Multi camera live streaming

[Pony080905]

I'm not sure is this is the proper section. I need to figure out how to connect two canon 5D mark III to a laptop to live stream using obs, I've looked into the blackmagic ultrastudio but it connects using thunderbolt which the laptop doesn't have. Is it even possible and if so what equipment is needed, I've also got a canon  XF300 if that could be used aswell

[Not_Sean]

Any reason why you would use the 5D, thats a epic camera and OBS would anyways reduce the quality for streaming, I'd recommend just grabbing two HD webcams from logitech (not the cheapy ones) and jsut add each as an video feed in OBS, might end up been a bit easier. 

[Pony080905]

4 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Any reason why you would use the 5D, thats a epic camera and OBS would anyways reduce the quality for streaming, I'd recommend just grabbing two HD webcams from logitech (not the cheapy ones) and jsut add each as an video feed in OBS, might end up been a bit easier. 

5Ds are the best cameras we've got, we've also got a T6i, T5i, multiple T3i's and a T2i

[Not_Sean]

Just now, Pony080905 said:

5Ds are the best cameras we've got, we've also got a T6i, T5i, multiple T3i's and a T2i

hahah yeah they are up there as some of the best in the world, the problem is they too good, you will never be able to properly show off there quality on a stream, To stream smooth it will reduce their quality to that of a high end webcam, and setting up the webcams will be way easier thats why I suggest going for them. 

[Pony080905]

2 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

hahah yeah they are up there as some of the best in the world, the problem is they too good, you will never be able to properly show off there quality on a stream, To stream smooth it will reduce their quality to that of a high end webcam, and setting up the webcams will be way easier thats why I suggest going for them. 

Is there wireless webcams that have a decent range, I need to be able to move around at events and people not trip and die on cables

[Not_Sean]

Just now, Pony080905 said:

Is there wireless webcams that have a decent range, I need to be able to move around at events and people not trip and die on cables

ooohhhh should have said this in first place. now that I would have no idea.. Best bet is prob to use a high end cellphone as thats streaming and camera all in one, just pack some battery packs. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

27 minutes ago, Pony080905 said:

I'm not sure is this is the proper section. I need to figure out how to connect two canon 5D mark III to a laptop to live stream using obs, I've looked into the blackmagic ultrastudio but it connects using thunderbolt which the laptop doesn't have. Is it even possible and if so what equipment is needed, I've also got a canon  XF300 if that could be used aswell

The ideal solution would be to use a switcher.  But the cheapest one I know would cost you around $1000.  How about using two USB capture cards, one for each camera?

 

12 minutes ago, Pony080905 said:

Is there wireless webcams that have a decent range, I need to be able to move around at events and people not trip and die on cables

For ultra mobility, you'd probably want to use a wireless video transmission system.  Such as a Paralinx ACE HDMI transmitter and receiver set for each camera.  I think this year at NAB there were some other companies announcing cheaper wireless transmission systems, though I'm not sure what the latency their systems have.  The Paralinx ACE SDI kit I use has 0 latency.

 

This one for example, I'm not sure you can use it in a multicam setup.

http://nofilmschool.com/2017/04/freecast-delivers-video-streaming-ios-devicesr-filmmakers

[peabody505]

On 5/3/2017 at 4:33 PM, Not_Sean said:

hahah yeah they are up there as some of the best in the world, the problem is they too good, you will never be able to properly show off there quality on a stream, To stream smooth it will reduce their quality to that of a high end webcam, and setting up the webcams will be way easier thats why I suggest going for them. 

I disagree. The 5D will give you an immense increase in quality compared to a webcam, and it'll handle ISO noise on a far superior level. Sure you might not be getting the max performance, but even after compression it's going to look far better than a webcam. If he's got them already, I say go for it. Whether you should buy one exclusively for streaming is a different question all together.

 

To answer OP's original question, I've had great success using multiple Razer Ripsaw capture cards capturing the HDMI output of my cameras. Delay is almost imperceptible beyond what the camera is doing itself. Quality is near that of a video recorded in-camera.

