C# .NET instead of SQL?

[Guest]

I'm interested in heading into Backend development. (Learning C# by programming games with Unity 3D the game engine)

According to this article:

https://logz.io/blog/full-stack-developer/

I have to know

Quote

Python, .Net, Ruby, Java, and PHP

and a personal message from a user on this forum claimed to program backend with SQL.

 

I was curious to know if I could get into backend knowing C# and perhaps C++. I don't have the knowledge to get multiple languages to work together. (Saying I have to get the knowledge with a potential tutorial/documentation would be an answer.)

 

I am mostly aiming at just getting a job. I love programming and C# is by far my favorite language of all time. I was given a few coding challenges for getting into backend, but I'm curious to see what Backend Developers program with. Eli The Computer Guy on YouTube says that every company is different, and personally always recommends PHP for any general programming.

 

If you are a "Full Stack" developer, how long did it take you to get there? Are you working at a bigger company, or are you the company?

 

This is mainly targeted for answers about full stack and the disciplines within the stack. However however however, if you are in a related programming environment, please give input, or if you know people within a related programming environment, please provide input in a comment below, or PM to me.

 

Besides the idea that databases have to be operated by programs, OOP (object oriented programming) languages seem to have the potential to be their own data based programs, and C# has a large amount of data manipulation API. If C# is NOT used for backend development, please let me know because that is the picture I have in my head. If it is used for front and back let me know, or if it is only for front end don't hesitate to correct me.

[reniat]

Full disclosure: I don't work with web dev and have almost 0 knowledge about that space. I work on Java desktop apps, and visual C++ desktop applications, as well as the servers behind them. This is still "backend and front end", but it might look very different than a web stack would.

 

I would avoid learning php as your primary language. It's got a low barrier to entry, and it's still used in many places, but it's not nearly as in demand as say java, python, or ruby when it comes to modern high quality websites. Things like node.js are the new shiny, and php is a bit of an older, more legacy technology (again, i'm not a web dev so this is not coming from a good first hand source). 

 

I would focus instead on a true strongly types OOP language. C# is good, and Java is almost always in demand as the current go-to OOP language. In my opinion it is FAR easier to go from a fully featured OOP language such as these and pick up javascript/php/etc. than it is to learn those pieces and then try to pick up good OOP principles. Plus these languages are good for desktop apps, mobile development, web development, and backend services.

 

Also, I would disagree that php is a good "general programming" language, depending on what you define as general. I would pretty much only use php as web tool, and even then I would sooner use frameworks such as spring MVC (java), django (python), or rails (ruby). And if im making a simple tool for my own purposes like for automation, I'm going either python or C++ (python because it's good for small fast prototyping type stuff, and C++ because it's my favorite language and I always try to do modern C++ when I get a chance to choose).

[reniat]

also, what is it about backend that seems appealing to you? What is it about front end that seems less appealing? What is it about c# that you like? Give that these terms are pretty varied depending on what you're doing, it might be helpful to know why you like them 

[SpaceNugget]

I worked at a very very large software company as a full stack web dev. We primarily used PHP for backend programming, although depending on the existing client infrastructure, we also used Java, Javascript, and ASP on the backend as well. I started to learn how to program very slowly since I was pretty young so its hard to say how long it took to get here, but I started learning in a more structured/disciplined sense about 5 years before I was in that position.

 

In a web sense C# is a backend programming language. This is because its processed on the server not on the client machine.

 

You will most likely need to know SQL as a full stack dev, lots of modern stuff uses nosql databases, but the vast majority of websites still use some form of relational databases. SQL is used in conjunction with another language on the server to retrieve information from a database.

 

Object orientedness has nothing to do with "Databased programs(?)"

Edit: had you confused with someone else.

 

[madknight3]

15 hours ago, fpo said:

I'm interested in heading into Backend development. (Learning C# by programming games with Unity 3D the game engine)

According to this article:

https://logz.io/blog/full-stack-developer/

I have to know

[Python, .Net, Ruby, Java, and PHP]

You only need to know one server side language/framework. In general that might mean your are limited to finding jobs for that specific language/framework but for a popular language/framework that's still a large number of jobs.

