Fraps vs NVIDIA's ShadowPlay

[Ozpa]

http://www.geforce.com/geforce-experience/shadowplay

 

Hi everyone

 

I've been using Fraps for over 5 years now to record in-game content. I've tried loads of other recording programs over the years but I'm really curious about ShadowPlay. I have read all the details on their page, seeing they use a "dedicated hardware H.264 video encoder" with an output of "50 Mbps" it should prove way less taxing on the actual ingame FPS while you play. Fraps is great and all but they should've made a quality control slider a long time ago (Fraps's bitrate is around 300-400mbps if I recall correctly) which makes disk space an issue too at times.

 

My question is for avid Fraps users who have tried ShadowPlay for at least 3+ hours, how do you think these 2 compare? Just from the specifications published on their page SP should be perfect for me.

[Freaky_spider]

someone did some testing on it on this forum, ill have a look where it is

 

cant find it... sorry

[RatedBlam]

Doesn't fraps have a big performance hit while shadowplay is promised to have a tiny loss in performance.

Here's some forum stuff about it: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/70546-nvidia-shadowplay-review-benchmarks/, http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/70219-shadowplay-beta-review/

Ozpa

[Ozpa]

Doesn't fraps have a big performance hit while shadowplay is promised to have a tiny loss in performance.

Here's some forum stuff about it: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/70546-nvidia-shadowplay-review-benchmarks/, http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/70219-shadowplay-beta-review/

Ozpa

 

The 2nd link was pretty informative, I think I need to test it myself now. They just need to add an fps counter and a screenshot support (fingers crossed).

[Timmyfox]

No experience with Shadow Play but honestly, my experience with fraps is that it's fairly horrible for recording.

 

I've got 2 SSD's, a 256GB for the OS and programs and all that and a 128GB dedicated for games, less commonly used programs and other such things and a 1TB WD Black drive.

I've also got an i7 2600K CPU, 16GB of RAM and a HD7970 in my system.

Despite these specs, fraps HALVES my FPS when recording just about any game and makes it all feel horribly stuttery, to the point of being unplayable unless I set it to record half size (I'm gaming at 1080p).

Furthermore, their codec is fairly awful on 64bit systems so whenever I try to edit the recording, the output file has a very noticeable degradation in picture quality compared to the recording regardless what file format I render it as.

 

Fraps is the only recording software I've used that has these issues. Dxtory on the flip side has a very low performance impact if configured correctly the the picture quality of the finalized edited video is very close to that of the source.

 

From what I've heard about shadow play, the performance impact is minimal and the output file should have really good quality plus it's free with any supported Nvidia GPU.

[TheProfosist]

Yea we talked about this pretty extensivly in other threads.

[JohnnyGrey]

Are you on Windows 8.1 or 7? That will change your recording time in manual mode as well as the length of previous footage saved with Shadow mode. I've been using it for a day or two now, and so far so good. The recording seem to have some slight microstuttering here and there, but considering the minimal perforance impact, it's worth it. Apparently they'll be fixing the length limitations for Windows 7 later on.

[TheProfosist]

Are you on Windows 8.1 or 7? That will change your recording time in manual mode as well as the length of previous footage saved with Shadow mode. I've been using it for a day or two now, and so far so good. The recording seem to have some slight microstuttering here and there, but considering the minimal perforance impact, it's worth it. Apparently they'll be fixing the length limitations for Windows 7 later on.

shadow mode is cirrently only effected by os manual mode can do 20min across all OS's.

[JohnnyGrey]

shadow mode is cirrently only effected by os manual mode can do 20min across all OS's.

 

EDIT: I misread your comment. But still, both modes are impacted by OS. In Windows 7, manual mode still stops on it's own after reaching a file size limit, and must be manually started again. I believe the limit is 4gb. Windows 8 doesn't have this limit, and can record indefinitely depending on hard drive capacity. In reality, the limit really has nothing to do with Windows 7 itself, as it can easily handle files larger than 4gb, I think it's just bad programming/planning on Nvidia's part. Or using a weird type of H.264 codec.

 

DOUBLE EDIT: Actually, the file size limitation is a limitation of Windows 7. See below. There's nothing stopping Nvidia from having the software save multiple seamless 4gb files, though.

 

Source Link (Look under "Limitations")

Limitations

The maximum size of the authored file is 4 GB. In Windows 8, files large than 4 GBGB are supported.

Apparently the way Shadowplay creates/authors the file is different than say, transcoding a video using Handbrake, thus the 4gb limitation.

[rentaspoon]

Its not vs fraps but is worth looking at

[TheProfosist]

EDIT: I misread your comment. But still, both modes are impacted by OS. In Windows 7, manual mode still stops on it's own after reaching a file size limit, and must be manually started again. I believe the limit is 4gb. Windows 8 doesn't have this limit, and can record indefinitely depending on hard drive capacity. In reality, the limit really has nothing to do with Windows 7 itself, as it can easily handle files larger than 4gb, I think it's just bad programming/planning on Nvidia's part. Or using a weird type of H.264 codec.

