First liquid cooling attempt

[B0G3N]

Hi there! 

Some months ago, I decided to try to liquid cool my computer. So far, I have had loads of fun learning and researching different aspects of the liquid cooling systems, but there is so much out there that it all seems a bit daunting at first. I have a couple of questions, but first; the system. 

 

 

Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv mATX

Mobo: Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene

CPU: Intel i5-6600K

RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport (2400 MHz)

GPU: MSI R9 390 Gaming 8G

PSU: Corsair RM750x

Storage: 512GB Samsung 850 Evo + 1TB Seagate Laptop SSHD

Pump+Res: EK-XRES 100 DDC MX 3.2 PWM

Front Rad+fans: EK CoolStream SE 240 + 2x Vardar 1850RPM fans

Top Rad+fans: EK CoolStream PE 240 + 2x Corsair SP120 Quiet Ed. fans

 

Had some difficulties figuring out where to rout the tubing in this build, but am quite happy with the way it turned out. I am tempted to redo the tubing in hard acrylic or PETG, but I am a bit confused on the options and ranges of tube sizes available. From what I gather tube size is mostly a matter of visual preference? Are there any other things to look our for when choosing tube and fittings size? I am thinking of incorporating more white into the build, maybe using white fittings and some lighting. Also considdering using white pastel coolant. 

 

However, my GPU core temperatures seem to go a bit warm (the GPU core is touching on 80-82^oC after benchmarking in Unigine Valley for 30+ mins).

Are these temperatures normal? The cooling liquid is getting close to 60^oC (upper 50-ies). I am aware that the R9 390 is notorious for high operating temps, so I am not sure if these temps are normal or not. 

 

Might turn this thread into a sort of build log if I decide to go for hard tubing. ^^

Comments and suggestions are much welcome - exciting to be joining such a knowledgable community!

[Zefqon]

3 minutes ago, B0G3N said:

Hi there! 

Some months ago, I decided to try to liquid cool my computer. So far, I have had loads of fun learning and researching different aspects of the liquid cooling systems, but there is so much out there that it all seems a bit daunting at first. I have a couple of questions, but first; the system. 

 

 

Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv mATX

Mobo: Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene

CPU: Intel i5-6600K

RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport (2400 MHz)

GPU: MSI R9 390 Gaming 8G

PSU: Corsair RM750x

Storage: 512GB Samsung 850 Evo + 1TB Seagate Laptop SSHD

Pump+Res: EK-XRES 100 DDC MX 3.2 PWM

Front Rad+fans: EK CoolStream SE 240 + 2x Vardar 1850RPM fans

Top Rad+fans: EK CoolStream PE 240 + 2x Corsair SP120 Quiet Ed. fans

 

Had some difficulties figuring out where to rout the tubing in this build, but am quite happy with the way it turned out. I am tempted to redo the tubing in hard acrylic or PETG, but I am a bit confused on the options and ranges of tube sizes available. From what I gather tube size is mostly a matter of visual preference? Are there any other things to look our for when choosing tube and fittings size? I am thinking of incorporating more white into the build, maybe using white fittings and some lighting. Also considdering using white pastel coolant. 

 

However, my GPU core temperatures seem to go a bit warm (the GPU core is touching on 80-82^oC after benchmarking in Unigine Valley for 30+ mins).

Are these temperatures normal? The cooling liquid is getting close to 60^oC (upper 50-ies). I am aware that the R9 390 is notorious for high operating temps, so I am not sure if these temps are normal or not. 

 

Might turn this thread into a sort of build log if I decide to go for hard tubing. ^^

Comments and suggestions are much welcome - exciting to be joining such a knowledgable community!

About the GPU thing, that's totally normal, even on the low side actually. No reason to worry about that. If it get's to 90 degrees you have to start worrying

[DildorTheDecent]

32 minutes ago, B0G3N said:

 

However, my GPU core temperatures seem to go a bit warm (the GPU core is touching on 80-82^oC after benchmarking in Unigine Valley for 30+ mins).

Are these temperatures normal? The cooling liquid is getting close to 60^oC (upper 50-ies). I am aware that the R9 390 is notorious for high operating temps, so I am not sure if these temps are normal or not. 

There's something really, really wrong if that's on water.

 

Also that drain valve just looks odd. Could be omitted entirely and just use ports on the underside of the GPU for draining. 

[done12many2]

32 minutes ago, B0G3N said:

However, my GPU core temperatures seem to go a bit warm (the GPU core is touching on 80-82^oC after benchmarking in Unigine Valley for 30+ mins).

