Sennheiser PC 373D vs?

[DutchTexan]

Hello, I am strongly considering a pair of Sennheiser 373D’s for gaming and general media consumption. Are there other headphones in the market that this competes directly with? I have been trying to find a better option. I enjoy the fact that it is usb and much easier for a noob like to take advantage of that without purchasing a DAC. This is the same reason I think I will be purchasing a pair of Vanatoo Transparent One speakers.

 

On the other hand, if I were to buy the less expensive version of the 373D’s, with essentially the same drivers ect and purchase a set of Audioengine A2+. Then, spend the price discrepancy, about $320, on a nice DAC and amplifier or whatever I would need to utilize the audio equipment.

[PKValkyrie]

What is your budget? 
Are you looking for closed or open back?
Are you looking for headphone or headset? (Distinction is the included mic, instead of headphone with mod mic)

Headsets that are "audiophile" grade and in my opinion worth looking into are:

Closed back:
MMX-300 Beyerdynamic (included usb dac)
Custom One Pro Beyerdynamic (optional OEM boom mic conversion)
ATH-AG1 AudioTechnica (included usb dac)
M-100, M-80 V-Moda (optional OEM boom mic conversion)
Game Zero Sennheiser

Open back:
ATH-ADG1 AudioTechnica (included usb dac)
Game One Sennheiser

 

I've disregarded anything that has included VSS "virtual surround sound".

I would personally look into this setup...

Objective 2 ODAC/AMP Combo + Mod Mic 4.0 + AD900X AudioTechnica
(AD700X is widely regarded as the best budget positional headset though with anemic bass that is more corrected by the AD900X. If money was no object I would keep the ODAC, Mod mic and use the Sennheiser HD800 Non S version. S version has a plug that causes low frequency distortion to tame the treble)

As for speaker systems (much more subjective and larger opinion base) I personally love the MM-1 Bower Wilkins or Focal XS 2.1

 

[DutchTexan]

1 hour ago, PKValkyrie said:

What is your budget? 
Are you looking for closed or open back?
Are you looking for headphone or headset? (Distinction is the included mic, instead of headphone with mod mic)

Headsets that are "audiophile" grade and in my opinion worth looking into are:

Closed back:
MMX-300 Beyerdynamic (included usb dac)
Custom One Pro Beyerdynamic (optional OEM boom mic conversion)
ATH-AG1 AudioTechnica (included usb dac)
M-100, M-80 V-Moda (optional OEM boom mic conversion)
Game Zero Sennheiser

Open back:
ATH-ADG1 AudioTechnica (included usb dac)
Game One Sennheiser

 

I've disregarded anything that has included VSS "virtual surround sound".

I would personally look into this setup...

Objective 2 ODAC/AMP Combo + Mod Mic 4.0 + AD900X AudioTechnica
(AD700X is widely regarded as the best budget positional headset though with anemic bass that is more corrected by the AD900X. If money was no object I would keep the ODAC, Mod mic and use the Sennheiser HD800 Non S version. S version has a plug that causes low frequency distortion to tame the treble)

As for speaker systems (much more subjective and larger opinion base) I personally love the MM-1 Bower Wilkins or Focal XS 2.1

 

 

 

I honestly know just about nothing about audio hardware. I’m not an audiophile, but I can appreciate clean sound. I am mostly interested in some sort of competitive advantage in FPS. My motherboard has 7.1 ‘high quality’ audio, but I will just take that as basic audio with lost of audio ports. I am not too concerned with the microphone. I could use it or not miss it at the same time. I want to spend a reasonable amount of money reasonably, haha. As long as it is a good investment and a solid value. I am looking for audio for my skull and then some slightly better than average audio for my room. I also wear glasses and I suppose that is a big factor for headsets/headphones. I am not absolutely sure between open or closed. What are the advantages between the two? Just acoustics? I am really just looking for a quality set for gaming and occasional media consumption at night. Gaming in regards toward hearing footsteps and discriminating shooting locations. General consumption as in music and videos.

