GTX 670 or wait for 700 series?

[Cs342]

Wow the Titan gets demolished by the 7970 in Tomb Raider (although I don't even have Tomb Raider so that doesn't affect me)! Certainly seems like the 7970 is a much better buy than the 670 (even though all the 670 reviews I've read suggest that it's faster than the stock 7970). Not sure what I missed when reading the 670 reviews...

And also I have a 750W PSU so I don't think I will want to run Hybrid PhysX with my GTX 460 (not many games use PhysX anyway). I was thinking about the XFX 7970 Double Dissipation, has anyone had experience with that (coil whine issues, heat, noise, etc)?

[GPUXPert]

Wow the Titan gets demolished by the 7970 in Tomb Raider (although I don't even have Tomb Raider so that doesn't affect me)! Certainly seems like the 7970 is a much better buy than the 670 (even though all the 670 reviews I've read suggest that it's faster than the stock 7970). Not sure what I missed when reading the 670 reviews... And also I have a 750W PSU so I don't think I will want to run Hybrid PhysX with my GTX 460 (not many games use PhysX anyway). I was thinking about the XFX 7970 Double Dissipation' date=' has anyone had experience with that (coil whine issues, heat, noise, etc)? [/quote']

You've probably been reading old reviews as the 670 was indeed faster than the 7970 @ stock when it was first launched, although after September AMD released quite a few really big driver releases that improved general performance thourgh memory access optimizations and specific game related performance as well.

Now a slightly overclocked 7970 is even faster than the more expensive GTX 680.

Here are some reviews after the major driver breakthroughs .

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7970_X_Turbo/28.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/59265-his-hd-7970-iceq-x-hd-7950-iceq-x-review.html

As for the XFX 7970 double dissipation, it's probably one of the best overclockers out there, the card's built quality is also top notch, the cooler on it perhaps not the best but it's one of the quietest.

I'd personally recommend either the XFX 7970 or the Sapphire Dual-x 7970, as both are good cards with unlocked voltage control to satisfy your overclocking needs.

The dual fan HIS model is also one of the best out there, but it's slightly more expensive.

The Gigabyte 7970 however is voltage locked and quite noisy when overclocked, so I'd avoid that one.

I hope this helps.

[Cs342]

Wow the Titan gets demolished by the 7970 in Tomb Raider (although I don't even have Tomb Raider so that doesn't affect me)! Certainly seems like the 7970 is a much better buy than the 670 (even though all the 670 reviews I've read suggest that it's faster than the stock 7970). Not sure what I missed when reading the 670 reviews... And also I have a 750W PSU so I don't think I will want to run Hybrid PhysX with my GTX 460 (not many games use PhysX anyway). I was thinking about the XFX 7970 Double Dissipation' date=' has anyone had experience with that (coil whine issues, heat, noise, etc)? [/quote']

You've probably been reading old reviews as the 670 was indeed faster than the 7970 @ stock when it was first launched, although after September AMD released quite a few really big driver releases that improved general performance thourgh memory access optimizations and specific game related performance as well.

Now a slightly overclocked 7970 is even faster than the more expensive GTX 680.

Here are some reviews after the major driver breakthroughs .

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7970_X_Turbo/28.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/59265-his-hd-7970-iceq-x-hd-7950-iceq-x-review.html

As for the XFX 7970 double dissipation, it's probably one of the best overclockers out there, the card's built quality is also top notch, the cooler on it perhaps not the best but it's one of the quietest.

I'd personally recommend either the XFX 7970 or the Sapphire Dual-x 7970, as both are good cards with unlocked voltage control to satisfy your overclocking needs.

The dual fan HIS model is also one of the best out there, but it's slightly more expensive.

The Gigabyte 7970 however is voltage locked and quite noisy when overclocked, so I'd avoid that one.

