Windows 10 Telemetry

[Ezio Auditore]

Should people who only game and browse on their pc care about this?

[RGProductions]

Do you do anything you wouldn't want the government to see? If not use windows 10, if so use linux and we'll talk

[GoodBytes]

5 minutes ago, Ezio Auditore said:

Should people who only game and browse on their pc care about this?

Telemetry data collecting is nothing new to Windows, or any big software or website you use.

It helps shape future version of the software or website in question. There is no personal data being collected. All data is merged together to make fancy graphs, statistics and heatmaps. In the case of Windows, also add crash report, system diagnostics when you post feedback through the Feedback hub.

[Ezio Auditore]

10 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Telemetry data collecting is nothing new to Windows, or any big software or website you use.

It helps shape future version of the software or website in question. There is no personal data being collected. All data is merged together to make fancy graphs, statistics and heatmaps. In the case of Windows, also add crash report, system diagnostics when you post feedback through the Feedback hub.

Then what was the point of ltt windows 9 video?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ezio Auditore said:

Then what was the point of ltt windows 9 video?

Just to be a skit that tells you Windows 10 collects more data than a other version of Windows, and how you can make it collect less.

[Ezio Auditore]

1 minute ago, Factory OC said:

Just to be a skit that tells you Windows 10 collects more data than a other version of Windows, and how you can make it collect less.

Why make it collect less whem it doesn't matter?

[Guest]

Just now, Ezio Auditore said:

Why make it collect less whem it doesn't matter?

People do some stuff they don't want Microsoft to know, and don't want to feel paranoid because of someone knowing their deepest secret.

[Ezio Auditore]

3 minutes ago, Factory OC said:

People do some stuff they don't want Microsoft to know, and don't want to feel paranoid because of someone knowing their deepest secret.

Like piracy?

[Delicieuxz]

GoodBytes has a wealth of great Windows knowledge, but they're wrong on this issue.

 

Data-collection in Windows 10 is at least an order of magnitude greater than any previous Windows OS', and Windows 7 in-fact has 0 telemetry or data-collection unless a person first manually enables it, or if they've installed updates that Microsoft offered through Windows Update starting sometime around July of 2015.

 

There is massive amount of personal data being collected through Windows 10 from everyone, and collecting data is Microsoft's new business model. And all of the data collected is associated with a unique system identifier, so all collected data traces back to whichever computer it came from.

 

Everything typed into Cortana is sent to Microsoft, as are contents of documents, emails, audio, video, browsing history, application-usage history, and more. Microsoft uses collected data for a variety of things, from aiding law enforcement efforts, informing governments, and compiling the collected data into business reports, which Microsoft sells to anyone interested: researchers, corporations, advertisers, police, government...

 

Microsoft has openly volunteered unfettered access to people's computers and their data to the NSA.

 

Also, there is no such thing as encryption in Windows 10: Windows 10's encryption creates a special key that is sent to Microsoft, so that Microsoft can access any person's encrypted data.

 

Microsoft has also built back-doors into Windows 10 functionality, so that they can browse any person's computer and files at any time, without the person being aware of it - even while they're using their own PC.

 

Windows 10 also had far more more security vulnerabilities discovered last year than any previous Windows OS, ever. And when security vulnerabilities are discovered, Microsoft notifies them to the CIA before they do anything to try to fix them, giving the CIA first opportunity to exploit them.

 

Windows 10 is a hyper-unsafe OS, and is probably the very least secure OS that's available today, and by a very large measure.

 

http://www.itproportal.com/2014/05/14/microsoft-openly-offered-cloud-data-fbi-and-nsa/

https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/06/20/project-chess-how-u-s-snoops-on-your-skype/#b9ddb6484e08

https://betanews.com/2015/08/15/microsoft-stands-accused-of-deleting-windows-10-insider-feedback-it-doesnt-like/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://www.wired.com/2014/03/microsoft_vigilante/

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/netro/2015/09/09/windows-7-windows-8-and-windows-10-telemetry-updates-diagnostic-tracking/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-telemetry-secrets/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/717347-and-the-software-with-most-vulnerabilities-in-2016-was…-android/

[Guest]

Just now, Ezio Auditore said:

Like piracy?

Let's not go into what people may be doing on their PC, but that may be a reason, not bigger than other reasons.