 

With that said, it's also not a bad thing to learn more than one. The more languages/frameworks you know, the more jobs you can confidentially apply to. It can also making picking up a new language/framework easier, so you may even feel like applying for jobs in languages/frameworks you've never worked with before. If you can demonstrate you're a good web developer with the languages/frameworks you know and that you can get up and running with a new framework fairly quickly, then that may still land you the job.

 

Even if you choose to learn more than one language/framework, I would still choose one to focus on and know really well. How you choose that language/framework is up to you. You can choose the language/framework you like the most. You can choose the language/framework with the most job postings in the areas you'd like to work. Etc

15 hours ago, fpo said:

and a personal message from a user on this forum claimed to program backend with SQL.

 

Besides the idea that databases have to be operated by programs, OOP (object oriented programming) languages seem to have the potential to be their own data based programs, and C# has a large amount of data manipulation API.

You'll want to learn some SQL for any option you choose since SQL is the default language for querying a relational database (MySql, Sql Server, Oracle, etc).

 

Every language (Python, C#, etc) has APIs for interacting with databases but they are just executing SQL against the database. Sometimes you're writing the SQL that these APIs execute (usually in a hardcoded string), sometimes you're not and the API is generating SQL for you behind the scenes (like with Entity Framework and LINQ), but ultimately it's still SQL and it's good to know.

15 hours ago, fpo said:

I was curious to know if I could get into backend knowing C#

Yes. The primary framework for C# and .NET backend web development is ASP.NET

 

There are four main options for ASP.NET development.

• ASP.NET Web Pages
• ASP.NET Web Forms
• ASP.NET MVC (up to version 5)
• ASP.NET Core

Here's an overview

 

ASP.NET Web Pages is not something I know much about so I'm not sure how much it's used within companies compared to the others. I've never really considered it to be a contender with the other three mentioned, but again, I just don't know much about it or it's use.

 

ASP.NET Web Forms is not very popular for new applications these days, although there are still some companies using it for this, but a lot of older applications that were written with it are still being maintained and updated. Doesn't hurt to know a bit of this if you don't mind working for those companies.

 

ASP.NET MVC is probably currently used the most. This is likely where you should spend most of your focus. I'd also include Web Api in this as it's the most common way to build HTTP APIs in .NET

 

ASP.NET Core is a new rewrite of the ASP.NET framework that was released in 2016 and is continuing to be worked on. Adoption is growing but it's still a baby compared to the 10+ year history of Web Forms and MVC. However this is probably where the future is headed for ASP.NET so I would recommend learning a bit of it as well.

 

TLDR: I'd spend most of your time on ASP.NET MVC 5 and Web Api 2 to start and then get into ASP.NET Core as well. ASP.NET Web Forms is optional.

 

Side note: Pluralsight has a lot of video courses for learning the different ASP.NET options. Sign up for the free Visual Studio Dev Essentials program and some free months of Pluralsight.

 

15 hours ago, fpo said:

I am mostly aiming at just getting a job. I love programming and C# is by far my favorite language of all time. I was given a few coding challenges for getting into backend, but I'm curious to see what Backend Developers program with. Eli The Computer Guy on YouTube says that every company is different, and personally always recommends PHP for any general programming.

PHP is a very widely used language for web development. Possibly the most widely used but I don't have any numbers.

 

Like you said, every company is different. If you have specific companies in mind then find out what they use and learn those. If you don't have any specific companies in mind, but have specific locations in mind, then you may want to look into job postings for those areas to see what languages will give you the best chances. If you don't care about either of the above, then maybe just try to find a job with your favourite languages/frameworks first and if that isn't working out try to expand later.

 

As far as I know, there's no shortage of jobs for each language you mentioned above (Python, .Net, Ruby, Java, and PHP).

15 hours ago, fpo said:

If you are a "Full Stack" developer, how long did it take you to get there? Are you working at a bigger company, or are you the company?

I'm working for a small company that does a variety of .NET development (web apps, desktop apps, mobile apps). Because the team is small, I work on everything. I never set out to be a "full stack" developer, or any type of developer, I just happened to end up doing it.

 

I primarily work with VB.NET, C#, JavaScript and SQL with some HTML and CSS in there too (though another guy at the company tends to do most of the CSS work).

[Guest]

13 hours ago, reniat said:

1. what is it about backend that seems appealing to you? What is it about front end that seems less appealing?