 

For your wireless needs, I'd recommend the Aputure Array Trans. It seems like a great budget option although admittedly I have not used it myself. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1221495-REG/aputure_v_at_array_trans_wireless_video.html

[Pony080905]

On 5/5/2017 at 11:17 PM, peabody505 said:

I disagree. The 5D will give you an immense increase in quality compared to a webcam, and it'll handle ISO noise on a far superior level. Sure you might not be getting the max performance, but even after compression it's going to look far better than a webcam. If he's got them already, I say go for it. Whether you should buy one exclusively for streaming is a different question all together.

 

To answer OP's original question, I've had great success using multiple Razer Ripsaw capture cards capturing the HDMI output of my cameras. Delay is almost imperceptible beyond what the camera is doing itself. Quality is near that of a video recorded in-camera.

 

For your wireless needs, I'd recommend the Aputure Array Trans. It seems like a great budget option although admittedly I have not used it myself. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1221495-REG/aputure_v_at_array_trans_wireless_video.html

Thank You, the solution we're going with is similar to your suggestion, we are getting two AVerMedia live gamer portable lite capture cards and connecting them to two video cameras, the Canon XF300 and Sony HVR-V1U. If the event we are live streaming goes well we'll look into getting a wireless HDMI system to the HVR-V1U since it is lighter so we can have a fully mobile camera.

[AkiraDaarkst]

On 5/6/2017 at 3:17 AM, peabody505 said:

For your wireless needs, I'd recommend the Aputure Array Trans. It seems like a great budget option although admittedly I have not used it myself. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1221495-REG/aputure_v_at_array_trans_wireless_video.html

This is a piece of junk.  It requires the receiver and transmitter to be in direct line of sight and oriented towards each other in a certain fixed position.  If the transmitter was mounted on a camera that was moving around a room, it stops working.  It even loses signal if someone walks between the transmitter and receiver.

 

For budget, there is something like this.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/908055-REG/idx_cw_1_wireless_hdmi_transmitter.html

 

But I personally prefer Paralinx or Teradek wireless systems, more reliable.

 

This is the kit I personally own and use and I can attest to it being a very reliable product.  The signal can even penetrate a few walls and reach the receiver located a couple of rooms away.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1266821-REG/paralinx_10_1281_ace_sdi_1_2_with.html

[mjc4wilton]

IDK if this has already been solved. I personally would use what you have and not buy a new webcam specifically for streaming, plus using a capture card to stream unlocks many more possibilities. Take a look at the AVIO capture cards for that part of things. As for the wireless HDMI I would actually use a Blackmagic Teranex IP with a small HDMI - SDI converter (or similar IP video streaming) You could then do some IT Trickery and use a 802.11ac to 10/100/1000 wireless reciever and have your own network on your streaming laptop. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 hours ago, mjc4wilton said:

As for the wireless HDMI I would actually use a Blackmagic Teranex IP with a small HDMI - SDI converter (or similar IP video streaming) You could then do some IT Trickery and use a 802.11ac to 10/100/1000 wireless reciever and have your own network on your streaming laptop. 

How will this keep the camera portable enough to be treated as a roaming camera?

IT Trickery?  How will the video signal from the camera be converted and then sent to a wireless receiver/router?

 

Wireless video transmitters exist so that (for example) one can have a camera mounted on the shoulder, walk around without any cables attached or entangled, and send the video signal to a central workstation/recorder/broadcast station.  But wireless video transmitters are not cheap, especially if you want low latency and long signal reach.

[mjc4wilton]

11 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

How will this keep the camera portable enough to be treated as a roaming camera?

IT Trickery?  How will the video signal from the camera be converted and then sent to a wireless receiver/router?

 

Wireless video transmitters exist so that (for example) one can have a camera mounted on the shoulder, walk around without any cables attached or entangled, and send the video signal to a central workstation/recorder/broadcast station.  But wireless video transmitters are not cheap, especially if you want low latency and long signal reach.