[Ezio Auditore]

4 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

GoodBytes has a wealth of great Windows knowledge, but they're wrong on this issue.

 

Data-collection in Windows 10 is at least an order of magnitude greater than anything before, and Windows 7 in-fact has 0 telemetry or data-collection unless a person first manually enables it, or if they've installed updates that Microsoft offered through Windows Update starting sometime around July of 2015.

 

There is massive amount of personal data being collected through Windows 10 from everyone, and collecting data is Microsoft's new business model. And all of the data collected is associated with a unique system identifier, so all collected data traces back to whichever computer it came from.

 

Everything typed into Cortana is sent to Microsoft, as are contents of documents, emails, audio, video, browsing history, application-usage history, and more. Microsoft uses collected data for a variety of things, from aiding law enforcement efforts, informing governments, and compiling the collected data into business reports, which Microsoft sells to anyone interested: researchers, corporations, advertisers, police, government...

 

Microsoft has openly volunteered unfettered access to people's computers and their data to the NSA.

 

Also, there is no such thing as encryption in Windows 10: Windows 10's encryption creates a special key that is sent to Microsoft, so that Microsoft can access any person's encrypted data.

 

Microsoft has also built back-doors into Windows 10 functionality, so that they can browse any person's computer and files at any time, without the person being aware of it - even while they're using their own PC.

 

Windows 10 also had far more more security vulnerabilities discovered last year than any previous Windows OS, ever. And when security vulnerabilities are discovered, Microsoft notifies them to the CIA before they do anything to try to fix them, giving the CIA first opportunity to exploit them.

 

Windows 10 is a hyper-unsafe OS, and is probably the very least secure OS that's available today, and by a very large measure.

 

http://www.itproportal.com/2014/05/14/microsoft-openly-offered-cloud-data-fbi-and-nsa/

https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2013/06/20/project-chess-how-u-s-snoops-on-your-skype/#b9ddb6484e08

https://betanews.com/2015/08/15/microsoft-stands-accused-of-deleting-windows-10-insider-feedback-it-doesnt-like/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://www.wired.com/2014/03/microsoft_vigilante/

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/netro/2015/09/09/windows-7-windows-8-and-windows-10-telemetry-updates-diagnostic-tracking/

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-telemetry-secrets/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/717347-and-the-software-with-most-vulnerabilities-in-2016-was…-android/

So something like watch dogs happening here?

[Delicieuxz]

5 minutes ago, Ezio Auditore said:

So something like watch dogs happening here?

Basically, Windows 10 is a wide-open data-leech faucet - and I believe that what Microsoft is doing is fully data-theft, with a bunch of PR lipstick put on it. Microsoft has an extensive history of their words being completely detached from their actions, and that appears to fully be the case when it comes to Windows 10's security (there hardly is any) and non-authorized data activity. Windows 10 is only an OS as an afterthought: It's firstly a medium to generate and obtain people's data, which Microsoft then makes money from. I think Windows 10 fully befits all established definitions of malware.

[GoodBytes]

@Delicieuxz isn't fully wrong, but he puts everything into 1 basket. Multiple different product merged into one.

Yes. If you use Outlook Mail service, or OneDrive, Microsoft has your data (file, e-mail content, etc.) to offer you the servers. Obviously. If you use GMail, Google has your e-mail, because that is how they can offer you access to your e-mail from their website... If you have a mail box at the postal office, that mail box is owned by the postal office, not you, and so, the Postal Office can open it, and can comply to warrants to open your box, and mail content.

 

Windows 7 has data collection is enabled by default, so did Windows XP. When a program crash, or you have a BSOD in Windows 7, information is collected and sent to Microsoft for analysis. This include additional system data.

What do you think this is doing?

The program crash dump and your system specs are sent to Microsoft server for analysis, and then it sees if Microsoft has a solution to this, such as running the program under compatibility mode with specific options to make it run (if your program is not old, or has a solution (which is most of the case) then it will returns no result).

 

If you use Bing or Cortana (which is Bing), yes, now you fall, like you are using Google search engine, with similar policies. Where data is collected for selling purposes.

 

The "problem" is that Windows 10 integrates:

 -> Groove music subscription service

 -> Store (App, Games, Music, Movies/TV shows)

 -> OneDrive

 -> Cortana

 -> Microsoft accounts linked account

 -> Microsoft ad platform (the ads that a developer can choose to have in their apps. Apple has its own platform for apps in apps for iOS device, And similarly Google. Usually developers like to go with this solution over another one, as it is 1 line code basically to have ads, and their account to receive money is all setup already.)