I hope this helps.

thank you so much for your helpful response! I can actually purchase the XFX 7970 for around the same price as a GTX 670, so if it beats even the 680 then that is a major deal. And also I've read that the 8000 series will not be arriving until sometime in 2014, so a 7970 would probably be a good investment until I build a new PC (I have a watercooled 2600K so I really doubt I would need to upgrade, even when Haswell is released).

[WhiskyHunter]

Yeah the AMD never settle drivers that were launched back in October, gave AMD a very sizable edge over Nvidia .

Also don't forget that the 7970 is a beast overclocker, even before the driver updates, a 7970 overclocked to the max would beat a 680 overclocked to the max.

I remember reading an article where they compared the 7970 lightning to the 680 lightning, they overclocked both as much as possible and the 7970 won, this was back in the summer before the big driver updates.

[TechFan@ic]

Wow the Titan gets demolished by the 7970 in Tomb Raider (although I don't even have Tomb Raider so that doesn't affect me)! Certainly seems like the 7970 is a much better buy than the 670 (even though all the 670 reviews I've read suggest that it's faster than the stock 7970). Not sure what I missed when reading the 670 reviews... And also I have a 750W PSU so I don't think I will want to run Hybrid PhysX with my GTX 460 (not many games use PhysX anyway). I was thinking about the XFX 7970 Double Dissipation' date=' has anyone had experience with that (coil whine issues, heat, noise, etc)? [/quote']

You've probably been reading old reviews as the 670 was indeed faster than the 7970 @ stock when it was first launched, although after September AMD released quite a few really big driver releases that improved general performance thourgh memory access optimizations and specific game related performance as well.

Now a slightly overclocked 7970 is even faster than the more expensive GTX 680.

Here are some reviews after the major driver breakthroughs .

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7970_X_Turbo/28.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/59265-his-hd-7970-iceq-x-hd-7950-iceq-x-review.html

As for the XFX 7970 double dissipation, it's probably one of the best overclockers out there, the card's built quality is also top notch, the cooler on it perhaps not the best but it's one of the quietest.

I'd personally recommend either the XFX 7970 or the Sapphire Dual-x 7970, as both are good cards with unlocked voltage control to satisfy your overclocking needs.

The dual fan HIS model is also one of the best out there, but it's slightly more expensive.

The Gigabyte 7970 however is voltage locked and quite noisy when overclocked, so I'd avoid that one.

I hope this helps.

Don't forget to register the XFX 7970 once you buy it, in order to get the lifetime warranty you need to register the card within 30 days of purchase.

[TechFan@ic]

That's why people love the 7950 and 7970 cards, once they're overclocked they take on a completely different league, outperforming cards 200$ more expensive.

[Cs342]

Sounds good, I think I'll go with the 7970.

[Cs342]

Btw how come in some reviews the 670 performs exactly the same, or even better than, the 680? Doesn't make sense, even if it was overclocked.

[Noble2501]

A EVGA 670 FTW is also nice

[asymptoteat0]

You'll be better off with going for the 670 now rather than waiting for the next gen parts. Again that comes down to how often your upgrade cycle is and whether you need the extra power window. You could end up waiting forever if you keep thinking about the next-gen products. I guess its just better to analyze your particular use case and map the same to things like budget (if any), upgrade cycle, performance needs, gains over upgrading to the next generation, etc.

[Cs342]

I thought the 7970 was better...

[Cs342]

Yeah the AMD never settle drivers that were launched back in October, gave AMD a very sizable edge over Nvidia .

Also don't forget that the 7970 is a beast overclocker, even before the driver updates, a 7970 overclocked to the max would beat a 680 overclocked to the max.

I remember reading an article where they compared the 7970 lightning to the 680 lightning, they overclocked both as much as possible and the 7970 won, this was back in the summer before the big driver updates.

I see the rationale behind getting a 7970, since it would destroy the 670 and possibly even the 680, but I have a feeling I'll be missing out on PhysX and adaptive Vsync. Any thoughts?

[MattDaemontools]

I thought the 7970 was better...

The 7970 is in fact better.

Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, Techpowerup & Hardware Canucks all show the 7970 beating out the 670 at stock and the 680 @ GHz Edition clocks.

You also get superior AA & 2560x1440 performance + 3GB of RAM .

And currently you get Crysis 3 + Bioshock Infinite for free.

I doubt anyone would buy a 670 right now unless they were either miss-informed or a die hard Nvidia fan.

[TechFan@ic]

Yeah the AMD never settle drivers that were launched back in October, gave AMD a very sizable edge over Nvidia .

Also don't forget that the 7970 is a beast overclocker, even before the driver updates, a 7970 overclocked to the max would beat a 680 overclocked to the max.

I remember reading an article where they compared the 7970 lightning to the 680 lightning, they overclocked both as much as possible and the 7970 won, this was back in the summer before the big driver updates.

You can't do much about PhysX, it doesn't really matter in my opinion since only 1 or 2 good games a year support it.

AMD has Dynamic V-Sync, ATi cards supported Dynamic V-Sync for years and years, I'm surprised not many have heard of it.

In any case, it's better than Adaptive V-Sync and it works on all Radeon cards not just the 7000 series.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-7970-x2,3329-11.html

[Cs342]

I thought the 7970 was better...

The 7970 is in fact better.

Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, Techpowerup & Hardware Canucks all show the 7970 beating out the 670 at stock and the 680 @ GHz Edition clocks.

You also get superior AA & 2560x1440 performance + 3GB of RAM .

And currently you get Crysis 3 + Bioshock Infinite for free.

I doubt anyone would buy a 670 right now unless they were either miss-informed or a die hard Nvidia fan.

Where I live the 7970 does not come with games though, and also I may want PhysX and Adaptive Vsync... not sure if the extra performance of the 7970 (i'm not going to be gaming at 2560x1600) will make up for those lost features as well as silence and temps.

[Cs342]

Yeah the AMD never settle drivers that were launched back in October, gave AMD a very sizable edge over Nvidia .

Also don't forget that the 7970 is a beast overclocker, even before the driver updates, a 7970 overclocked to the max would beat a 680 overclocked to the max.

I remember reading an article where they compared the 7970 lightning to the 680 lightning, they overclocked both as much as possible and the 7970 won, this was back in the summer before the big driver updates.

Is Dynamic Vsync better than Adaptive? I'm slightly confused

[TechFan@ic]

Yeah the AMD never settle drivers that were launched back in October, gave AMD a very sizable edge over Nvidia .

Also don't forget that the 7970 is a beast overclocker, even before the driver updates, a 7970 overclocked to the max would beat a 680 overclocked to the max.

I remember reading an article where they compared the 7970 lightning to the 680 lightning, they overclocked both as much as possible and the 7970 won, this was back in the summer before the big driver updates.

Yes it is, you can see a comparison here :

RadeonPro Dynamic V-Sync for AMD cards : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-7970-x2,3329-11.html

Nvidia Adaptive V-Sync for 600 series cards : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-7970-x2,3329-10.html

[TERAFLOP]

Like others have stated, AMD has Dynamic V-Sync which is awesome (I've been using it ever since I learned about it). Non reference 7970s like the Sapphire dual-x, vapor-x, MSI lightning, Asus DCUII, Gigabyte Windforce, HIS X or Powercolor PCS+, XFX Double Dissipation all have great coolers which will keep the card cool and quiet.

The "silence and temps" only make a valid argument if you compare a reference 670 to a reference 7970, a 670 is quieter but its also runs considerably hotter.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-670-review,3200-13.html

Nvidia keeps their cards running quietly by sacrificing temperature, AMD does the opposite , it doesn't matter though at all because you can set your own fan curves using something like Riva tuner or MSI afterburner to get the best temps/noise combination.

I personally know someone who had a reference 680 that sold it and got a 7970 lightning instead because it was running so hot in his 800D case (over 94c while playing Civilization V).

As far as PhysX goes, It's really up to you to decide whether its something that's worth it.

