Career Help

[Hackentosher]

So. I'm a junior in high school. College is just over the horizon and I thought I knew what I wanted to do until this week. Now this is all spawned from a couple existential crises in math, a subject that admitedadly I'm not great at, where I started questioning what I want to do with my life. Again. In the end, I want a career that makes me happy, something that utilizes one of the few passions I have left. 

 

I've been teaching myself CAD (Autodesk's Fusion 360 to be more specific) for years now, and designing/modeling things is one of my remaining passions. Okay great, I can go into industrial design, right? Well sure, but I'm concerned that field is too artistic and I'm pretty sure mechanical engineering is beyond my mathematical abilities and not really what I'm looking for. I've also been really interested and kinda involved with the maker movement, you may have noticed my three guides in my signature and activity in the Hobby Electonics sub forum. I guess my question is: is industrial design really what I'm looking for? Is there something else out there that will build on my pre-existing skills and passions? Is the answer to life, the universe, and everything really 42? Potato?

[biker]

Go see a guidance counseller thats what the tax dollar is paying them for.

 

 

You need to look at what the work force needs by the time you graduate and are in the work force.

 

[Hackentosher]

1 hour ago, biker said:

Go see a guidance counseller thats what the tax dollar is paying them for.

 

 

You need to look at what the work force needs by the time you graduate and are in the work force.

 

Don't have one at my school. 

[straight_stewie]

7 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

I can go into industrial design, right? Well sure, but I'm concerned that field is too artistic and I'm pretty sure mechanical engineering is beyond my mathematical abilities and not really what I'm looking for.

Industrial design is mostly based on artistic expression, although there are other components to it. What math classes have you had, and why do you think you're not doing good?

[Hackentosher]

1 minute ago, straight_stewie said:

Industrial design is mostly based on artistic expression, although there are other components to it. What math classes have you had, and why do you think you're not doing good?

Yeah that's kinda my worry, I'm not sure what a path would be called that would use the skills I have developed. Any ideas? I don't think "professional maker" exists at a corporation like Google or Apple.

 

I'm in Alg II and I'm probably going to take pre-calc next year for my future, although I really want to take a class called Quantitative Reasoning. It's basically real world math like taxes and shit. Sounds really interesting and really useful, but pre-calc would probably be a better choice for my path into college. 

 

As for math in general, it just doesn't come as easily as some things. Maybe I'm just a lazy asshole (who am I kidding, I'm a lazy asshole ), but all other subjects in school have come with less struggle in my scholastic experience.

[straight_stewie]

16 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

As for math in general, it just doesn't come as easily as some things

Math doesn't come easy to anyone. Well, that's not true. But it doesn't really come easily to anyone that either of us will ever meet. Everyone you meet in University, from Aerospace Engineer to International Business is going to struggle with math at some point. That's simply because, much like chemistry or physics, math involves alot of memorization, and memorization is boring and hard. 

 

16 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

I'm in Alg II and I'm probably going to take pre-calc next year for my future, although I really want to take a class called Quantitative Reasoning. It's basically real world math like taxes and shit. Sounds really interesting and really useful, but pre-calc would probably be a better choice for my path into college. 

In my experience, pre-calc isn't worth shit. It is not worth any college credit. The only benefit that pre-calc might have is to give you a heads up of what to expect in college calculus. What would help you the best is AP trig. Trigonometry is the hard one, and you have to know it, even if you don't have to know it. You will not be able to take college calculus without taking either AP trig or college trig. Let me repeat: Even business majors taking business calculus as their highest math are required to have trigonometry as a prerequisite. 

Barring AP trig (or even AP calc), I would go with "quantitative reasoning". It seems like that might actually teach a valid skill, and I wish that I had had an opportunity to be taught those things in high school.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

Yeah that's kinda my worry, I'm not sure what a path would be called that would use the skills I have developed. Any ideas? I don't think "professional maker" exists at a corporation like Google or Apple.

Just from seeing your activity around the forum, I think you are pretty similar to me. You want alot of general knowledge, but to still maintain the level of knowledge in each subject area that someone who has specialized has. That way you can just make things that pop into your head without any problem. My real recommendation would be to plan to do CS and minor in some other form of engineering (or physics) or major in some physical form of engineering and minor in CS. 

You can also look up potential careers on bls.gov, even if you don't live in the US. This will give you average salary, a general description, the predicted job growth, and the spread of college majors that have that job. That will help you figure things out. Be aware that a degree may open more doors than the one you are looking at. Aerospace engineers have been known to invent better sports "things", work on race cars, model grain flow through combine harvesters, model any fluid flowing such as turbines in power plants or air moving into an engine. The possibilities for many degrees are endless, and the knowledge you learn will apply to more areas than just one.

Let me just say this though: TALK TO A COLLEGE OR JUNIOR COLLEGE COUNSELOR/ACADEMIC ADVISOR BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY FINAL DECISIONS. 

 

 

[biker]

6 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

Don't have one at my school. 