Camera side: Camera -> Teranex (IP Video Converter) -> Wireless reciever

Laptop Side: Router -> Teranex (Convert it back) -> AVIO Video Grabber -> Laptop & OBS

 

Not the best solution but a lot cheaper than many solutions. Hopefully that clarified what I was envisioning. You could probably use something like a Raspberry PI with a capture card and wireless dongle to do the same thing although I have not seen anyone do it and have no clue how someone would as my experience with linux is limited.

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 hours ago, mjc4wilton said:

Camera side: Camera -> Teranex (IP Video Converter) -> Wireless reciever

Laptop Side: Router -> Teranex (Convert it back) -> AVIO Video Grabber -> Laptop & OBS

 

Not the best solution but a lot cheaper than many solutions. Hopefully that clarified what I was envisioning. You could probably use something like a Raspberry PI with a capture card and wireless dongle to do the same thing although I have not seen anyone do it and have no clue how someone would as my experience with linux is limited.

That's stupid and impractical.  You run a wireless video transmission system for certain reasons, such as:

• running cables is impractical, like because the camera is mounted on a gimbal
• the distance between camera and "receiver" is too far to run cables
• you want the camera to be very mobile and not "tethered" to some hardware

The Teranex boxes cost about $500 each, and they are AC powered or via PoE+.  And they can't be mounted on a camera easily for the camera to be mobile enough.

 

A simple wireless HDMI system like the IDX model I mentioned previously is simpler to setup and smaller, lighter to mount on a camera.  And this system will be cheaper than the sum of having to buy a Teranex box for the camera and another for the receiver.

[peabody505]

On 5/12/2017 at 6:38 PM, AkiraDaarkst said:

This is a piece of junk.  It requires the receiver and transmitter to be in direct line of sight and oriented towards each other in a certain fixed position.  If the transmitter was mounted on a camera that was moving around a room, it stops working.  It even loses signal if someone walks between the transmitter and receiver.

Really? I admit I haven't tried it personally but I've heard nothing but good things from those I know who have...

[AkiraDaarkst]

11 hours ago, peabody505 said:

Really? I admit I haven't tried it personally but I've heard nothing but good things from those I know who have...

It's an ok product if the receiver and transmitter are in fixed spots.  But if one of them is on a mobile device...

[mjc4wilton]

18 hours ago, peabody505 said:

Really? I admit I haven't tried it personally but I've heard nothing but good things from those I know who have...

"Featuring up to 262' of line of sight transmission range" "Aputure recommends that the corresponding angles between the sloped edge of the transmitter and receiver remain less than 15° for optimal reception." "Aputure notes that there will be dropout between transmitter and receiver at approximately 124.5'. However, the picture will automatically restore itself when the transmitter and receiver are no longer at that distance." Just to quote a few things on their page

[AkiraDaarkst]

2 hours ago, mjc4wilton said:

"Featuring up to 262' of line of sight transmission range" "Aputure recommends that the corresponding angles between the sloped edge of the transmitter and receiver remain less than 15° for optimal reception." "Aputure notes that there will be dropout between transmitter and receiver at approximately 124.5'. However, the picture will automatically restore itself when the transmitter and receiver are no longer at that distance." Just to quote a few things on their page

It's funny, they claim to have a 262' range but will have a signal drop out at 124.5'.

 

21 hours ago, peabody505 said:

Really? I admit I haven't tried it personally but I've heard nothing but good things from those I know who have...

Apart from this signal dropout issue that this particular product may have, the concept of this product is not actually junk.  It's just designed for very particular use cases while a product like the Paralinx system I have is very versatile.

 

The Aputure Array system or any other similar system (either from the same brand or a different brand) are limited to where the mobility of the camera is limited.  If you were holding the camera in your hand or shoulder mounting it or holding the camera in any other way and walking around the room, the Aputure Array would not be the ideal wireless video system.  But if the camera was say permanently mounted on a ceiling or in a fixed location (even if the camera itself is on a pan/tilt head) you can mount the transmitter of the Aputure Array on a spot next to the camera that's not moving.  For example, remote cameras mounted around a basketball court to film different angles of the game.