DOUBLE EDIT: Actually, the file size limitation is a limitation of Windows 7. See below. There's nothing stopping Nvidia from having the software save multiple seamless 4gb files, though.

Apparently the way Shadowplay creates/authors the file is different than say, transcoding a video using Handbrake, thus the 4gb limitation.

Its not a win7 limit more of a 32bit limit but even then that would only be if the cache is in you ram possibly. Win7 and 8 both currently only do a 4gb file whether its 10 or 20min. The only other thing I can think of is that fat32 has a 4gb file limitation so they might be doing it for compatibility with devices that only support fat32 for their storage.

Multiple seamless files is do able but harder than you think most likely.

[Riddler356]

I thouhght in manual mode it allowed an unlimited continuous video file(s) as long as there is hard drive space, i'll tst tonoght. As for passive the last 20min are saved considering you choose to save it when you are done, or open it to save it.

[JohnnyGrey]

Its not a win7 limit more of a 32bit limit but even then that would only be if the cache is in you ram possibly.

 

I have a 64 bit O/S, and 8gb of RAM, and am still limited. This has nothing to do with a 32 bit operating system nor with FAT32. It is simply the fact that Nvidia chose to go with Windows 7's built in MP4 codec, and that codec only allows a max file size of 4gb. The built in MP4 codec in Windows 8 does not have this limitation. Continuous recording will be added in a future patch, though. (multiple 4gb files) 

 

TBH, I would prefer multiple 4gb writes over a huge file getting written at the end, as long as it supports continuous recording.

I thouhght in manual mode it allowed an unlimited continuous video file(s) as long as there is hard drive space, i'll tst tonoght. As for passive the last 20min are saved considering you choose to save it when you are done, or open it to save it.

 

On Windows 8, correct. Windows 7 is limited to the previous 10 minutes.

[TheProfosist]

I thouhght in manual mode it allowed an unlimited continuous video file(s) as long as there is hard drive space, i'll tst tonoght. As for passive the last 20min are saved considering you choose to save it when you are done, or open it to save it.

no it still caps on any OS to 20min at a size of up to 3.8gb which is just under the 4gb limit.

I have a 64 bit O/S, and 8gb of RAM, and am still limited. This has nothing to do with a 32 bit operating system nor with FAT32. It is simply the fact that Nvidia chose to go with Windows 7's built in MP4 codec, and that codec only allows a max file size of 4gb. The built in MP4 codec in Windows 8 does not have this limitation. Continuous recording will be added in a future patch, though. (multiple 4gb files) 

 

TBH, I would prefer multiple 4gb writes over a huge file getting written at the end, as long as it supports continuous recording.

 

On Windows 8, correct. Windows 7 is limited to the previous 10 minutes.

your wrong again I was giving possible reasons for having the 4gb limit not saying they were indeed the reasons. if you want the exact reason your going to have to go and ask nvidia about it. They are not using windows built in mp4 codec or anything of the sort, actually that statement just shows you dont know how shadow play works or even a MP4 for that matter.

There is no need to have separate files unless for some reason they think using FAT32 is the norm in todays world which it isnt.

The current max specification for files coming from Shadow Play (beta) are:

Win7 Shadow Time: 10 min 3.8gb

Win7 Manual: 20min 3.8gb

Win8/8.1 Shadow Time: 20min 3.8gb

Win8/8.1 Manual: 20min 3.8gb

[Riddler356]

The current max specification for files coming from Shadow Play (beta) are:

Win7 Shadow Time: 10 min 3.8gb

Win7 Manual: 20min 3.8gb

Win8/8.1 Shadow Time: 20min 3.8gb

Win8/8.1 Manual: 20min 3.8gb

 right now for me the settings on win 8 when set to max, Shadow = 20min 7.5GB, and manual there is no limit.

recordings are 1080p @ 60FPS

[SteepGnomeKing]

For me (680m = GTX670) the difference is less than 10% on the fps at high quality.

 

Where you might want to stick worth fraps for now, is that you can not record a microphone. Only game sound. I assume Mic will come when they introduce twitch streaming.

 

Local record over fraps, I doubt there is going to be a big difference. You will get smaller file size, but you still have to compress it to upload to youtube.

But once Twitch streaming starts up, having that h.264 encoder on the gpu will help a lot, reduce cpu usage and provide a much better stream.

 

Local   = Shadowplay or Fraps

Twitch = Shadowplay

[TheProfosist]

right now for me the settings on win 8 when set to max, Shadow = 20min 7.5GB, and manual there is no limit.

recordings are 1080p @ 60FPS

Hmm that might have been an update already because that contradicts what their article about it says. I should soon have a PC togther that has Win8.1 and a 670 so I can test that as well. I also game on a 2560x1440 so well see if it actually restricted to that.

[JohnnyGrey]

...I also game on a 2560x1440 so well see if it actually restricted to that...