2. What is it about c# that you like?

3. Give that these terms are pretty varied depending on what you're doing, it might be helpful to know why you like them 

1. Backend is appealing because when I program games I'm making the actual application, and configuring things. I may have a subconscious idea that front end is going to be difficult to get a job with but I'm unsure.

 

2. I like C# because of all the different aspects I can utilize. Using C# in Unity I am able to create a class for every different task, neatly organizing my code. I enjoy the ideas of LINQ, Lambda functions. The syntax is appealing to me because I am able to format the code however I want (Similar to Java) where I can decide how to make white space.

 

3. Most of what I'm doing with Unity 3D (Game Engine) was remembering different data types, and using them to describe how the real world works; for instance I made a tech demo I am still working on that remembers the type of magazine, ammo in the Magazine, the bullet in the chamber, and when you shoot an enemy what bullet hit the enemy.

More recently I have been learning AI, and just got some basics of getting AI to detect things. I have further plans to make them smarter, but I program these kinds of things.

 

TL;DR: I find Backend interesting because I like organizing and manipulating data in Unity. I like C# because of the syntax.

12 hours ago, SpaceNugget said:

1. I worked at a very very large software company as a full stack web dev.

 

2. In a web sense C# is a backend programming language. This is because its processed on the server not on the client machine.

 

3. lots of modern stuff uses nosql databases,

 

4. Object orientedness has nothing to do with "Databased programs(?)"

Edit: had you confused with someone else.

 

1. Is it a contract based company? You seem to work with so many different languages, it seems you just upgrade other people's systems.

 

2. Does that mean all languages used for Desktop Development is "backend?"

 

3. is NoSQL a language, or does that mean they don't use a SQL, or does that mean they don't use database languages? (Presuming that I have the right picture of what SQL is.)

 

4. I figured OOP languages COULD be "DataBased Programs" because an object can consist of many different variables.

ie Class Person- String Name, string address, int current balance.

Save the information as a .txt with a semicolon at the end of each line. When reading the information back, store the first string as everything before the semicolon, and so on.

Each log/entry would be a new .txt file.

 

28 minutes ago, madknight3 said:

1. You only need to know one server side language/framework. In general that might mean your are limited to finding jobs for that specific language/framework but for a popular language/framework that's still a large number of jobs.

 

2. You'll want to learn some SQL for any option you choose since SQL is the default language for querying a relational database (MySql, Sql Server, Oracle, etc).

 

3. TLDR: I'd spend most of your time on ASP.NET MVC 5 and Web Api 2 to start and then get into ASP.NET Core as well. ASP.NET Web Forms is optional.

 

4. Sign up for the free Visual Studio Dev Essentials program and some free months of Pluralsight.

 

5. PHP is a very widely used language for web development. Possibly the most widely used but I don't have any numbers. But like you said, every company is different. A lot of companies use other languages. Also, many things vary by location. Where you want to find a job may have more jobs in other languages than PHP. As far as I know, there's no shortage of jobs for each language you mentioned above (Python, .Net, Ruby, Java, and PHP).

 

6. I'm working for a small company that does a variety of .NET development (web apps, desktop apps, mobile apps). Because the team is small, I work on everything. I never set out to be a "full stack" developer, or any type of developer, I just happened to end up doing it.

 

7. I primarily work with VB.NET, C#, JavaScript and SQL with some HTML and CSS in there too (though another guy at the company tends to do most of the CSS work).

1. What would you say is the most in demand framework? Saying you had to pick one, or your top 3 in whatever order. I understand the benefits of learning multiple.

 

2. Are all those SQL languages listed (MySql, Sql Server, Oracle, etc) as close to each other as C, C++, C#, and Java? In generality.

 

3. Is that your predetermined answer to question 1 & 2?

 

4. I have Visual Studio Express 2015. Does that have what I need, or is the link you provided an upgraded/special version for this type of development? ie a sawblade could cut paper, but scissors are more practical.

 

5. I am close to the New York City area, but am willing to go anywhere for jobs. I hear San Francisco is in desperate need for programmers. (There was an article on USA today my storyboarding teacher shared. He's not a programmer.)

 

6. What would be some examples of projects you worked on? Not saying tell me where you work, but for instance did you make things similar to Facebook, flappy bird, so on? I ask because I want to get a better picture of things I may end up working on.

 

7. What languages are the front end, and which ones are the backend in your environment? If languages are used for other disciplines what are they used for in your instances?

