What is the best amp, dac, soundcard for gaming (no speakers)

[Terranamics]

What is the best amp, dac, and soundcard for gaming? (no speakers)     I currently have a Steelseries Arctis 7, so if you know of a better pair of headphones that are good for gaming that would help.

[Guest Kloaked]

There isn't a best. What is your budget and what kind of sound do you like?

[Oshino Shinobu]

The Steelseries Arctis 7 are wireless, so they have their own DAC and AMP built in, they won't use your PC's DAC and AMP, so it really makes no difference. 

 

I would be wary of buying audio equipment for "gaming". If you're wanting good quality, "gaming" audio is not the way to go most of the time as it's just average equipment with a price increase due to "gaming" marketing. 

 

Onboard audio is generally good enough for most people as long as the board is fairly recent. Though, that makes no difference for USB or wireless headsets like yours. 

[bgibbz]

No reason to get a soundcard for gaming, you wont notice a difference as modern onboard sound is generally pretty good. 

[Astralye]

I dont have it but i have heard that the Focusrite scarlett 2i2 is being well used as lots of people and they use it for gaming and music production so i would recommend that but take this as a grain of salt because i don't have it and look at other reviewers before deciding

[aithos]

33 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The Steelseries Arctis 7 are wireless, so they have their own DAC and AMP built in, they won't use your PC's DAC and AMP, so it really makes no difference. 

 

I would be wary of buying audio equipment for "gaming". If you're wanting good quality, "gaming" audio is not the way to go most of the time as it's just average equipment with a price increase due to "gaming" marketing. 

 

Onboard audio is generally good enough for most people as long as the board is fairly recent. Though, that makes no difference for USB or wireless headsets like yours. 

A couple things:

1) You're mostly correct about the wireless thing - you won't see any benefit by adding an amp, but a nice dac would still make a difference as that is what handles the signal that is sent to your headphones.  Although on principal I don't like or advise the use of wireless headphones except as a last option.

 

2) I agree that buying "gaming" equipment is dubious at best, the focus of most gear aimed at gamers is on being "cool" rather than being good.  It's a stigma that is very slowly changing in certain areas, but the fact is that most gaming stuff is overpriced and a bad value when you consider price/performance.

 

3) I disagree emphatically with your point about buying audio equipment for gaming.  Good audio equipment will drastically improve your experience regardless of what you're doing - gaming, movies, music, etc.  A good set of HD headphones with a decent amp/dac will provide significantly better gaming audio, including positional audio and the more obvious stuff like clarity and accuracy.

 

4) Onboard audio is only good enough if you don't care.  I have a high end enthusiast motherboard with HD audio capable of driving high impedence headphones that is on a separate logic board from the rest of the chips (IE: one of the best "on-board" audio solutions you can buy) and it doesn't even begin to come close to the performance of even a mediocre dedicated amp/dac.  A soundcard is better if you pick the right one, but again... it's not even close.  

 

To the OP: we really need more info if you want serious recommendations, the question "what is the best" is entirely dependent on your budget and how serious you are about audio.

 

Some basic amp/dacs:
- A decent Fiio is the entry point for a lot of people, not sure what the current model is called but the decent ones usually run $80-$100~
- A Schiit stack (modi/magni) or an o2+odac is the go-to for most audio people on a budget, both can be had for between $200-300 and are capable of running almost any headphones you can throw at it in the sub-$1500 range.

From there you're going to start to get into specific pairings and some more expensive stuff, but if you have the budget I HIGHLY recommend the Grace Design M9XX from Massdrop.  Those guys are known for extremely high end audio equipment and for $500 it's got the guts of their M920 that retails for several times more, it's a really good amp/dac and by far the best thing you'll find under $1000.

 

For Headphones:
- Sennheiser HD598s are the entry point for a lot of people, if you get them on a good sale they are extremely affordable (less than many high end gaming headsets) and they sound significantly better.  They can be powered decently without an amp, but they sound MUCH better with a decent one.  
- AKG K7XX are a slight step up and are a really good value for $200, especially considering that AKG is a respected name that are known to be excellent gaming headphones.  They have a very clear/neutral sound so the clarity is excellent, and the soundstage is fantastic which also means very good positional audio. They are a little picky about amplification, but something like the mid tier amp/dac above would be fine.
- Sennheiser HD650 are what many people consider the best all-around headphone for the money in the world.  They easily compete with stuff that is double or even triple the price, they have a very pleasing warm sound and they aren't too picky about amplification so you can start small and upgrade your amp/dac later if the higher price for the headphones stretches your budget.  These are my every day headphones and they are great.