 

I like the ear cuffs of the MMX-300 Beyerdynamic. They are similar to the 373D’s; I really like those velvet-style ear cuff padding material, because I wear glasses and I heard from reviews that the 373d’s are comfortable with glasses. 

 

Custom One Pro Beyerdynamic seems pretty nice. What do you think about their Beyerdynamic DT 990? Or the T90? Would the T90 be a shame to use 80% of the time for gaming? I also really appreciate “Made in Germany” Really really really appreciate it. 

 

ATH-AG1 AudioTechnica just look a little off to me. I don’t like the appearance or the reviews on amazon.

 

Audio-Technica ATH-ADG1X are very nice and probably comfortable, but I am concerned about the reviews on Amazon.

 

I am very attracted to the M-100 V-MODA headphones. My only concern is if my glasses would be comfortable with them on for long periods of time. 

 

 

Learning time:

If I were to buy a Objective 2 ODAC/AMP Combo could I utilize them for both speakers and headphones? Just not at the same time? 

What would you change about these headphones or these headphones with this DAC combo and these $250 speakers?

What is the benefit of having a really nice converter? For gaming?

What is the benefit of having a really nice amplifier? For gaming?

Realistically, what kind of difference would the two formers make to great audio hardware? Poor quality audio hardware?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of open or closed headphones?

What do you think about Vanatoo Transparent One’s, if I never bought a DAC? 

Which surround sound, 5.1 or 7.1, headphones would you say are all around the best for under $400?

Which stereo headphones would you say are the best for gaming under $400?

 

Sorry for all the questions  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MoraisGT]

1 hour ago, PKValkyrie said:

What is your budget? 
Are you looking for closed or open back?
Are you looking for headphone or headset? (Distinction is the included mic, instead of headphone with mod mic)

Headsets that are "audiophile" grade and in my opinion worth looking into are:

Closed back:
MMX-300 Beyerdynamic (included usb dac)

I just want to clarify this.

 

The MMX300's DO NOT have a integrated usb dac.

[PKValkyrie]

@MoraisGT Thanks for the correction. I could have sworn mine came with one similar to the ATH ADG1. 

 

@DutchTexan I'm currently at work with a full case load of patients. I'll answer more questions when I'm home.

 

Open back are perforated or grilled driver enclosures that lets sound bleed put into your surrounding environment and increases the sound stage. Open backs are often lacking bass.

 

Closed back are sound isolating and has smaller sound stages. Much improved low end but sometimes can get hot and tighter seal on the ears.

 

Sound stage is the perceived ability to image where sound is coming from. Open backs are king for competitive gaming. Movies are imo better with closed back for the thump and booms. Vss virtual surround is sound that is eq'd give a muddy distorted sound that leaves a faux surround sound.

True surround 5.1 or 7.1 headsets have multiple drivers that are much smaller and have a very tinny sound that is not pleasant.

 

Dac/amps are one and the same as sound cards. Integrated means internally shielded hardware but external is always better as there is less interference. Dacs quiet the noise floor (hiss) while amps provide more power to the drivers (impedance of headset will mean how much power it takes to drive the drivers Ex your mother board will have a hard time driving 600 ohm planar magnetics and would be whisper quiet)

 

Amps come in either solid state (which delivers uncolored amplification that is sterile), while tube amps are often times said to be warmer as it introduces distortion that some people like.

 

V moda has very tight clamping force that is not pleasant with glasses while the audio technica has very light clamping force due to their 3d wing support. Great for glasses.

 

The velour ear pads you've refered to are quite nice and less hot than their leather counterparts but also isolate less. The audiotechnica has foam pads that breath well but remember that it will in turn have less low end.