[madknight3]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

1. What would you say is the most in demand framework? Saying you had to pick one, or your top 3 in whatever order. I understand the benefits of learning multiple.

 

2. Are all those SQL languages listed (MySql, Sql Server, Oracle, etc) as close to each other as C, C++, C#, and Java? In generality.

 

3. Is that your predetermined answer to question 1 & 2?

 

4. I have Visual Studio Express 2015. Does that have what I need, or is the link you provided an upgraded/special version for this type of development? ie a sawblade could cut paper, but scissors are more practical.

 

5. I am close to the New York City area, but am willing to go anywhere for jobs. I hear San Francisco is in desperate need for programmers. (There was an article on USA today my storyboarding teacher shared. He's not a programmer.)

 

6. What would be some examples of projects you worked on? Not saying tell me where you work, but for instance did you make things similar to Facebook, flappy bird, so on? I ask because I want to get a better picture of things I may end up working on.

 

7. What languages are the front end, and which ones are the backend in your environment? If languages are used for other disciplines what are they used for in your instances?

1. I don't follow the different languages/frameworks closely enough to know which is most in demand. I don't worry too much about that kind of thing.

 

For example using indeed.com (however good that site is)

• Searching ".net" gives around 3200 results for New York City and 1400 for San Francisco.
• Searching "java" gives around 5500 results for New York City and 4050 for San Francisco.
• Searching "php" gives around 1500 results for New York City and 1230 for San Francisco.
• Searching "python" gives around 4200 results for New York City and 3900 for San Francisco.
• etc

Now these aren't exact numbers and they are only from one site. Some of the matches may not be accurate. Some of them will be for positions beyond your experience level. etc. 

 

My point is, there are lots of jobs around for lots of languages and it varies from place to place.

 

2. MySql, Sql Server, and Orcale are all relational databases (there are others as well). SQL is the standard language for interacting with all of them, however they add their own stuff on top of it. So there are some differences. Don't worry too much about that though, the basics are all pretty much the same.

 

3. If you end up choosing to stick with C# and .NET, then that's my recommendation for that. If you choose to go outside of .NET then it won't apply to you.

 

4. It's always good to update if you don't have a reason not to. That way you're sure to keep up with all the latest improvements. Visual Studio 2017 Community is the most up to date. You can run both versions of Visual Studio side by side though so you don't need to uninstall your version to install the new version.

 

Also, in general choose the Community edition over the Express edition unless you have a specific reason not to (like license requirements). The community edition has more features and isn't split up into multiple pieces like the Express editions.

 

Again, this only applies to .NET development. Visual Studio can be used for other languages as well but it's not necessarily the best option. Jetbrains, Eclipse, and many other options exist.

 

5. I'm a Canadian who's never had much interest in living in the US so I've never looked into the big tech cities there. Through looking at job sites, news/blog articles, talking to people in the industry, etc you should be able to find some more specific info. I would expect many different languages to be in high demand though.

 

6. We build software that other companies use that help them manage their business. It includes software to manage their employees, accounting, documents, communication, etc and is tailored more towards their specific use cases. So it's mostly a mixture of software that they use internally and some of which is used by their customers. It's not something that the general public would use and its nothing social media, gaming, or entertainment related.

 

7. For web development, we have HTML, CSS, and JavaScript on the front end. It's the most common setup for front end web development in general. For desktop and mobile applications, .NET stuff tends to use a XML based language, like XAML.

[SpaceNugget]

On 2017-04-07 at 11:09 AM, fpo said:

1. Is it a contract based company? You seem to work with so many different languages, it seems you just upgrade other people's systems.

 

2. Does that mean all languages used for Desktop Development is "backend?"

 

3. is NoSQL a language, or does that mean they don't use a SQL, or does that mean they don't use database languages? (Presuming that I have the right picture of what SQL is.)

 

4. I figured OOP languages COULD be "DataBased Programs" because an object can consist of many different variables.

ie Class Person- String Name, string address, int current balance.

Save the information as a .txt with a semicolon at the end of each line. When reading the information back, store the first string as everything before the semicolon, and so on.

Each log/entry would be a new .txt file.