 -> Edge (like Chrome, the web browser collects information on your web surfing and that is used for selling and targeted ads)

 -> Skype (ads in Skype.. nothing new here.. no ads in the Skype Preview app as we speak, as it is in Preview, and still in development, but expect to come once it is finish)

 

So, because they are all integrated into the OS to some varying levels, it shares 1 privacy policy. Mixed with the fact that Microsoft has now simplified the English and wording used in the privacy policy where you don't need a lawyer to understand, people now think that Microsoft has access to all your data, and tracks your every move, and you have 1 NSA/Microsoft employee behind the desk looking at every move with a red button to send the Squad team at your house with a judgment for life without going to court if you dare to click on that wrong item on the screen. So, with the thin foil hat crowed providing false information, and miss understanding of the privacy policy, you have some people panicking.

 

As for Microsoft sharing information with the government. Actually, Microsoft, like Google, Facebook, and just about any large company you can think off, including small ones, comply with the countries government. The law forces the company to comply. Else the company will be taken to court for obstructing justice (at least in most democratic countries). That is IF, and ONLY IF, they have a valid warrant. That means that a genuine case has been made against you, that you have done something illegal, and judge,in court, has verified that indeed there is a case for investigation. Microsoft also informs you if you a warrant has been done on you. The data that Microsoft can provide to the authorities are anything that is on Microsoft servers. So that means: OneDrive, email and search history with Bing.

 

Microsoft and other big companies fight in different ways to keep users data private without valid warrant.

Example: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2016/07/14/search-warrant-case-important-decision-people-everywhere/

Of course, as it is not very interesting news, it is not reported. You can find many cases like this, from Google, and others.

 

As for the NSA, Microsoft is the only company that was rapidly moving US data OUT of the country, including backups, so that the US cannot have access to the data easily, They need to work with other countries with don't align with the US Government views, and requires to follow their laws. Why Microsoft did this? Business. By protecting companies and people data, Microsoft Azure service has exploded in popularity, eating Amazon and Google marketshare considerably. Microsoft probably made more money, then if the government brought briefcase of money to them. Also, they encrypted their data (read article bellow), and moved data away from countries working with the NSA.

https://www.wired.com/2013/12/microsoft-nsa/

https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2013/12/04/protecting-customer-data-from-government-snooping/

https://betanews.com/2015/11/11/microsoft-to-hide-european-data-from-the-nsa-with-new-german-datacenters/

 

However, that said, Microsoft record isn't clean either. Before the above set of move, Microsoft did work with the NSA. Document revealed as such (mostly holes made in the OS). That is a complicated issue, as we don't know if it is company decision to do this, OR it the NSA infiltrating the company, by having employees with basically 2 jobs (Microsoft and NSA), to make them without the company knowing. I mean, all you need is a NSA employee take a Microsoft managerial position, and that manager hires NSA programmers to work at Microsoft, and everything passes out of the radar. Must be fun to get 2x 6 digits pay checks per year. It is difficult to say. More information is needed, and sadly only time will tell. By the way, we are talking about Windows 7 and 8 days.

 

 

 

 

[GoodBytes]

Apologies, I had to go in an emergency matter.

I have a lot more to say... but I can write a book on it, so I won't bore with more talk, if you have any questions I'll go more into.

 

But to end,

 

I do agree that it is shitty, very shitty, that there is no opt out, and that Microsoft is not providing details on what is being transferred. These 2 issues are serious ones.

I hope that Microsoft will add this option in the near future. With the Creator Update coming up very soon, Microsoft is making it more clear about the telemetry data collecting, which is great. And putting the options to control, including allowing tracking for ads options at the for front, so that you need to go to Start > Settings > Privacy to set it up. This is great for average users. I guess baby steps.

 

The problem, and why people freak out, is that Microsoft doesn't want to provide details on what is being collected. Maybe because it changes every now and then, so they can't say for sure. My guess, it is to discourage  hackers trying to reroute people traffic because they see something as potentially valuable that was not thought about of being valuable. So by hiding everything, no one knows what is being transferred. And, I expect no employee knows either in full. That is my guess.