 

[DutchTexan]

On September 14, 2016 at 1:24 PM, PKValkyrie said:

@MoraisGT Thanks for the correction. I could have sworn mine came with one similar to the ATH ADG1. 

 

@DutchTexan I'm currently at work with a full case load of patients. I'll answer more questions when I'm home.

 

Open back are perforated or grilled driver enclosures that lets sound bleed put into your surrounding environment and increases the sound stage. Open backs are often lacking bass.

 

Closed back are sound isolating and has smaller sound stages. Much improved low end but sometimes can get hot and tighter seal on the ears.

 

Sound stage is the perceived ability to image where sound is coming from. Open backs are king for competitive gaming. Movies are imo better with closed back for the thump and booms. Vss virtual surround is sound that is eq'd give a muddy distorted sound that leaves a faux surround sound.

True surround 5.1 or 7.1 headsets have multiple drivers that are much smaller and have a very tinny sound that is not pleasant.

 

Dac/amps are one and the same as sound cards. Integrated means internally shielded hardware but external is always better as there is less interference. Dacs quiet the noise floor (hiss) while amps provide more power to the drivers (impedance of headset will mean how much power it takes to drive the drivers Ex your mother board will have a hard time driving 600 ohm planar magnetics and would be whisper quiet)

 

Amps come in either solid state (which delivers uncolored amplification that is sterile), while tube amps are often times said to be warmer as it introduces distortion that some people like.

 

V moda has very tight clamping force that is not pleasant with glasses while the audio technica has very light clamping force due to their 3d wing support. Great for glasses.

 

The velour ear pads you've refered to are quite nice and less hot than their leather counterparts but also isolate less. The audiotechnica has foam pads that breath well but remember that it will in turn have less low end.

 

Thanks for all the information and your time. I have been working an odd shift this week. Sorry that I have failed to get back to you.

 

I am now thinking that I should just get some inexpensive, decent stereo headphones and a DAC. I am going to invest in a sound system later. For now, I am thinking under $300 for headphones for gaming.

What combo would you recommend in that price range that would be comfortable with glasses?

 

I would prefer an open back design. I really, really want them to have thick velvet ear cuffs or accept some other ear cuffs/pad things.

 

Headphones: 

beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80

Beyerdynamic DT-880

Sennheiser HD 598

Sennheiser GAME ONE

 

DAC:

FiiO A3 Portable (I think this would be cool if I wanted to listen in my backyard)

FiiO E10K USB DAC

SMSL SD793-II PCM1793 DIR9001

 

That is just to give you an idea of what I came up with, but I am totally up for some other recommendations. I really don’t know what I am doing, haha. Maybe a solid $100 DAC and a solid $150 headphone? I’ve noticed some headphones have ranges that the $75 DAC won’t touch, but then I also hear that realistically I won’t be able to hear anything below 20Hz and above 15ish KHz. Spending $200 on headphones and $100 on a DAC to me seems like it is not optimized, because the DAC wouldn’t be up to work with the headphone or vice versa an expensive DAC will only get so much out of cheap headphones, however you cut the pricing. I really don’t know where the sweet spot would be for Headphones + DAC for above $200 but less than $300. 

 

Just for curiosity, what DAC would you recommend for a Sennheiser HD 650 or Sennheiser HD 600?

 

 

 

[DutchTexan]

1 hour ago, DutchTexan said:

Thanks for all the information and your time. I have been working an odd shift this week. Sorry that I have failed to get back to you.

 

I am now thinking that I should just get some inexpensive, decent stereo headphones and a DAC. I am going to invest in a sound system later. For now, I am thinking under $300 for headphones for gaming.

What combo would you recommend in that price range that would be comfortable with glasses?

 

I would prefer an open back design. I really, really want them to have thick velvet ear cuffs or accept some other ear cuffs/pad things.