1. Yes all contract based, 40/60 split new development/legacy development.

 

2. Kind of? If your language has a library to respond to http requests then you can use it for backend development. That being said, you can write an http server in assembly, but most people still wont think of assembly as a "backend web development" language. How exactly you decide to label languages is pretty unimportant in the long run though. after you really get started with web development you will find that the people who still argue about pedantics usually don't develop much and are full of hot air =) my advice is to try to avoid them.

 

3. Since in the recent past most commonly used databases were relational databases using SQL, when new document based databases like mongoDB and cassandraDB came out people have been calling the catagory of non-SQL based databases noSQL.

 

4. That is not really what databases are. That process is called serialization.

[Blade of Grass]

On 2017-04-07 at 2:09 PM, fpo said:

What would you say is the most in demand framework? Saying you had to pick one, or your top 3 in whatever order. I understand the benefits of learning multiple.

StackOverflow Dev Survey says that the top 3 frameworks are (in order) Node.JS, Angular.JS and .NET Core. In my personal view though, I wouldn't learn .NET and would instead go for Node.JS/React, since that's the new-fangled stack in web dev right now. 

GO/Scala are also good languages to learn--they're essentially better versions of C++ and Java, targeted at web work. 

Quote

Are all those SQL languages listed (MySql, Sql Server, Oracle, etc) as close to each other as C, C++, C#, and Java? In generality.

SQL is a language, what he listed are specific software's that you can query using SQL (sort of like how you can run Java on the HotSpot JVM or the OpenJDK--they both run Java, but they're two different pieces of software). 

Quote

I am close to the New York City area, but am willing to go anywhere for jobs. I hear San Francisco is in desperate need for programmers. (There was an article on USA today my storyboarding teacher shared. He's not a programmer.)

San Francisco is great for dev, but there's a lot of competition (especially coming from target-school graduates) and the cost of living is very high. There's a variety of good cities around the US for dev though, like Seattle or Houston. But why move? NYC is a great place for software (especially if you're interested in financial tech). 

Quote

What would be some examples of projects you worked on? Not saying tell me where you work, but for instance did you make things similar to Facebook, flappy bird, so on? I ask because I want to get a better picture of things I may end up working on.

What you work on entirely depends on who you work for. If you work at Google, maybe you would work on the Search team, or the YouTube team. If you work at Facebook you could work on Security, or Help and Protect. If you work at LinusTechTips, maybe you'd work on the forum  

Quote

What languages are the front end, and which ones are the backend in your environment? If languages are used for other disciplines what are they used for in your instances?

There's only one language for front-end web--JavaScript

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Blade of Grass said:

If you work at LinusTechTips, maybe you'd work on the forum  

 

(Working on a real reply, but don't disregard this.)

[Guest]

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 5:39 PM, madknight3 said:

1. I don't follow the different languages/frameworks closely enough to know which is most in demand. I don't worry too much about that kind of thing.

 

5. I'm a Canadian who's never had much interest in living in the US so I've never looked into the big tech cities there. Through looking at job sites, news/blog articles, talking to people in the industry, etc you should be able to find some more specific info. I would expect many different languages to be in high demand though.

1. What do you look closely at? If you look at anything in particular. (Also thanks for the idea of checking about languages. C# isn't the most in demand everywhere, but it seems like it's popular enough for me to work with and not stress too much about getting a job!)

 

5. I signed up for meetups.com but there aren't too many where I go to college (Not disclosing where I go for obvious reasons.) However I will check out NYC! Thanks!

 

21 hours ago, SpaceNugget said:

4. That is not really what databases are. That process is called serialization.

4. Is Serialization common in Backend Development?

20 hours ago, Blade of Grass said:

1. StackOverflow Dev Survey says that the top 3 frameworks are (in order) Node.JS, Angular.JS and .NET Core. In my personal view though, I wouldn't learn .NET and would instead go for Node.JS/React, since that's the new-fangled stack in web dev right now. 

GO/Scala are also good languages to learn--they're essentially better versions of C++ and Java, targeted at web work. 

 

3. San Francisco is great for dev, but there's a lot of competition (especially coming from target-school graduates) and the cost of living is very high. There's a variety of good cities around the US for dev though, like Seattle or Houston. But why move? NYC is a great place for software (especially if you're interested in financial tech). 