Are these temperatures normal? The cooling liquid is getting close to 60^oC (upper 50-ies). I am aware that the R9 390 is notorious for high operating temps, so I am not sure if these temps are normal or not. 

 

That water temp is too high.  The whole point of water cooling is to transfer the heat from a CPU, GPU, or whatever you are cooling to the water, which is then dissipated to the air via the radiators.  The greater the difference between whatever your trying to cool and the water itself, the faster that transfer will occur.

 

Either your ambient temps are VERY high, or you're not dissipating the heat via the radiators fast enough due to lack of fan speed / air moving through the rads. 

 

Are you running your fans as fast as you can during these heavier loads?

[COUPER MILLAR]

Something is definitely not right. Like @done12many2 said those temps are way above what you should see on water. What speed is your pump running at? Have you made sure you have fully cleared the loop of air bubbles? How confident are you in your application of your thermal paste? Also on a less practical note that drain tube has to go. Firstly because it takes away form the look of the loop, and secondly because it is in the middle instead of the lowest point making it more difficult to fully drain the loop. 

[B0G3N]

1 hour ago, done12many2 said:

 

That water temp is too high.  The whole point of water cooling is to transfer the heat from a CPU, GPU, or whatever you are cooling to the water, which is then dissipated to the air via the radiators.  The greater the difference between whatever your trying to cool and the water itself, the faster that transfer will occur.

 

Either your ambient temps are VERY high, or you're not dissipating the heat via the radiators fast enough due to lack of fan speed / air moving through the rads. 

 

Are you running your fans as fast as you can during these heavier loads?

 

1 hour ago, COUPER MILLAR said:

Something is definitely not right. Like @done12many2 said those temps are way above what you should see on water. What speed is your pump running at? Have you made sure you have fully cleared the loop of air bubbles? How confident are you in your application of your thermal paste? Also on a less practical note that drain tube has to go. Firstly because it takes away form the look of the loop, and secondly because it is in the middle instead of the lowest point making it more difficult to fully drain the loop. 

Thank you both for your feedback, guys. I have suspected the temperatures of the water to be a bit on the warmer side - i can elaborate on the conditions: 

When benchmarking in Valley, using ultra settings and 8x AA in 1440p, the GPU reaches core temps of 76^oC after 40 (ish) mins. At this time, the liquid coolant is reaching 54^oC with both radiator fan pairs running at their respective maximum rpms (that is; 1850 rpm for the two EK Vardars and 1450 rpm for the Corsair SP120s). The rear fan is running at 1050 rpm to let in some fresh air and to keep case pressure positive. The pump is doing 4500 rpm, and making a loud whine/hum (famous for the Laing DDC pumps, I suppose). Ambient temps in the room are between 20-25^oC.

I am fairly sure that the loop is drained of air, and that the thermal paste is applied in a generous but correct fashion. I speculate that a lack of thermal paste might have shown up as high GPU core temps but low water temps? Or am I assuming this link between coolant temperature and GPU core heat transfer wrongly?

 

Also, the radiator placement might have some impact on the cooling efficiency, no? From what I have seen, having a front radiator as intake and a top radiator should work out quite alright, or have I misunderstood?

 

Regarding the drain; I know it looks silly, but I figured that was an easy access point in the case, especially considering that I might change the loop soonish to redo the tubing. It is in the middle of the loop when the case is oriented this way, but when tilted, it becomes the lowest point in the loop. Will definitely try to do a drain at the lowest point (where the pump-res-combo now is) the next time I need to drain the system!

 

Again, thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated!

[done12many2]

2 minutes ago, B0G3N said:

 

Thank you both for your feedback, guys. I have suspected the temperatures of the water to be a bit on the warmer side - i can elaborate on the conditions: 

When benchmarking in Valley, using ultra settings and 8x AA in 1440p, the GPU reaches core temps of 76^oC after 40 (ish) mins. At this time, the liquid coolant is reaching 54^oC with both radiator fan pairs running at their respective maximum rpms (that is; 1850 rpm for the two EK Vardars and 1450 rpm for the Corsair SP120s). The rear fan is running at 1050 rpm to let in some fresh air and to keep case pressure positive. The pump is doing 4500 rpm, and making a loud whine/hum (famous for the Laing DDC pumps, I suppose). Ambient temps in the room are between 20-25^oC.

 

I am fairly sure that the loop is drained of air, and that the thermal paste is applied in a generous but correct fashion. I speculate that a lack of thermal paste might have shown up as high GPU core temps but low water temps? Or am I assuming this link between coolant temperature and GPU core heat transfer wrongly?