 

So, it comes down to trust, but if it is revealed that Microsoft is indeed collecting personal information, not by accident, through its telemetry data, then this is a serious lawsuit right there. Not to mention a MASSIVE destruction of trust amongst Microsoft and companies using the OS in their systems. Microsoft is taking the chance right now.

 

Oh 1 thing I didn't mention. Child pornography, if you have any, keep in mind that if any reach Microsoft servers (same applies to Google), they are being processed by a software that has been developed, to scan through it, and if any red flags are triggered, they are investigated by a team, and if found that it is child pornography, the police are alerted. Microsoft, Google, and many other large companies are against child pornography.

 

Anyway, the decision is yours. Just don't be an hypocrite. What I mean: claiming that you want the at most privacy, but use Google search engine, or Bing or Yahoo search engine, and use Chrome web browser, and use an Android phone, and any social media site. They all track telemetry data, and on top of that, collect information to get to know you to sale market data. What is market data? That is the data about you, that is merged with other data, and sold to companies. Usually these companies are resalers. What I mean, is that they provide a subscription or sale the data to other companies with a software to query questions. For example: They can get information such as: In the US and Canada, 80% of males, in the age of 18-35, really loves file cabinets. 50% of them have fetishes with file cabinets. So now, File cabinet makers see what market they can target for their new exciting File Cabinet model, and can tweak the model to meet that market. Companies are paying millions for such data, because it is cheaper to spend 1-2 millions for that data, then to spend billions in R&D and release a product that fails. Why it failed? because it doesn't meet the needs of the consumers, or marketed at the wrong people who just don't care (This is why you don't see File Cabinet ads made to Gamers... Or maybe soon.... RGB File Cabinet! Hey you never know! Might be the next best thing ).

 

Another problem, is, imagine,  you are making a tablet computer. You have these fancy specs, made in titanium body, indestructible, yet user replaceable battery, guaranty to survive a 25 floor height drop, beautiful display, and everything you can ask for. Great! You sale it at 1000$. It bombs. Why? Because your competitor has the same product, same specs, and everything but in plastic at 500$, and because the target market doesn't care about this amount of durability, waterproof, including the "survive a 25 floor high drop"... I mean they see it as nice thing, but not a 500$ premium over the other model. Even if yours you are selling it at cost. Again, market data could save you from such flop. Knowing what most people want, you can perhaps you can reduce on the craziness of strength and features a bit, to have a 600$ product. Being 100$ more but much more durable than you competitor, can end up being a hit. A 100$ more device, but feels better and is more durable. That is a great offer, they might go.

 

That is what Google, Microsoft (Bing), Yahoo, sales. They don't care about YOU exactly YOU, or Me. They want your detail data for accuracy and provide lots of information when the data is merged together. The only thing they need to know you, but don't care about your name (beside as a way to ID you for better tracking), is to have targeted ads delivered to you. All this is done through fancy algorithm. This gives money to the web site you use often thanks to ads so that they can operate, you have an ad that might interest you, and Google/Microsoft/wtv ad company, makes money as they can sell ad spots for more as they are more targeted. So everyone wins.

 

So yea. the choice is yours. I choose that I trust Microsoft (but not blindly, of course), I trust the Privacy Policy which I did read carefully, and I made sure I understand it. Why do I trust Microsoft, despite having said that Microsoft did bad things (Oh I forgot to mention, they also allowed police (with warrants) to monitor specific people conversation though Skype. Use Telegram if you want privacy. This service encrypts everything). But I find them better than the rest, and I have worked with telemetry data before, I know what it is, and I am comfortable with it. That is me. Obviously, and as you can see, many members on this very forum aren't comfortable. That is their choice. That is fine. Some doesn't trust Microsoft but trusts other companies, like Google. That their choice, and that is also fine. I know what I am doing. I know if I put something on OneDrive folder, Microsoft has access to it, I know that because I have a Microsoft tied account, my settings, including backgrounds are sync between my PCs, and that means that Microsoft servers has it. That is fine. I don't have child pornography as wallpapers, nor I put stuff I like (games wallpaper, TV show wallpaper, etc). Well, you get the idea.The data that Microsoft has, is similar to Google, and it is nothing that I judge to be private, or able to identify me per se.