Beyond that you're going to start getting into specialty stuff and a bit pricier options.  Although there are some good products from companies like Audio Technica (ATH series) that if you like more bass are a good option, and the Fostex TH-X00 from Massdrop are amazing as a second set of headphones for music and occasional gaming if you have more to spend...

 

Note: I saw the poster above mention the focusrite scarlett 2i2 and I think they are confused about what that is for.  That's an interface intended for connecting and powering balanced audio devices such as high end microphones, guitars and so forth.  You can use it as an amp for your headphones but you would still need a DAC and frankly it wasn't intended to be a headphone amp.  The headphone jacks on those are meant for studio usage, not sound quality.  I have one and use it for playing guitar through headphones and for recording with my expensive condenser mic, but I NEVER use it for audio or gaming.

[Oshino Shinobu]

3 minutes ago, aithos said:

1) You're mostly correct about the wireless thing - you won't see any benefit by adding an amp, but a nice dac would still make a difference as that is what handles the signal that is sent to your headphones.  Although on principal I don't like or advise the use of wireless headphones except as a last option.

2) I agree that buying "gaming" equipment is dubious at best, the focus of most gear aimed at gamers is on being "cool" rather than being good.  It's a stigma that is very slowly changing in certain areas, but the fact is that most gaming stuff is overpriced and a bad value when you consider price/performance.

3) I disagree emphatically with your point about buying audio equipment for gaming.  Good audio equipment will drastically improve your experience regardless of what you're doing - gaming, movies, music, etc.  A good set of HD headphones with a decent amp/dac will provide significantly better gaming audio, including positional audio and the more obvious stuff like clarity and accuracy.

4) Onboard audio is only good enough if you don't care.  I have a high end enthusiast motherboard with HD audio capable of driving high impedence headphones that is on a separate logic board from the rest of the chips (IE: one of the best "on-board" audio solutions you can buy) and it doesn't even begin to come close to the performance of even a mediocre dedicated amp/dac.  A soundcard is better if you pick the right one, but again... it's not even close.  

To the OP: we really need more info if you want serious recommendations, the question "what is the best" is entirely dependent on your budget and how serious you are about audio.

1) The wireless headphones use USB to connect to the system, which is a digital interface. From my understanding, the signal sent to the headphones is digital, then is converted to analogue by a DAC built into the headphones. I may be understanding things wrong, but from that basis, a new DAC won't make a difference because the headphones are not receiving audio from that DAC, but rather converting the digital signal with the inbuilt one. 

 

3) I didn't say you shouldn't buy audio gear for gaming. I said to be wary of buying "gaming" audio gear, as in audio gear that is marketed as being for "gaming". A good audio setup will definitely benefit gaming as it can make it easier to pick up differences between sounds and maybe hear sounds that were drowned out on worse audio equipment. Still, my point was only that "gaming" audio equipment is normally average gear but maybe tuned a bit to sound "better" in some games, something that could be better achieved with a good audio setup and some fiddling with an EQ.

 

4) I'd say an awful lot of people are in the "don't care" category, or at least, "don't care enough". I personally have a nice pair of headphones with a dedicated DAC and AMP stack, but if I asked any of my friends, even after trying my audio setup, if they would be willing to spend the £350-£400 it costs on the audio gear, they all say no. Especially gamers, as £400 is more than enough for a good GPU upgrade or a bunch of new games. Audio is an area overlooked by a lot of people when building a PC, a lot of the time because people are okay with decent audio that can be had on modern boards, or would simply rather spend the money elsewhere. If you ask me, I'd say the vast majority of users are fine with onboard audio and don't care enough to make a relatively large investment in good audio gear. 

[anothertom]

24 minutes ago, aithos said:

1) You're mostly correct about the wireless thing - you won't see any benefit by adding an amp, but a nice dac would still make a difference as that is what handles the signal that is sent to your headphones.  Although on principal I don't like or advise the use of wireless headphones except as a last option.

 

10 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

1) The wireless headphones use USB to connect to the system, which is a digital interface. -snip-

Interestingly, you're both right and you're both wrong. The steelseries Arctis 7 have both analog and USB connections, so it depends on how the OP uses them to determine which of you guessed the right scenario. Personally i'd guess OP uses USB, as you won't get the surround features over a 3.5mm connection.

 

27 minutes ago, aithos said:

Note: I saw the poster above mention the focusrite scarlett 2i2 and I think they are confused about what that is for.  That's an interface intended for connecting and powering balanced audio devices such as high end microphones, guitars and so forth.  You can use it as an amp for your headphones but you would still need a DAC and frankly it wasn't intended to be a headphone amp.  The headphone jacks on those are meant for studio usage, not sound quality.  I have one and use it for playing guitar through headphones and for recording with my expensive condenser mic, but I NEVER use it for audio or gaming.