 

Also, the radiator placement might have some impact on the cooling efficiency, no? From what I have seen, having a front radiator as intake and a top radiator should work out quite alright, or have I misunderstood?

 

Regarding the drain; I know it looks silly, but I figured that was an easy access point in the case, especially considering that I might change the loop soonish to redo the tubing. It is in the middle of the loop when the case is oriented this way, but when tilted, it becomes the lowest point in the loop. Will definitely try to do a drain at the lowest point (where the pump-res-combo now is) the next time I need to drain the system!

 

Again, thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated!

 

What are you're ambient temps?  Sorry, didn't read carefully enough.

 

I still think there is more to this.  Does water temp ever get down to ambient room temp when CPU and GPU are idle?

[B0G3N]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

What are you're ambient temps?

Ambient temps in the room are between 20-25^oC.

[done12many2]

Just now, B0G3N said:

Ambient temps in the room are between 20-25^oC.

 

Sorry, I was editing my post when you posted this.  See above.

[COUPER MILLAR]

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

What are you're ambient temps?  Sorry, didn't read carefully enough.

 

I still think there is more to this.  Does water temp ever get down to ambient room temp when CPU and GPU are idle?

Along these lines what are cpu and gpu temps at idle? 

[B0G3N]

10 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

Sorry, I was editing my post when you posted this.  See above.

 

10 hours ago, COUPER MILLAR said:

Along these lines what are cpu and gpu temps at idle? 

The idle temperatures with radiator fans running at max speed: 

GPU is doing 33 C and CPU is doing 30-35 C. 

Room temps are 21 C at the moment.  

Thank you for your help!

[Ryoku]

3 hours ago, B0G3N said:

 

The idle temperatures with radiator fans running at max speed: 

GPU is doing 33 C and CPU is doing 30-35 C. 

Room temps are 21 C at the moment.  

Thank you for your help!

Yeah something seems wrong there, your cpu temps are similar to my OCed 4670k but your gpu temps are way higher my gtx 780 ti runs at about 58c steady (literally a straight line with the occasional dip when I'm in a loading screen or something).  I'd try reapplying your paste and making sure its seated properly.  Have the gpu temps always been around this temp and how old is the loop?

[B0G3N]

3 hours ago, Ryoku said:

Yeah something seems wrong there, your cpu temps are similar to my OCed 4670k but your gpu temps are way higher my gtx 780 ti runs at about 58c steady (literally a straight line with the occasional dip when I'm in a loading screen or something).  I'd try reapplying your paste and making sure its seated properly.  Have the gpu temps always been around this temp and how old is the loop?

Ok, thank you for your reply. 

However, I am still questioning the relation between high coolant temperatures and poorly applied thermal paste. Does not poorly applied thermal paste on the GPU core imply that the core itself will overheat due to lack of heat transfer into the cooling medium (i.e. giving higher core temps and lower coolant temps)?

 

I have had the thought that having a 250W+ GPU in the loop with the power limit turned up might just add too much heat into my loop. Cooling capacity of the two rads should (from my research) be well above the needed for a single GPU+CPU loop, but I might be wrong here. Have also thought about going for a water cooled GTX 1070, as I imagine the temperatures (and thus sound levels) will go down significantly when using a card with almost half the TDP.. 
 

Again, thank you for the help debugging my system. Anyone else here with experience with a water cooled MSI R9 390?

[Corrupt_Liberty]

52 minutes ago, B0G3N said:

Ok, thank you for your reply. 

However, I am still questioning the relation between high coolant temperatures and poorly applied thermal paste. Does not poorly applied thermal paste on the GPU core imply that the core itself will overheat due to lack of heat transfer into the cooling medium (i.e. giving higher core temps and lower coolant temps)?

 

I have had the thought that having a 250W+ GPU in the loop with the power limit turned up might just add too much heat into my loop. Cooling capacity of the two rads should (from my research) be well above the needed for a single GPU+CPU loop, but I might be wrong here. Have also thought about going for a water cooled GTX 1070, as I imagine the temperatures (and thus sound levels) will go down significantly when using a card with almost half the TDP.. 
 

Again, thank you for the help debugging my system. Anyone else here with experience with a water cooled MSI R9 390?

I have that exact cooling setup (PE240 SE240 XRES100) and something isn't right.  How are you measuring your water temp?  I have a 780 ti (also 250W TDP) and 4770K on the loop.  I run my pump close to max but my fans only start to ramp up under load.  They are almost always silent.  Both my CPU and GPU are modestly overclocked too.  CPU hits 75c under load, GPU never goes above 50c.  Room temps are about 22c and my water temps never go above 40c. 