Then you need to visit an outside guidance counsellor, government agency or NPO.

[Hackentosher]

1 hour ago, straight_stewie said:

Math doesn't come easy to anyone. Well, that's not true. But it doesn't really come easily to anyone that either of us will ever meet. Everyone you meet in University, from Aerospace Engineer to International Business is going to struggle with math at some point. That's simply because, much like chemistry or physics, math involves alot of memorization, and memorization is boring and hard. 

 

In my experience, pre-calc isn't worth shit. It is not worth any college credit. The only benefit that pre-calc might have is to give you a heads up of what to expect in college calculus. What would help you the best is AP trig. Trigonometry is the hard one, and you have to know it, even if you don't have to know it. You will not be able to take college calculus without taking either AP trig or college trig. Let me repeat: Even business majors taking business calculus as their highest math are required to have trigonometry as a prerequisite. 

Barring AP trig (or even AP calc), I would go with "quantitative reasoning". It seems like that might actually teach a valid skill, and I wish that I had had an opportunity to be taught those things in high school.

 

 

Just from seeing your activity around the forum, I think you are pretty similar to me. You want alot of general knowledge, but to still maintain the level of knowledge in each subject area that someone who has specialized has. That way you can just make things that pop into your head without any problem. My real recommendation would be to plan to do CS and minor in some other form of engineering (or physics) or major in some physical form of engineering and minor in CS. 

You can also look up potential careers on bls.gov, even if you don't live in the US. This will give you average salary, a general description, the predicted job growth, and the spread of college majors that have that job. That will help you figure things out. Be aware that a degree may open more doors than the one you are looking at. Aerospace engineers have been known to invent better sports "things", work on race cars, model grain flow through combine harvesters, model any fluid flowing such as turbines in power plants or air moving into an engine. The possibilities for many degrees are endless, and the knowledge you learn will apply to more areas than just one.

Let me just say this though: TALK TO A COLLEGE OR JUNIOR COLLEGE COUNSELOR/ACADEMIC ADVISOR BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY FINAL DECISIONS. 

 

 

Lmao not at my high school.

 

I'm not so worried about college credit as I am extra pre-rec classes I'll end up having to take. AZ is said to have a very strong community college system so I'm thinking about spending a year or two there getting those classes on the cheap so I can get to the fun stuff at a Californian or Washington university.

 

From what I gather, trig is baked into either Alg II or pre-calc at my school. That is of course why I'm considering taking QR, seems like it will teach some very valuable skills. However, my current math teacher brought up the very valid point that if I take a break from higher level math, it'll be harder to get back into it, especially in a condensed college class.

 

I have just about had it with standard, required classes. I want to get into something specific and really interesting. Hell, I might take a film class just for the hell of it. Sure being generally knowledgeable is all fine and dandy, but I'm ready for a specific course. What is this CS you're referring to? Computer Science? I like to use software, not make it  That being said, I'm kicking ass in physics and I certainly wouldn't mind learning more than the projectile motion the American school system has taught me so far.

 

Alright, good tip, thanks for that one; I'll be sure to check out that site. What really interests me is creating something from nothing. That's why I've devoted so much time to teaching myself CAD. That's why I pushed to get a 3D printer. The maker movement is cool and all, but what is that called in the professional/collegiate space? That's what I'm really looking for. I'm not so sure it's industrial design anymore, that seems more like drawing something out on paper with various different colored markers. That's not exactly my jam. My brain has always been able to visualize 3D objects pretty easily, which is probably why I've spent so much time doing the same thing on the computer. What I just want to know is how do I do that professionally?

[straight_stewie]

11 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

The maker movement is cool and all, but what is that called in the professional/collegiate space?

Engineering and computer science. There really isn't a professional equivalent of the maker movement. Atleast not one that you should plan your future around. If you become a research engineer at a place like Bell Labs, then that's just about as close as you would get to being a "maker", but even then, that's mostly limited to computing and communications. Let me be clear, those jobs are so prestigous that you can't even apply for them. They are generally internal recruiting jobs only.

In the general sense, being a maker that attempts to invent marketable products is called being an entrepenuer, and that calls for both technical and business knowledge.
 

11 minutes ago, Hackentosher said:

My brain has always been able to visualize 3D objects pretty easily, which is probably why I've spent so much time doing the same thing on the computer. What I just want to know is how do I do that professionally?

Engineering or an art degree. The question here is: Do you want to make 3d models of things that do something, or do you want to make 3d models that look like something?

I'm fairly convinced that you'd be happiest with some type of engineering. If you have the two years to spare, most JuCos offer a "pre-engineering" major. This will help you get your maths and general science stuff (chemistry, biology, basic physics) out of the way where class sizes are small and the teachers care. 

I really think that the best solution to you is to pick a broad area to focus on. Do you want to make things? Do you want to design/make things that meet complex reguirements? Do you want to draw 3d models and animations of such for games or movies? Do you want to design things in the artful sense, like making a phone look attractive? If you can answer these general questions, you can really narrow it down to a field in the broader sense, such as engineering, art, or design. 