 

If you want advice to maximize privacy in Windows 10, let me know. If you want to go full privacy, I can suggest OS solutions and software. I am not going to claim I am an expert, so I suggest to do your own research on this, but it will be a good starting point.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

-snip-

Thank you tons!!

That is a lot of information. Should this topic be pinned?

BTW: MS can snoop through your data on your hard drive? WTF?

I guess I am still a noob in reading privacy policies.

Also, that joke about RGB cabinet was damn good. : )

 

[Madmike1993]

So, GoodBytes, just simply out of curiosity.... is piracy safe on Windows 10? Or any OS for that matter?

[GoodBytes]

8 hours ago, Ezio Auditore said:

BTW: MS can snoop through your data on your hard drive? WTF?

I guess I am still a noob in reading privacy policies.

Also, that joke about RGB cabinet was damn good. : )

 

It refers to OneDrive. If you have a Microsoft joined account, you have OneDrive account enabled. Anything you put in there. Microsoft has it, and can scan your content. Same applies if you send a file through email that is using Microsoft servers (outlook/hotmail/live), in both sending and receiving. And now, Beam video streaming service (Twitch competitor. Microsoft bought them).

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, Madmike1993 said:

So, GoodBytes, just simply out of curiosity.... is piracy safe on Windows 10? Or any OS for that matter?

I am heavily against piracy. They are no reason to pirate anything.

However, Microsoft isn't the police. Same applies as above. If you put pirated content on OneDrive, pas through e-mail, or stream copywriter material through Beam, Microsoft has that information, and can choose (and assume they will) to obey police requests with warrant. But at this point, expect the police to already arrested you, and your PCs taken for investigation. Expect also, that if you encrypt the data using Microsoft encryption method or another one from a company, to comply to decrypt it for them, if they have a valid warrant, if they can. Assume they can. Expect the police to also bring warrants to Google, and all other search engines to request your searches as well. This includes your ISP to know your IPs at the time and day, to link you to the search results. The police isn't stupid, and they have experts in hand and can work with companies.

[GoodBytes]

Improved English on my second big post. Sorry, was typing it fast.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It refers to OneDrive. If you have a Microsoft joined account, you have OneDrive account enabled. Anything you put in there. Microsoft has it, and can scan your content. Same applies if you send a file through email that is using Microsoft servers (outlook/hotmail/live), in both sending and receiving. And now, Beam video streaming service (Twitch competitor. Microsoft bought them).

If it refers to onedrive then how can disabling windows telemetry solve this?

[Ezio Auditore]

5 hours ago, Madmike1993 said:

So, GoodBytes, just simply out of curiosity.... is piracy safe on Windows 10? Or any OS for that matter?

Sure simply out of curiosity?

[GoodBytes]

22 minutes ago, Ezio Auditore said:

If it refers to onedrive then how can disabling windows telemetry solve this?

Disabling telemetry, assuming you can in Windows 10 (or use Windows 7 or older and disable it those OS as you can), this won't solve it.

The only solution is not use OneDrive. Don't put any files inside the folder. Or make a Local account instead of a Microsoft joined account, and never sign up for OneDrive.

[Ezio Auditore]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Disabling telemetry, assuming you can in Windows 10 (or use Windows 7 or older and disable it those OS as you can), this won't solve it.

The only solution is not use OneDrive. Don't put any files inside the folder. Or make a Local account instead of a Microsoft joined account, and never sign up for OneDrive.

So the ltt windows 9 video was pointless......

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Ezio Auditore said:

So the ltt windows 9 video was pointless......

I need to watch it again, because I forgot. But if there is no telemetry data collecting, or can be disabled, then that is an upside of it. If not, then same story, so yea pointless.

 

But like I said, even if you disable telemetry data, OneDrive is still there, and the rules still applies. If you put anything inside. Microsoft has it, and can has access to it, and check the content. If you have a Dropbox, any files that you put inside that Dropbox folder, Dropbox has it, and they follow similar policies. Same with Google Drive. If you want Cloud Storage be 100% private, you need to make your own solution, which you run at home.

[Mira Yurizaki]

If you're worried about someone spying on you, you really shouldn't be on the internet.

 

Once the packet leaves your system, it's out of your hands. You cannot guarantee someone will not save it for whatever nefarious purpose they choose. And even then, if you don't want someone to ID you, well, your browsing habits are enough to ID you and apparently it doesn't take very much data to get a match.