 

 

[Necrodead]

I don't usually post anymore, but your temps seem normal for the rads you have. When I ran my r9 290 on water with 6x 140mm fans worth of rad space I hit 81C after a test like Unigen. Thats just how much heat the hawaii core puts out, and the 390 series is overclocked from the 290 speeds. Main thing that should concern you is cpu temps, if they stay below the threshold you are fine.

Your case is contributing to the high water temps, the evolv has poor airflow due to the panel design, however as long as your liquid is below 60C (you really dont want to run it hotter than that through your pump) you are fine. You will not get as hot after just gaming, only a benchmark should push your temps that high. If you take off the front panel you will probably get a few C drop. If your temps are fine after a benchmark like this you won't get anywhere near that in a game.

 

As for people commenting "I own such-and-such different gpu and different cpu and my temps are such-and-such" don't listen to those people, and I wish they wouldn't post, hardware is all different! Just because a 780ti only hits 55C does not mean the 390 won't hit 80. on almost any air cooler a 290/390 will hit 95C, its normal.

[Necrodead]

OMG another "I own a 780ti yada-yada"

 

ITS NOT A 390! Can we get someone with a 390 in here? 

[Necrodead]

Also pump speed will not affect your temps unless you go below 1gpm (gallon per minute) and you pretty much can't do that with a DDC or D5, so turn it down if you want it to be quieter. 

[Corrupt_Liberty]

37 minutes ago, Necrodead said:

OMG another "I own a 780ti yada-yada"

 

ITS NOT A 390! Can we get someone with a 390 in here? 

Was more along the lines of "I own the exact water cooling loop" and both the 390 and the 780 are 250W TDP cards..  GPU's aside, 60c water temp is WAY too high.  Unless I run full tilt on both my GPU and CPU for more than an hour (long enough to saturate the loop) my water temps are never more than a few degrees above ambient. Even saturated I hit water temps of 38c.  Something isn't right.

[NotTayyeb]

I have a r9 390.. cooler failed a few months back, so i slapped on a corsair h55 using the nzxt g10 bracket.....

 

Anyway, with no overclock, I get just under 65C under load with the h55 on it - h55 pump is always at 100% and the fan on the rad is around 80%, and around 28C at idle.. If i turn the radiator fan down to about 40%, i get around 85C under load.....

[Necrodead]

1 hour ago, Corrupt_Liberty said:

Was more along the lines of "I own the exact water cooling loop" and both the 390 and the 780 are 250W TDP cards..  GPU's aside, 60c water temp is WAY too high.  Unless I run full tilt on both my GPU and CPU for more than an hour (long enough to saturate the loop) my water temps are never more than a few degrees above ambient. Even saturated I hit water temps of 38c.  Something isn't right.

His Evolv isn't doing him any favours, with what looks like a single intake and his rads running exhaust, but we can't see the front fans so those could be intakes. He could probably get slightly better temps running the back fan as exhaust and the rads as intakes, especially if his front rad is intake, he is pulling warm air from the front and running it through the top rad. 

 

Also the 780 and 390 may have the same TDP, but that does not mean they put out the same amount of heat. The chips are a different architecture, different die size and have different VRM solutions. Fact is we just can't compare them, the 780 is more efficient and puts out less specific heat.

 

His water temps are high but I put that down to the evolv. I had a 760T with a 290 and 8350 and water temps easily hit 50C with a triple 140mm, dual 140mm and a single 140mm rad with a total of 8 fans at 1400rpm, and that was in a case with lots of airflow. I also had a similar setup with 4x 120mm rad space and 4 fans with a 295x2, and that almost blew up on me it got so hot. People who haven't experienced the heat output fro a hawaii chip probably won't understand how hot they actually get. 

 

I don't think his temps will be a problem with actual gaming, and like I said he could improve temps by making all his rads intakes. He could also put a couple more fans on the front rad if he could fit them. Its just his system is at the limit of how much heat it can handle with only 4x 120mm fans/rads.

 

I'm also gonna go out on a limb and assume he is using the EKWB SE slim rads that perform particularly badly at all fan speeds, because thats what it looks like. Check out the relitive performance of the SE rads compared to the rest here. 

 

 

 

 

 

[B0G3N]

14 hours ago, Corrupt_Liberty said:

Was more along the lines of "I own the exact water cooling loop" and both the 390 and the 780 are 250W TDP cards..  GPU's aside, 60c water temp is WAY too high.  Unless I run full tilt on both my GPU and CPU for more than an hour (long enough to saturate the loop) my water temps are never more than a few degrees above ambient. Even saturated I hit water temps of 38c.  Something isn't right.