 

It's the "directional antenna" and "line of sight" that limits the use of the Aputure Array.  The Paralinx system I own, or any other similar system, the antenna sends an omni-directional signal and I can be walking around with my camera or the director's monitor the receiver is attached to can be moved around without loss of signal (as long as it is within range).  I can even have walls separating the receiver and transmitter as long as they are not too thick.

[mama_fluxus]

On 5/3/2017 at 4:22 PM, Pony080905 said:

I'm not sure is this is the proper section. I need to figure out how to connect two canon 5D mark III to a laptop to live stream using obs, I've looked into the blackmagic ultrastudio but it connects using thunderbolt which the laptop doesn't have. Is it even possible and if so what equipment is needed, I've also got a canon  XF300 if that could be used aswell

So I've been livestreaming weddings with Canon 70D's for a year or so now. Canon doesn't want to support livestreaming and doesn't give high res clean HDMI in most cases so you have to move to 3rd party software.

 

I've tried several and by far the best is DigiCamControl, http://digicamcontrol.com. It can be a bit confusing to set up the first few times but I've never had the software crash even a single time which is invaluable for a live event. Also, you will need to buy a licence for each camera you run I believe, but I've never run 2 cams off one computer so I'm not sure.

 

You plug the camera into the laptop over USB, I suggest teathertools cables and adapters with jerkstoppers, and then digicam will create a digital video source that OBS can recognize.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want help setting it up.

[mama_fluxus]

On 5/12/2017 at 6:38 PM, AkiraDaarkst said:

This is a piece of junk.  It requires the receiver and transmitter to be in direct line of sight and oriented towards each other in a certain fixed position.  If the transmitter was mounted on a camera that was moving around a room, it stops working.  It even loses signal if someone walks between the transmitter and receiver.

 

For budget, there is something like this.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/908055-REG/idx_cw_1_wireless_hdmi_transmitter.html

 

But I personally prefer Paralinx or Teradek wireless systems, more reliable.

 

This is the kit I personally own and use and I can attest to it being a very reliable product.  The signal can even penetrate a few walls and reach the receiver located a couple of rooms away.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1266821-REG/paralinx_10_1281_ace_sdi_1_2_with.html

Id like to add that most of these transmitters are made for monitors where dropped frames aren't important. The Aputure one is a piece of junk in my experience, it drops so many frames at any distance over 15 feet.

 

Its important to have a high quality signal when transmitting the footage you are actually recording or streaming. 

 

I'd recommend anything made by terradeck, that's what we use on live TV cameras in basketball stadiums for ESPN. I'm not sure of your price range but check out the Teradek Bolt 500.

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

Id like to add that most of these transmitters are made for monitors where dropped frames aren't important. The Aputure one is a piece of junk in my experience, it drops so many frames at any distance over 15 feet.

Yes.

 

3 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

Its important to have a high quality signal when transmitting the footage you are actually recording or streaming. 

 

I'd recommend anything made by terradeck, that's what we use on live TV cameras in basketball stadiums for ESPN. I'm not sure of your price range but check out the Teradek Bolt 500.

Or Paralinx.

 

This is not the first topic where someone has talked about wireless video transmission, and in all the ones I've seen here people do not really understand what they really need in a wireless system.  They just want "low cost" solutions but most budget friendly solutions have either high latency or short signal reach.  A good system can cost as much as a pretty decent gaming/workstation.

[Roberwt]

11 hours ago, mama_fluxus said:

I'd recommend anything made by terradeck, that's what we use on live TV cameras in basketball stadiums for ESPN. I'm not sure of your price range but check out the Teradek Bolt 500.

And even those have range issues, interference and more latency over longer distances

[AkiraDaarkst]

3 hours ago, Roberwt said:

And even those have range issues, interference and more latency over longer distances

They sell different models for different ranges, like the Teradek Bolt 3000 is rated for 3000 ft distance even if in the real world it doesn't actually reach 3000 ft.  The main thing is that Teradek and Paralinx products are more reliable than most.  And anything wireless is susceptible to interference.