While i agree that @Astralye isn't quite sure what it is meant for, the 2i2 can be used as both an input and an output device and as definition it includes both ADC and DAC. I probably wouldn't be using it for gaming as they are known to induce lag when not used with specific software, and i haven't had the chance to try using one as an output, but i don't imagine it sounds bad.

[aithos]

55 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

1) The wireless headphones use USB to connect to the system, which is a digital interface. From my understanding, the signal sent to the headphones is digital, then is converted to analogue by a DAC built into the headphones. I may be understanding things wrong, but from that basis, a new DAC won't make a difference because the headphones are not receiving audio from that DAC, but rather converting the digital signal with the inbuilt one. 

 

3) I didn't say you shouldn't buy audio gear for gaming. I said to be wary of buying "gaming" audio gear, as in audio gear that is marketed as being for "gaming". A good audio setup will definitely benefit gaming as it can make it easier to pick up differences between sounds and maybe hear sounds that were drowned out on worse audio equipment. Still, my point was only that "gaming" audio equipment is normally average gear but maybe tuned a bit to sound "better" in some games, something that could be better achieved with a good audio setup and some fiddling with an EQ.

 

4) I'd say an awful lot of people are in the "don't care" category, or at least, "don't care enough". I personally have a nice pair of headphones with a dedicated DAC and AMP stack, but if I asked any of my friends, even after trying my audio setup, if they would be willing to spend the £350-£400 it costs on the audio gear, they all say no. Especially gamers, as £400 is more than enough for a good GPU upgrade or a bunch of new games. Audio is an area overlooked by a lot of people when building a PC, a lot of the time because people are okay with decent audio that can be had on modern boards, or would simply rather spend the money elsewhere. If you ask me, I'd say the vast majority of users are fine with onboard audio and don't care enough to make a relatively large investment in good audio gear. 

I misunderstood what you were saying about the audio gear, the way you worded it made it sound like you were making two statements (that gaming audio gear is iffy and that audio equipment isn't much of an improvement for gaming).  So we don't disagree on that at all.  I also don't disagree with you about the "don't care" category and that most people wouldn't be willing to spend that money on an audio setup.  However, that's purely through ignorance and it isn't really their fault...

 

For one thing, just like with anything "high end" - audio, video, camera equipment, hell even art supplies... the difference to someone who isn't very familiar with the products will mean very little.  Why pay hundreds of dollars for colored pencils when some $5 crayola will do the job?  The answer to an artist is obvious: better quality, better color, better consistency, better blending, etc.  To a five year old: it doesn't matter. 

 

I view audio and video as being the same and you can get a great perspective on it in any 60hz vs 120hz+ thread ever.  People who haven't spent any amount of time gaming on a 120hz monitor with ULMB (lightboost) or who never gamed on a good CRT back in the day simply don't know what they are missing.  It takes time to get used to that kind of frame-rate, and while it doesn't become immediately apparent if you go back to 60hz after 4-6 months you'll notice a HUGE difference. 

 

It's the same with audio.  I wouldn't expect anyone who doesn't have a trained ear (either vocalist, musician or audiophile) to sit down with an expensive setup and immediately notice the intricacies.  Will they notice it sounds better than what they have?  Sure, of course.  What they are missing is the sheer breadth of how big the gap is, and what it means to the overall experience.  I'm a big fan of both good audio and video equipment and I'm still constantly amazed at how major a small upgrade can be.

 

For example, I bought an Asus PG279Q when they became available (1440p, IPS/PLS, 120hz+, ULMB, 4ms response) and I was *shocked* by how much better it was than my Korean overclocked monitor (1440p, IPS/PLS, 110hz, 8ms response).  It was night and day.  The same thing happened when I went from my onboard amp/dac (which is decent on an Asus ROG Maximus VI Formula) to a dedicated one.  It was a bigger jump in audio quality than going from a non-HD onboard sound with a gaming headset to the HD audio with some HD650s. 

 

In the end, for me what made the difference in audio is the little things.  When I'm playing CSGO I hear things clearly that with onboard sound and a gaming headset would be muddy if you even picked it up at all.  It isn't that somehow you miraculously feel like the people are all around you, it's that you're getting a proper soundstage and good clarity of sound.  Once you get used to it there's no going back, it's like hearing a $10,000 home theater and then going over to a friend's house where he has a $200 home theater in a box... you just won't ever look at it the same again.