4. What you work on entirely depends on who you work for. If you work at Google, maybe you would work on the Search team, or the YouTube team. If you work at Facebook you could work on Security, or Help and Protect. If you work at LinusTechTips, maybe you'd work on the forum  

1. I suppose I'd have to stay up to date on tools regardless. This will be good practice.

 

3. I heard Riot Games (League of Legends) hired people there and from past employee stories they struggled financially even though they were paid a lot.

 

4. Still; Y'all Hiring?

[madknight3]

16 minutes ago, fpo said:

1. What do you look closely at? If you look at anything in particular. (Also thanks for the idea of checking about languages. C# isn't the most in demand everywhere, but it seems like it's popular enough for me to work with and not stress too much about getting a job!)

I follow what's going on in the .NET ecosystem as it's relevant to my job but outside of that I don't follow anything too closely. I like to have a general idea of the landscape but I don't need to know the specifics of everything.

 

At the moment I'm just focused on improving my skills as a software developer in general. Again, I spend most of my time within the .NET ecosystem since that directly impacts my current job. If I was planning on leaving my current job, ideally a lot of the knowledge I'm gaining will transfer to other languages/frameworks as well if I ever decided to do something outside of the .NET ecosystem.

[Dat Guy]

Quote

Languages you use professionally, or used professionally?

 

For paid (non-personal) projects I've used so far:

• "Python" (Zope)
• Perl 5
• POSIX shell scripts
• PHP + MySQL
• HTML/CSS/JavaScript
• Oracle SQL
• C++/Java (Android)
• C#/ASP.net

Still trying to get more C on my payroll. However, I recommend to refrain from thinking in "stacks". I don't do "full-stack" or "front-end" or "back-end", I just do the fucking application.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Dat Guy said:

I just do the application.

Would you mind elaborating?

I think you mean something along the lines of writing the entire standalone desktop application; however I'm not sure.

 

I only think about the 'stack' because it seems like something many companies are looking for.

[Dat Guy]

Companies love buzzwords. I don't. There is no such thing as a "stack". 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dat Guy said:

Companies love buzzwords. I don't. There is no such thing as a "stack". 

What does the process of development look like for you then?

 

Do you program a program, and then make a web interface? I'm not exactly sure what you do, but I understand the spite of buzzfeed... I mean Buzzwords, sorry.

[Dat Guy]

3 minutes ago, fpo said:

Do you program a program, and then make a web interface?

Sometimes. One of my applications has actually grown a web interface after months. I'm still not a "stack developer" because there is no clear separation between what's a front-end and what's a back-end. What about the Model in MVC?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Sometimes. One of my applications has actually grown a web interface after months. I'm still not a "stack developer" because there is no clear separation between what's a front-end and what's a back-end. What about the Model in MVC?

So it's not predetermined that an application will be "full stack?"

 

Applications just over time get those features added?

[Dat Guy]

Not a single developer who does not have an economy background will consider himself to be a "full-stack developer" as that would imply the existence of different "stacks".

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Not a single developer who does not have an economy background will consider himself to be a "full-stack developer" as that would imply the existence of different "stacks".

I'm not sure I understand the first half of that sentence.

 

Are you saying no one considers themselves a "full-stack developer" and that there is no such thing as stacks?

[Dat Guy]

Yes, I do.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Dat Guy said:

Yes, I do.

So then which one are you?

[SpaceNugget]

On 2017-04-10 at 0:46 PM, Dat Guy said:

Not a single developer who does not have an economy background will consider himself to be a "full-stack developer" as that would imply the existence of different "stacks".

I somewhat agree with you on that no one is equally balanced across the front-end back-end split, especially in the end user desktop space. The comic you linked is pretty hilariously accurate, but accepting that means you have to accept that a conceptual stack exists. Its just another word that means "the entire application." a stack built on django is not the same stack as a stack built on laravel.

 

There are some exceptions, if you are writing firmware for a washing machine controller, it is very likely that you ARE a full stack developer for your particular "stack."
 

OP: stack just means what frameworks/languages/tech you make your application out of. I.E. when you create a C# application and you choose between WPF and winforms or whatever they are, that's you choosing your stack.

 

Full Stack Web developers are never really FULL stack except in personal endeavours and understaffed startups. On the other hand, there it is very uncommon in my experience to have anyone (besides designers) be 100% in one 'level' of the stack, the application almost always too tightly coupled for that to happen. The lines are a bit blurry between the levels in most cases.