then distilled water. If I have to use some neutralizing solution like bicarbonate I think I'll just go with a clean water flush....

 

[0ld_Chicken]

I use baking soda anytime i use vinegar (bicarbonate) based on Mayhem's recommendations.  I haven't had any issues personally either way but i often use blitz instead of vinegar

[Ardox]

51 minutes ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

I use baking soda anytime i use vinegar (bicarbonate) based on Mayhem's recommendations.  I haven't had any issues personally either way but i often use blitz instead of vinegar

Excuse me for asking all these questions, but I just want to do this build the correct way and have peace of mind This is a completely new rad but people report that if I don't do a proper flush with something like a vinegar solution the water can change color from something inside of the radiators and stain tubing etc etc.. So if you don't mind walking me through the process from receiving the new rads to putting em in my loop. I am not sure from about step 3, so please walk me through the stages.
1. Flush the rads with hot running tap water for a little while.
2. Boil demi water and add vinegar acid. The vinegar acid I got is a clear 32% which I intend to do 1 to 10 with demi water so I got a ~3% solution and leave this in the rad for about 5 minutes.
3. This is where I suppose I flush with tap water again?
4. Flush with demi water?
5. Now use bicarbonate but please explain this step thoroughly since I have no idea if I am supposed to mix with demi water, fill the rad and let it soak? And how much bicarbonate do I need for a liter of water?
6. Finally do a couple of rinses with destilled water I assume? 

This is the bicarbonate I found in the house which I assume is what I need?  

THANKS FOR THE HELP BTW  

[W-L]

3 hours ago, Ardox said:

I see a bunch of people recommending to flush with a bicarbonate solution after using vinegar. Have you ever heard the ph value being a problem when flushing with vinegar, even after flushing well with distilled water afterwards? My plan is to use a ~3% vinegar acid solution with demi water and letting it sit for like 5 minutes and flushing well afterwards with tap water and then distilled water. If I have to use some neutralizing solution like bicarbonate I think I'll just go with a clean water flush....

 

It doesn't hurt, personally I flush my rads by hooking it up to tap water to neutralize and rinse out any remaining vinegar solution. That list above sounds good to me, after flushing with the vinegar you can use the bicarbonate solution and a few more rinses after to ensure nothing is left of the bicarbonate will do. After you'll want to do a final rinse with distilled.

[Ardox]

Just now, W-L said:

It doesn't hurt, personally I flush my rads by hooking it up to tap water to neutralize and rinse out any remaining vinegar solution. That list above sounds good to me, after flushing with the vinegar you can use the bicarbonate solution and a few more rinses after to ensure nothing is left of the bicarbonate will do. After you'll want to do a final rinse with distilled.

Any chance you can tell me the water to bicarbonate ratio? Also do I leave it in for a while or just give it a shake?

[W-L]

9 minutes ago, Ardox said:

Any chance you can tell me the water to bicarbonate ratio? Also do I leave it in for a while or just give it a shake?

Shouldn't need much really maybe a table spoon per liter it's just to help neutralize any acid remaining in the rad. Give it a good shake and leave it for a couple of mins before rinsing it all back out. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by W-L

[0ld_Chicken]

It's no problem at all!  W-L's got good advice here.  I'm not sure on vinegar concentration but I think that should be fine at the ratio you mentioned.  also I believe that is the bicarbonate you are looking for 

 

I generally leave the vinegar solution in for a few hours, shaking vigorously several times over and sometimes i'll even run the rad under hot water to heat it up again after it cools.  I've heard people say a few minutes and I've heard to leave them overnight so I compromise.  I've got a stack of dirty rads and some blitz pt1 coming this week, maybe I'll do a comparison and see what happens. 

 

[Ardox]

4 hours ago, 0ld_Chicken said:

It's no problem at all!  W-L's got good advice here.  I'm not sure on vinegar concentration but I think that should be fine at the ratio you mentioned.  also I believe that is the bicarbonate you are looking for 

 

I generally leave the vinegar solution in for a few hours, shaking vigorously several times over and sometimes i'll even run the rad under hot water to heat it up again after it cools.  I've heard people say a few minutes and I've heard to leave them overnight so I compromise.  I've got a stack of dirty rads and some blitz pt1 coming this week, maybe I'll do a comparison and see what happens. 

 

Cool, thanks! How much bicarbonate to water ratio should i use after the vinegar? 1 table spoon to 1 liter or? 

[0ld_Chicken]

5 minutes ago, Ardox said:

Cool, thanks! How much bicarbonate to water ratio should i use after the vinegar? 1 table spoon to 1 liter or? 

That should be fine.  Just something to neutralize the acids from the vinegar.  If you mix it well there shouldn't be any solids left in the water