 

Shadowplay downscales the recorded video to 1080p if gaming at 1440p. Even considering, the files don't look that bad. I'm sure they would look better if recorded originally while playing at 1080p.

 

 

your wrong again I was giving possible reasons for having the 4gb limit not saying they were indeed the reasons. if you want the exact reason your going to have to go and ask nvidia about it. They are not using windows built in mp4 codec or anything of the sort, actually that statement just shows you dont know how shadow play works or even a MP4 for that matter.

 

Actually, I was right, and you are in fact wrong. I can't find the original place he said it, but all over various forums, Andrew Burnes from Nvidia is quoted as saying the following regarding the reason behind the 4gb limitation:

 

"ShadowPlay uses the Windows MFT MP4 muxer to multiplex video and audio stream into one single MP4 file. This implementation on Win7 has the limitation of not being able to output valid MP4 file that is larger than 4GB. Win8 does not have this limitation."

I will continue to look for the original source.

[Riddler356]

Hmm that might have been an update already because that contradicts what their article about it says. I should soon have a PC togther that has Win8.1 and a 670 so I can test that as well. I also game on a 2560x1440 so well see if it actually restricted to that.

at the time i wrote that because i was running geforce experience 7.1. as for now it seems the same.

but it may record 20 minute files in manual but record multiple in series until you tell it to stop, i'm not sure of that, but i'm going to test it soon. i am running a 690ti boost.

[Weak1ings]

I haven't really used fraps because I believe a screen recording software should be free.  However I can confirm I noticed NO hit on performance with Shadowplay and the ability to use coms and "Shadow" your last 30 seconds of gaming not to mention (from what I heard) smaller file sizes.

[TheProfosist]

I haven't really used fraps because I believe a screen recording software should be free.  However I can confirm I noticed NO hit on performance with Shadowplay and the ability to use coms and "Shadow" your last 30 seconds of gaming not to mention (from what I heard) smaller file sizes.

They are different software used for different things and if it a good piece of software I see no reasoon why they cant charge for it.

[Weak1ings]

They are different software used for different things and if it a good piece of software I see no reasoon why they cant charge for it.

Probably the biggest part of Nvidia Shadowplay and Geforce experience is customer loyalty.  If you can get a person to buy only your products then you've won.

that is why Nvidia Shadowplay will be free.

[SkilledRebuilds]

Your looking for comparison... I've been using fraps (years ago) for many years... and have found a replacement that just is Awesome.

Also an AMD user, don't have the luxury of Shadowplay so my findings are from that perspective... Fraps VS Non-Shadow Alternatives

 

Aim = Bugger all FPS loss (under 5fps difference), even with 1080p 60fps @ High bitrates.

Can be done, as long as there aren't any real weak links in your system. ie: 5400 RPM HDD that only records 60Mb/s or less... isn't ideal compared to drives that can do 90Mb/s or above.

 

Using Windows 8 and MSI Afterburner you can use intel quicksync's onboard x264 encoder for recording DX9/10/DX11 games. Sounds like Shadowplay for Intel

In WIndows 7 its only DX9, Hence..... And I'm running W7 as a lot of people... so another alternate...

 

I use DXtory for 64bit, or MSI AB with the same x264 codec on the same settings for 32bit Games.

 

Driven from my CPU to record. Once the codec is setup correctly, most CPU's can use it for easy recording of (any resolution but common like) 720p/1080p 30-60fps on a dualcore or better.

 

MSI is free, so is the codec.

DXtory is more powerful in recording/streaming features and is worth the small price you pay.

 

 

Note* Performance penalty of x264 also beats on Lagarith Lossless for weaker CPU's. Mates laptop had Lagarith and couldnt produce 1080p above 30fps, but could do 720p 30fps.

Switched to x264 instead of lossless, kept the quality UP, was able to maintain 1080p 30fps capture on his laptop while keeping playable fps, instead of dropping recorded frames and having a huge performance penalty.

No more do you have 5-15fps or more taken away...!

 

Use DXtory, or MSI AB with the same x264 codec.

Considering youtube butchers all things, you don't need lossless for that, 1080p 30-60fps with non-lossless high settings, suffices.

[Cwazywazy]

With my 650ti I don't get fabulous FPS when recording with FRAPS (Like 25-35 in the game I do most of my videos in.) but Shadowplay makes no noticeable difference in FPS and the videos are a bit smaller too.

[SkilledRebuilds]

With my 650ti I don't get fabulous FPS when recording with FRAPS (Like 25-35 in the game I do most of my videos in.) but Shadowplay makes no noticeable difference in FPS and the videos are a bit smaller too.

Fraps has always been a heavy hitter, when you see some codec presets of "superfast, fast, normal, slow, placebo" I think fraps is more on the placebo slow side for its frame grabbing, where I can set other codecs to use superfast and they are brilliantly quick and have less noticible FPS loss.

 

Fraps for desktop recording is simple and quick, but game recording... was great, too many better alternatives out there...

 

But the word Fraps is default to most forum replies of "What can I use to record gameplay" < - needs to stop