 

Headphones: 

beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80

Beyerdynamic DT-880

Sennheiser HD 598

Sennheiser GAME ONE

 

DAC:

FiiO A3 Portable (I think this would be cool if I wanted to listen in my backyard)

FiiO E10K USB DAC

SMSL SD793-II PCM1793 DIR9001

 

That is just to give you an idea of what I came up with, but I am totally up for some other recommendations. I really don’t know what I am doing, haha. Maybe a solid $100 DAC and a solid $150 headphone? I’ve noticed some headphones have ranges that the $75 DAC won’t touch, but then I also hear that realistically I won’t be able to hear anything below 20Hz and above 15ish KHz. Spending $200 on headphones and $100 on a DAC to me seems like it is not optimized, because the DAC wouldn’t be up to work with the headphone or vice versa an expensive DAC will only get so much out of cheap headphones, however you cut the pricing. I really don’t know where the sweet spot would be for Headphones + DAC for above $200 but less than $300. 

 

Just for curiosity, what DAC would you recommend for a Sennheiser HD 650 or Sennheiser HD 600?

 

 

 

@SSL Hi friend :1

 

If you don’t mind, could you discriminate your expertise once again? I am sold on the Vanatoo speakers you recommended. Could you recommend headphones and a DAC strictly for the headphones for around $300? Open back design is desired, but not crucial. Thick velvet style ear cushions, because I wear glasses and I hear those are the best cushions for that situation. Maybe aftermarket cushions could work if they are oem leather-type? I would say solid 50/50 usage for gaming and media consumption. Flat as possible, as I am not a bass junkie. I will probably wear them on average about 4 hours a time. I will get an external microphone if I ever do require one.

 

I would really appreciate any input you have.  

[PKValkyrie]

@DutchTexan

I would recommend no dac as it would not be as impactful as having better headphones.

If you are truly deadset then the Fiio E10K Olympus 2 is good enough for its price range (lots of features such as high gain and bass boost toggle).

 

The beyerdynamics, I would ignore the 770 as it is closed back. The 880 are semi open and the 990 are openback but do take note the beyers all have multiple ranges of impedance for each series that can range up to 600 ohm. The Fiio E10K drives up to 300. 

 

I would suggest the AD1000X Audiotechnica as a $300.00 option or you could go AD900X with the Fiio E10K and still have enough for a mod mic.

The Beyerdynamic 990 is also a great choice though you will experience fatigue due to the clamp force. 

 

Here is a comprehensive list of headphones and headsets I would recommend reading over. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added

 

Oem pads: depending on the sound signature you want it can vary from fabric, velour, leather and gel. In that same order you will experience more noise isolation, boost in the low end but also experience more trapped heat. I like velour for my closed back but fabric for my openback.

[DutchTexan]

@PKValkyrie Thanks man. I guess I don’t need a DAC? Ive been reading about my motherboards onboard audio, it appears like its good, but I cant find any real specs. They advertise it pretty well, I guess. 

 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z170A-GAMING-M5.html#hero-overview

 

There’s a lot of other information about isolation and EMI-sheilded processors. I don’t know if this is any good, but good enough not to need a DAC for 300ish ohm impedance headphones? 

 

 

I think I am between your recommendation and Sennheiser HD 600. 

[PKValkyrie]

@DutchTexan

 

Correction: your mobo is stated to drive headphones that have an impedance upwards of 600

The driver sensitivity of the HD600 is 300 ohm, it should be fine. If you do have a noisy floor then I would look into a dac, though I find msi does a decent enough job on their onboard audio and shielding.

 

I've never auditioned the HD600 (though reading the comparison of the HD600 to the HD650, people tend to say the HD650 have a darker or warmer signature) but I assume it to be similar to the HD800 (sterile, clinical listening with peaks at the highs) 

Headfi seems to love it. I'd say go for the headphones and try them with your mobo. 

 

Depending on preference of sound and if you like a warmer signature, tube amps would be less clinical and sterile sounding.

 

At this price point you now notice deminishing returns on sound quality to dollar.