The way I think about it is, performance affects every game, while physx only affects a game or two a year, so is performance more important or is physx more important.

To be completely frank with you, chances are you won't even notice physx while playing a physx supported game.

[WhiskyHunter]

Check out Linus's graphics card showdowns, the 7970 beat the 670 in every single game so far, sometimes by a huge margin.

[Cs342]

Okay you guys all seems to be leaning towards the 7970. I'm convinced :) Just one more thing though - the 7970 is only faster than a GTX 670 right now because of driver optimizations - who's to say that Nvidia won't release a massive driver update that makes the Geforce cards perform even better? Since it took AMD a year to make the 7000 series cards this fast, is it possible that Nvidia will do the same thing? Since the 670 was faster than a 7970 upon release, it seems like there is more potential performance to unlock.

[TechFan@ic]

Okay you guys all seems to be leaning towards the 7970. I'm convinced :) Just one more thing though - the 7970 is only faster than a GTX 670 right now because of driver optimizations - who's to say that Nvidia won't release a massive driver update that makes the Geforce cards perform even better? Since it took AMD a year to make the 7000 series cards this fast' date=' is it possible that Nvidia will do the same thing? Since the 670 was faster than a 7970 upon release, it seems like there is more potential performance to unlock.[/quote']

The Nvidia Kepler (600 seres) architecture is the same Fermi (400 & 500 series) architecture but without all the compute, that's why it's much more efficient and because it's basically the same architecture Nvidia doesn't have to rewrite drivers to optimize the cards.

AMD's Southern Islands GCN Graphics Core Next (7000 series) on the other hand is a brand new completely different architecture and I do mean completely different, it isn't like any previous AMD/ATI architecture and that's why AMD had to completely rewrite the drivers for it, which included the massive memory access improvements that improved the performance substantially at the end of the summer.

AMD still believes that there is more potential performance to be had from the 7000 series, and they stated that during 2013 they plan on releasing more driver optimizations for GCN to tap deep and extract more overall performance.

Now all of this aside, even before the driver updates in late summer, an overclocked 7950 was still beating an overclocked 670 .

Linus made a video with the intent to showcase the overclocking performance of the 660 Ti Power Edition back when it had unlocked voltage control & the video unintentionally ended up revealing the incredible performance of the 7950.

So even without fancy drivers the Tahiti chips (7970/7950) are still fantastic.

[Cs342]

Hey guys, sudden change of plans - I may not have the budget for a 670/7970. What do you think of a 660Ti power edition from MSI?

[TechFan@ic]

Hey guys' date=' sudden change of plans - I may not have the budget for a 670/7970. What do you think of a 660Ti power edition from MSI?[/quote']

Like I stated before, since you can't overvolt anymore, the power edition now is like any other 660 Ti.

And you are far better off with a 7870 Tahiti LE which is cheaper and faster or a 7950 which costs the same and is even faster than a 680 when overclocked.

Bear in mind BF3 is Nvidia optimized, so even with the Nvidia optimizations the 7950 still comes on top.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_7950_X2_Boost/31.html

[Cs342]

problem is the 7950 costs pretty much the same as 7970 over here, but theres a HUGE price difference between the 660ti and 7950, and the 660ti and the 670.

[GPUXPert]

Lol this is dragging on quite a bit lol.

In terms of actual performance after overclocking, the GPU hierarchy is currently.

GTX Titan> HD 7970> HD 7950 > GTX 680> GTX 670 > HD 7870 Tahiti LE> GTX 660 Ti > HD 7870 > GTX 660 > HD 7850 > HD 7790 > GTX 650Ti & HD 7770 tied > HD 7750 > GTX 650

Nvidia has 3 monitors +1 aux surround,3D vision, PhysX & Adaptive V-Sync.

AMD has Eyfinity 6 monitors, HD3D,TressFX & Dynamic V-Sync.

AMD cards also usually have more RAM and have unlocked voltage, while Nvidia cards usually have less ram and locked voltage.