 

Some people don't care - and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that.  I do care and obviously you do too, but I think the real issue is that most audio people don't know how to "sell" the experience... not that it doesn't make a big money impression.  Also, I'd argue that a good amp/dac and headphone purchase can't be compared to a video card... yeah you can buy that video card but it's out of date in 2-3 years.  A good audio setup can last 10-15 without any problem.  It's a much longer term purchase, and it will often retain a measure of value for resale where that video card isn't worth a box of Lucky Charms by the time you're upgrading it.

[Terranamics]

5 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

There isn't a best. What is your budget and what kind of sound do you like?

My budget is around $450, and I have no experience with this kind of thing so I really don't know anything else

[Terranamics]

2 hours ago, aithos said:

A couple things:

1) You're mostly correct about the wireless thing - you won't see any benefit by adding an amp, but a nice dac would still make a difference as that is what handles the signal that is sent to your headphones.  Although on principal I don't like or advise the use of wireless headphones except as a last option.

 

2) I agree that buying "gaming" equipment is dubious at best, the focus of most gear aimed at gamers is on being "cool" rather than being good.  It's a stigma that is very slowly changing in certain areas, but the fact is that most gaming stuff is overpriced and a bad value when you consider price/performance.

 

3) I disagree emphatically with your point about buying audio equipment for gaming.  Good audio equipment will drastically improve your experience regardless of what you're doing - gaming, movies, music, etc.  A good set of HD headphones with a decent amp/dac will provide significantly better gaming audio, including positional audio and the more obvious stuff like clarity and accuracy.

 

4) Onboard audio is only good enough if you don't care.  I have a high end enthusiast motherboard with HD audio capable of driving high impedence headphones that is on a separate logic board from the rest of the chips (IE: one of the best "on-board" audio solutions you can buy) and it doesn't even begin to come close to the performance of even a mediocre dedicated amp/dac.  A soundcard is better if you pick the right one, but again... it's not even close.  

 

To the OP: we really need more info if you want serious recommendations, the question "what is the best" is entirely dependent on your budget and how serious you are about audio.

 

Some basic amp/dacs:
- A decent Fiio is the entry point for a lot of people, not sure what the current model is called but the decent ones usually run $80-$100~
- A Schiit stack (modi/magni) or an o2+odac is the go-to for most audio people on a budget, both can be had for between $200-300 and are capable of running almost any headphones you can throw at it in the sub-$1500 range.

From there you're going to start to get into specific pairings and some more expensive stuff, but if you have the budget I HIGHLY recommend the Grace Design M9XX from Massdrop.  Those guys are known for extremely high end audio equipment and for $500 it's got the guts of their M920 that retails for several times more, it's a really good amp/dac and by far the best thing you'll find under $1000.

 

For Headphones:
- Sennheiser HD598s are the entry point for a lot of people, if you get them on a good sale they are extremely affordable (less than many high end gaming headsets) and they sound significantly better.  They can be powered decently without an amp, but they sound MUCH better with a decent one.  
- AKG K7XX are a slight step up and are a really good value for $200, especially considering that AKG is a respected name that are known to be excellent gaming headphones.  They have a very clear/neutral sound so the clarity is excellent, and the soundstage is fantastic which also means very good positional audio. They are a little picky about amplification, but something like the mid tier amp/dac above would be fine.
- Sennheiser HD650 are what many people consider the best all-around headphone for the money in the world.  They easily compete with stuff that is double or even triple the price, they have a very pleasing warm sound and they aren't too picky about amplification so you can start small and upgrade your amp/dac later if the higher price for the headphones stretches your budget.  These are my every day headphones and they are great.

Beyond that you're going to start getting into specialty stuff and a bit pricier options.  Although there are some good products from companies like Audio Technica (ATH series) that if you like more bass are a good option, and the Fostex TH-X00 from Massdrop are amazing as a second set of headphones for music and occasional gaming if you have more to spend...

 

Note: I saw the poster above mention the focusrite scarlett 2i2 and I think they are confused about what that is for.  That's an interface intended for connecting and powering balanced audio devices such as high end microphones, guitars and so forth.  You can use it as an amp for your headphones but you would still need a DAC and frankly it wasn't intended to be a headphone amp.  The headphone jacks on those are meant for studio usage, not sound quality.  I have one and use it for playing guitar through headphones and for recording with my expensive condenser mic, but I NEVER use it for audio or gaming.

