Black Hole Speeds

[Gamboodle]

If a black hole has infinite density, would that mean in has infinite mass? And if it has infinite mass, and the more mass you have, the faster you go, then does it have an infinite speed?

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Grieferrimix said:

If a black hole has infinite density, would that mean in has infinite mass? And if it has infinite mass, and the more mass you have, the faster you go, then does it have an infinite speed?

A Black hole doesn't have infinite density. You could probably calculate the density based on the mass of the Black Hole, and the size of it.

[Canada EH]

You need to talk to Neil deGrasse and watch his videos on YT.

[dalekphalm]

52 minutes ago, Canada EH said:

You need to talk to Neil deGrasse and watch his videos on YT.

Loves me some NdG. He's goddamn amazing.

[TheRandomness]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

A Black hole doesn't have infinite density. You could probably calculate the density based on the mass of the Black Hole, and the size of it.

Well, it does have a retardedly high mass.. and density..

[dalekphalm]

Just now, TheRandomness said:

Well, it does have a retardedly high mass.. and density..

True. In both cases. But that density is not infinite, which is what the OP assumed

[Canada EH]

Neil deGrasse Tyson is a rock star "nerd"

[Kimmers]

A black hole does not have infinite mass. It has infinite density due to having such a small volume. As to speed, everything is limited to the speed of light. 

[dalekphalm]

10 minutes ago, Kimmers said:

A black hole does not have infinite mass. It has infinite density due to having such a small volume. As to speed, everything is limited to the speed of light. 

By definition, if it has finite mass, it has finite density. It may have practically infinite density, but there will be some measurable figure. The small volume is not zero or null, the volume is just incredibly tiny.

[LucasDerpYT]

I did research on this. I don't know the exact speed, but I do know that it goes fast enough to ''spaghettify'' objects.

It stretches out something. Though it does go over 186K Miles PER SECOND. So, yea pretty ******* fast. 

[Kimmers]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

By definition, if it has finite mass, it has finite density. It may have practically infinite density, but there will be some measurable figure. The small volume is not zero or null, the volume is just incredibly tiny.

Not quite because volume can be infinitesimally small. density is mass/volume. Thus, you can have finite mass but infinite density.

[Atmos]

4 hours ago, Kimmers said:

A black hole does not have infinite mass. It has infinite density due to having such a small volume. As to speed, everything is limited to the speed of light. 

*Nothing is faster than light.

That statement, is itself, backwards. Probably the one phrase that stuck with me after my astronomy courses in university. Our professor, who is also an astrophysicist working at nasa's jpl, wrote that on the board and asked us what it meant. Not a single person in the lecture hall got it right.

 

It means quite literally what it says. There is something faster than light, and that is nothing.

Now, that doesn't really mean much. Since 'nothing' can carry no information it makes it useless to us, but that 'nothing' is still 'something'.

 

Well, that statement and the fact that no matter where you are, the observer is always at the center of expansion of the universe. Most people comprehend the sentence "the universe is expanding" as meaning its moving away from each other through empty space, like something exploding. Though, that's entirely wrong. You can have two quantum anchored points in space, which are entirely fixed, not moving, and the space between them will continue to grow, because it is the void of space expanding between them. meaning basically, no matter how you try to calculate the expansion of the universe, you the observer are always at the center.

 

 

 

 

As for blackholes, they don't have infinite mass. Their mass is finite, it can be calculated by the total accumulation of matter from surrounding space and what it starts with at the core of the star it formed in. It does however have infinite density. We have no way of calculating it. In theory, it's commonly accepted now that a blackhole's density and subsequent gravitational force is so incalculable that it literally squeezes the matter inside it out of existence entirely, though the mass from that matter remains. Mind boggling isnt it. God I loved those classes. The universe and its workings are really seriously weird.

[TheRandomness]

3 hours ago, LucasDerpYT said:

I did research on this. I don't know the exact speed, but I do know that it goes fast enough to ''spaghettify'' objects.

It stretches out something. Though it does go over 186K Miles PER SECOND. So, yea pretty ******* fast. 

Soaghettification occurs from the huge amount of gravity, not speed. 

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, Kimmers said:

Not quite because volume can be infinitesimally small. density is mass/volume. Thus, you can have finite mass but infinite density.