Yes, my cooling setup is having an EK SE 240 in the front as intake, using two F3 Vardar (1850 rpm) fans in push. The top rad is an EK PE 240 rad with two corsair SP120 (quiet ed, 1450 rpm) fans in push as exhaust. The rear fan was set as intake to get some positive pressure, but I can turn it around and see how that works out. 

 

I am using a bitspower temperature sensor connected to the temperature probe input on my motherboard. It gives a temperature readout in the motherboard software (AI suite 3), and seems pretty on point. 

15 hours ago, Necrodead said:

Also pump speed will not affect your temps unless you go below 1gpm (gallon per minute) and you pretty much can't do that with a DDC or D5, so turn it down if you want it to be quieter. 

Good to know, thanks!

12 hours ago, Necrodead said:

His Evolv isn't doing him any favours, with what looks like a single intake and his rads running exhaust, but we can't see the front fans so those could be intakes. He could probably get slightly better temps running the back fan as exhaust and the rads as intakes, especially if his front rad is intake, he is pulling warm air from the front and running it through the top rad. 

 

Also the 780 and 390 may have the same TDP, but that does not mean they put out the same amount of heat. The chips are a different architecture, different die size and have different VRM solutions. Fact is we just can't compare them, the 780 is more efficient and puts out less specific heat.

 

His water temps are high but I put that down to the evolv. I had a 760T with a 290 and 8350 and water temps easily hit 50C with a triple 140mm, dual 140mm and a single 140mm rad with a total of 8 fans at 1400rpm, and that was in a case with lots of airflow. I also had a similar setup with 4x 120mm rad space and 4 fans with a 295x2, and that almost blew up on me it got so hot. People who haven't experienced the heat output fro a hawaii chip probably won't understand how hot they actually get. 

 

I don't think his temps will be a problem with actual gaming, and like I said he could improve temps by making all his rads intakes. He could also put a couple more fans on the front rad if he could fit them. Its just his system is at the limit of how much heat it can handle with only 4x 120mm fans/rads.

 

I'm also gonna go out on a limb and assume he is using the EKWB SE slim rads that perform particularly badly at all fan speeds, because thats what it looks like. Check out the relitive performance of the SE rads compared to the rest here. 

 

 

 

 

 

I also have suspected the Hawaii core of my GPU to be working properly, just being a very warm GPU in general. However, to see if I had done anything wrong, I spent yesterday evening cleaning out my loop, re-applying thermal compound to both CPU and GPU, and I will have a go at doing some testing today or tomorrow. 

 

And as Necrodead says, I do not get these crazy temps when gaming; the GPU core usually stays around 65-70C when gaming, so that is a much more comfortable temperature range. I was just pushing the system to see if I still would be within the comfort zone in a "worst case" scenario, which I think I am not... Hah. 

 

Will get back to you when I have done some more testing, hopefully this may help other R9 390 users as well..  

 

On another note; While draining my system yesterday, I totally got to experience the bad placement of my drain port. The new loop will definately have a drain port at the lowest point, located next to the pump. 

Will also take some more photos on the rig, so you guys get a clearer picture of the system. 

Thanks for the help! 

[B0G3N]

Hi again, folks! 

This time, I bring interesting news. At least to me... 

As said, I was feeling a bit puzzled by the fact that my GPU was being so warm. After the feedback I have gotten here, I decided to do a few things:

- Drain the loop, move the drain valve to the lowest point in the loop (next to the pump).

- Re-apply thermal paste to both GPU core and CPU. Was out of paste, so picked up some Noctua NT-H1 paste from a close-by store. 

- Remove the standard Phanteks rear (intake) fan and install a Noctua NF-A14 200 0RPM fan (that I had lying around from another PC) as exhaust. 
- Fill the loop and redo testing

 

Turns out, when using the overclock I have on my MSI R9 390 Gaming card (1150MHz/1575MHz, +100 Aux voltage and +100 Power limit), the GPU core stays as low as 55^oC when all rad fans are running at max and the rear exhaust is running at 1000 RPM. The water got to 43^oC, and stayed there during the whole testing period of one hour using Valley benchmark. 

I do not know whether it was the previous thermal compound not being correctly applied or if it was the change in type of compound that did the trick (possibly both?). Anyways, a major thanks to suggestions in this thread. That said, the loop still gets warm, just not as warm as before..

 

Anyways, here is the current build:

 

So, next question is; Do I go for hard tubing next? And in that case, would you then keep the pump/res combo or exchange with a separate pump and reservoir? And where do I in that case put the res?

Cheers!