Thanks, that helps a lot

[Guest Kloaked]

13 minutes ago, Terranamics said:

My budget is around $450, and I have no experience with this kind of thing so I really don't know anything else

All of these posts in this thread have me more confused now and I would advise you to ignore them since they don't look like what you're actually looking for at all. So I'm going to ask you some questions.

 

So what do you specifically want in a headphone?

 

Do you want open backs? Those will generally have a wider sound stage and are recommended above getting headphones with simulated surround sound, as the audio quality won't get degraded and you can pinpoint panned audio better than you could with closed back headphones.

 

Do you like more bass than usual? Getting a headphone with the appropriate sound signature that you want would be better than doing any EQ'ing as much as possible. Why do any EQ'ing when you can get a headphone that will sound like what you want in the first place?

 

Do you need a microphone? We can make recommendations based on your situation. Do you have enough room on your desk for a desktop mic (preferred), or would you prefer one that's on the headphone?

[Terranamics]

3 hours ago, aithos said:

A couple things:

1) You're mostly correct about the wireless thing - you won't see any benefit by adding an amp, but a nice dac would still make a difference as that is what handles the signal that is sent to your headphones.  Although on principal I don't like or advise the use of wireless headphones except as a last option.

 

2) I agree that buying "gaming" equipment is dubious at best, the focus of most gear aimed at gamers is on being "cool" rather than being good.  It's a stigma that is very slowly changing in certain areas, but the fact is that most gaming stuff is overpriced and a bad value when you consider price/performance.

 

3) I disagree emphatically with your point about buying audio equipment for gaming.  Good audio equipment will drastically improve your experience regardless of what you're doing - gaming, movies, music, etc.  A good set of HD headphones with a decent amp/dac will provide significantly better gaming audio, including positional audio and the more obvious stuff like clarity and accuracy.

 

4) Onboard audio is only good enough if you don't care.  I have a high end enthusiast motherboard with HD audio capable of driving high impedence headphones that is on a separate logic board from the rest of the chips (IE: one of the best "on-board" audio solutions you can buy) and it doesn't even begin to come close to the performance of even a mediocre dedicated amp/dac.  A soundcard is better if you pick the right one, but again... it's not even close.  

 

To the OP: we really need more info if you want serious recommendations, the question "what is the best" is entirely dependent on your budget and how serious you are about audio.

 

Some basic amp/dacs:
- A decent Fiio is the entry point for a lot of people, not sure what the current model is called but the decent ones usually run $80-$100~
- A Schiit stack (modi/magni) or an o2+odac is the go-to for most audio people on a budget, both can be had for between $200-300 and are capable of running almost any headphones you can throw at it in the sub-$1500 range.

From there you're going to start to get into specific pairings and some more expensive stuff, but if you have the budget I HIGHLY recommend the Grace Design M9XX from Massdrop.  Those guys are known for extremely high end audio equipment and for $500 it's got the guts of their M920 that retails for several times more, it's a really good amp/dac and by far the best thing you'll find under $1000.

 

For Headphones:
- Sennheiser HD598s are the entry point for a lot of people, if you get them on a good sale they are extremely affordable (less than many high end gaming headsets) and they sound significantly better.  They can be powered decently without an amp, but they sound MUCH better with a decent one.  
- AKG K7XX are a slight step up and are a really good value for $200, especially considering that AKG is a respected name that are known to be excellent gaming headphones.  They have a very clear/neutral sound so the clarity is excellent, and the soundstage is fantastic which also means very good positional audio. They are a little picky about amplification, but something like the mid tier amp/dac above would be fine.
- Sennheiser HD650 are what many people consider the best all-around headphone for the money in the world.  They easily compete with stuff that is double or even triple the price, they have a very pleasing warm sound and they aren't too picky about amplification so you can start small and upgrade your amp/dac later if the higher price for the headphones stretches your budget.  These are my every day headphones and they are great.

Beyond that you're going to start getting into specialty stuff and a bit pricier options.  Although there are some good products from companies like Audio Technica (ATH series) that if you like more bass are a good option, and the Fostex TH-X00 from Massdrop are amazing as a second set of headphones for music and occasional gaming if you have more to spend...

 

Note: I saw the poster above mention the focusrite scarlett 2i2 and I think they are confused about what that is for.  That's an interface intended for connecting and powering balanced audio devices such as high end microphones, guitars and so forth.  You can use it as an amp for your headphones but you would still need a DAC and frankly it wasn't intended to be a headphone amp.  The headphone jacks on those are meant for studio usage, not sound quality.  I have one and use it for playing guitar through headphones and for recording with my expensive condenser mic, but I NEVER use it for audio or gaming.

What is the difference between the hd650's and hd600?