Only after making a firm selection of the general field should you start worrying about the specific degree that you want. 

[Hackentosher]

7 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

Engineering and computer science. There really isn't a professional equivalent of the maker movement. Atleast not one that you should plan your future around. If you become a research engineer at a place like Bell Labs, then that's just about as close as you would get to being a "maker", but even then, that's mostly limited to computing and communications. Let me be clear, those jobs are so prestigous that you can't even apply for them. They are generally internal recruiting jobs only.

In the general sense, being a maker that attempts to invent marketable products is called being an entrepenuer, and that calls for both technical and business knowledge.
 

Engineering or an art degree. The question here is: Do you want to make 3d models of things that do something, or do you want to make 3d models that look like something?

I'm fairly convinced that you'd be happiest with some type of engineering. If you have the two years to spare, most JuCos offer a "pre-engineering" major. This will help you get your maths and general science stuff (chemistry, biology, basic physics) out of the way where class sizes are small and the teachers care. 

 

I really think that the best solution to you is to pick a broad area to focus on. Do you want to make things? Do you want to design/make things that meet complex reguirements? Do you want to draw 3d models and animations of such for games or movies? Do you want to design things in the artful sense, like making a phone look attractive? If you can answer these general questions, you can really narrow it down to a field in the broader sense, such as engineering, art, or design. 

Only after making a firm selection of the general field should you start worrying about the specific degree that you want. 

I like making things that are functional, maybe some kind of prototype engineer? Is that a thing? 

 

I dont think I have the patience, resources, or will power to be an entrepreneur. Especially not right out of college. 

 

I guess probably engineering then, since again I like making functional things. 

 

I'm starting to think some form of engineering with maybe a minor in a branch of physics. So far, I'm pretty good at whatever my high school physics class throws at me so it might not be a bad idea to continue in college. I mean I kinda want to do everything you've described, but I think maybe some sort of prototyping might be for me. 

[straight_stewie]

1 hour ago, Hackentosher said:

prototyping might be for me. 

Then engineering it is. Alot of your job will be iterating through parts designs to make a better design, or iterating through possible configurations of parts to find the most "optimal" given a set of criteria. 

I mean, I hate that the exact thing you want doesn't exist, but you can't get any closer than being an engineer of some type.

[Hackentosher]

44 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

Then engineering it is. Alot of your job will be iterating through parts designs to make a better design, or iterating through possible configurations of parts to find the most "optimal" given a set of criteria. 

I mean, I hate that the exact thing you want doesn't exist, but you can't get any closer than being an engineer of some type.

What flavor tho?

[straight_stewie]

7 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

What flavor tho?

If you had to pick one general type of thing to "make" for the rest of your life, what would it be?

 

[bimmerman]

Mech eng here. I'll be blunt.

 

First-- what you've described enjoying most closely mirrors a CAD draftsman. You would be expected to take an engineer's design and model it, and then work with the engineer to revise it, eventually sending it out for production in whatever method that ends up being (casting, molding, cnc, composite, etc). You would have little to zero independence in design, and as CAD tools are getting better and older engineers are retiring, there is less demand for this sort of role.

 

Industrial Design / product design is either pure art or a hybrid between art and engineering at many schools. You would be primarily responsible for the exterior of the design, and working with the more nuts and bolts engineers to ensure functionality isn't compromised by the form (or, vice versa).

 

In almost no circumstances will the engineer be the fabricator. Our bill rates are far too high to be the person actually creating the part, be it machining or injection molding or via additive manufacturing methods. In other words, if engineer time is worth $250/hr to the employer (this is highly disconnected from your actual hourly wage), why pay engineer rate to machine a widget for 3 hours when you pay $100/hr to a machinist to do it to a higher tolerance in only 1 hour? Answer, you don't. The 'maker' movement is less a movement and more a 'dammit, I no longer have free reign of the $100k HAAS CNC at school, let me figure out how to use a dremel and hot glue gun to do one off hobby projects on the cheap'

 

Finally-- math skills are highly interrelated with science classes. If you haven't had calculus or trigonometry yet at school (which is OK!), you have not been exposed to anything substantial in physics. I would not extrapolate a career choice based on algebra-based physics UNLESS you actually enjoy it!

 

If you want to do maker-type stuff, do maker-type stuff for fun. If you want to get paid to do maker-type stuff, the closest analog I know of is mechanical engineering...and the reality of that job is that maker-ing is not really a thing.

 

Software-wise....Fusion isn't used professionally for a variety of reasons (namely, huge pain in the ass). Solidworks is the de facto industry and academic standard. I'd recommend you buy a student license (~$100) and learn how to use that, then apply for CAD internships if you go down the engineering road. I got my first couple jobs that way.

 

I'd also recommend you ask around for programs where you can shadow people at their workplace, there has to be some sort of show n tell type thing. I also applaud the community college idea; go there and take classes in what interests you to figure out what you want to do as a career.