 

6 hours ago, Atmos said:

*Nothing is faster than light.

That statement, is itself, backwards. Probably the one phrase that stuck with me after my astronomy courses in university. Our professor, who is also an astrophysicist working at nasa's jpl, wrote that on the board and asked us what it meant. Not a single person in the lecture hall got it right.

 

It means quite literally what it says. There is something faster than light, and that is nothing.

Now, that doesn't really mean much. Since 'nothing' can carry no information it makes it useless to us, but that 'nothing' is still 'something'.

 

Well, that statement and the fact that no matter where you are, the observer is always at the center of expansion of the universe. Most people comprehend the sentence "the universe is expanding" as meaning its moving away from each other through empty space, like something exploding. Though, that's entirely wrong. You can have two quantum anchored points in space, which are entirely fixed, not moving, and the space between them will continue to grow, because it is the void of space expanding between them. meaning basically, no matter how you try to calculate the expansion of the universe, you the observer are always at the center.

 

 

 

 

As for blackholes, they don't have infinite mass. Their mass is finite, it can be calculated by the total accumulation of matter from surrounding space and what it starts with at the core of the star it formed in. It does however have infinite density. We have no way of calculating it. In theory, it's commonly accepted now that a blackhole's density and subsequent gravitational force is so incalculable that it literally squeezes the matter inside it out of existence entirely, though the mass from that matter remains. Mind boggling isnt it. God I loved those classes. The universe and its workings are really seriously weird.

 

 

I know that modern science cannot measure the density of a black hole, because of the fact that we can't see past the event horizon. And I certainly claim to be no expert. I'm not a PhD Astrophysicist. But I do question the claim that a black hole has infinite density.

 

I don't believe it's infinitesimally small. It's just so small that we cannot measure it. For practical purposes, that might make it equivalent of infinity, but I don't think that's true to the concept. One Physicist theorizes that the size of the singularity goes down the a Quantum Planck Length (10^-35 meters)

See Question #2

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/30/ten-things-you-dont-know-about-black-holes/#.V91FK62-Gc8

 

And again here:

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/physics/86-the-universe/black-holes-and-quasars/general-questions/423-what-is-the-density-of-a-black-hole-advanced

 

They're talking about how it's "Infinitely Dense", but not because it's actually infinitely dense, but rather because we don't have a viable theory for Gravity Interactions at the Quantum Level. We simply aren't sure.

 

I guess that's splitting hairs, but the idea of it being infinitely dense just doesn't sit well with me. That mass is still there, and if a Black Hole evaporates, that mass is then returned to the rest of the universe. So it had to go somewhere. It didn't just get compacted into nothingness.

[Kimmers]

5 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

 

 

I know that modern science cannot measure the density of a black hole, because of the fact that we can't see past the event horizon. And I certainly claim to be no expert. I'm not a PhD Astrophysicist. But I do question the claim that a black hole has infinite density.

 

I don't believe it's infinitesimally small. It's just so small that we cannot measure it. For practical purposes, that might make it equivalent of infinity, but I don't think that's true to the concept. One Physicist theorizes that the size of the singularity goes down the a Quantum Planck Length (10^-35 meters)

See Question #2

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/30/ten-things-you-dont-know-about-black-holes/#.V91FK62-Gc8

 

And again here:

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/physics/86-the-universe/black-holes-and-quasars/general-questions/423-what-is-the-density-of-a-black-hole-advanced

 

They're talking about how it's "Infinitely Dense", but not because it's actually infinitely dense, but rather because we don't have a viable theory for Gravity Interactions at the Quantum Level. We simply aren't sure.

 

I guess that's splitting hairs, but the idea of it being infinitely dense just doesn't sit well with me. That mass is still there, and if a Black Hole evaporates, that mass is then returned to the rest of the universe. So it had to go somewhere. It didn't just get compacted into nothingness.

You keep mentioning the mass is still there. Yes, we have established that the mass is finite. But you can still have infinitely dense object due to its volume. Also a planck length is not an exact measure either, it's an estimation and can vary. 

 

You can also have mass with no volume at all. For example, point particles with mass.

 

and yes a lot of things about space are currently unknown. However, black holes are widely accepted to be infinitely dense due to how compact the singularity is expected to be but again, everything is theoretical. Which begs the philosophical question, what is truth, but we wont get into that