Car Sub in house using PC PSU or 12v Transformer?

[Gershy13]

So i want to connect up my car sub (with amp) to stuff around my house.. currently i have it running using a old 150w computer psu... but when it goes past a certain volume, it stops working (150w probably isnt enough...) So im trying to decide if i should get one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcingmap-AC110V-Switch-Supply-Driver/dp/B019RNKWDU/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1467629807&sr=1-8&keywords=sourcingmap+12v+power+supply

or a normal computer psu?

something like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-600-Power-Supply-Unit/dp/B01127D0MY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1467630051&sr=1-1&keywords=600w+psu

 

Im probably not going to end up getting 600w... but something around there...

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

Gershy13

[WashMachine]

well you need to chop some Molex 

Usually: Yellow = 12v 

             Red= 5v 

           black = Ground

 

What you need probably is a capacitor if your PSU does not have enough power to keep up when you woofer (If a woofer gets peek power) 

Also check your amplifier if it does have battery protector (Mine used to have when the car is not started up it will cut off the woofer after given volume level ) 

 

And you will probably need a lot more powerful PSU (The problem might be the wires as well in a car you use waaay larger wire for power with waaay more capacity for the power to go through) 

 

If you know how to bridge the power find two 12v. and 2 grounds and try if there is more power going to your amplifier.

If you don't know what are you about to attemp doing it is better not to do it 

By reading your PSU sticker you can see how much power acutually single molex can supply at 12v. rail. 

[Gershy13]

55 minutes ago, WashMachine said:

well you need to chop some Molex 

Usually: Yellow = 12v 

             Red= 5v 

           black = Ground

 

What you need probably is a capacitor if your PSU does not have enough power to keep up when you woofer (If a woofer gets peek power) 

Also check your amplifier if it does have battery protector (Mine used to have when the car is not started up it will cut off the woofer after given volume level ) 

 

And you will probably need a lot more powerful PSU (The problem might be the wires as well in a car you use waaay larger wire for power with waaay more capacity for the power to go through) 

 

If you know how to bridge the power find two 12v. and 2 grounds and try if there is more power going to your amplifier.

If you don't know what are you about to attemp doing it is better not to do it 

By reading your PSU sticker you can see how much power acutually single molex can supply at 12v. rail. 

its a really old psu and its working... but my question was which of the above amazon links would be better... a computer psu or a 220v-12v transformer...

[rhyseyness]

You sub (if it's from a car) is likely going to require way more than a PC PSU can put out.

 

Bear in mind that P=IV.

Since V in this case is 12V, and power is probably around the 1000W mark, that gives a current level (I) of 83 amps.

83A.

I'll let that sink in.

83A typically requires wire of AWG 6 or lower depending on the number of cores.

 

The PCB in a computer power supply will not handle this kind of current, and neither will the wire connected to it.

I'd recommend you get a dedicated PSU designed for handling that kind of load.

 

If you look at this review of the Corsair AX1200i (high power, decently regarded PC PSU):

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/10/15/corsair_ax1200i_power_supply_review/5#.V3pTSdUguUk

You'll see when under a 1204W load, the PSU is delivering less than 20A on the 12V rail, and that's under FULL LOAD.

Hopefully this makes my point.

 

You'll probably save some money buying a dedicated supply too.

Hope this helps

[Gershy13]

46 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

You sub (if it's from a car) is likely going to require way more than a PC PSU can put out.

 

Bear in mind that P=IV.

Since V in this case is 12V, and power is probably around the 1000W mark, that gives a current level (I) of 83 amps.

83A.

I'll let that sink in.

83A typically requires wire of AWG 6 or lower depending on the number of cores.

 

The PCB in a computer power supply will not handle this kind of current, and neither will the wire connected to it.

I'd recommend you get a dedicated PSU designed for handling that kind of load.

 

If you look at this review of the Corsair AX1200i (high power, decently regarded PC PSU):

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/10/15/corsair_ax1200i_power_supply_review/5#.V3pTSdUguUk

You'll see when under a 1204W load, the PSU is delivering less than 20A on the 12V rail, and that's under FULL LOAD.

Hopefully this makes my point.

 

You'll probably save some money buying a dedicated supply too.

Hope this helps

ahh i see what you mean... i dont plan on running it at extreme volumes.. how is the transformer i linked? Is that better? My current PSU is 250w and delievers 192w at 12v or something... here is a picture

So im assuming a 600w computer psu will be better.

if you see here: 

http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=100-B1-0600-KR

 

it says that 12v rail can deliver 49a or 590w...

So which one is better?

The sourcingmap transformer or the evga psu?  

[rhyseyness]

1 hour ago, Gershy13 said:

ahh i see what you mean... i dont plan on running it at extreme volumes.. how is the transformer i linked? Is that better? My current PSU is 250w and delievers 192w at 12v or something... here is a picture

So im assuming a 600w computer psu will be better.

if you see here: 

http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=100-B1-0600-KR

 

it says that 12v rail can deliver 49a or 590w...

So which one is better?

The sourcingmap transformer or the evga psu?  

-snip-

The sourcing amp you linked is more suitable.

A PC PSU is just not a good solution for driving an amplifier.

A PC PSU is designed to generate a number of lower power rails, not one massively high power one.

You ideally want a dedicated 12V car amplifier, because it's designed for exactly what you're trying to do.

[Lutkeveld]

12V is a very low voltage for high power applications. Any real power will demand a huge current flow.

That's why all those car audio guys struggle with their huge ass cables.

A 24V or 48V system will cut your needed current in 4 or 16 respectively. 

It also eliminates the need for expensive/complex/inefficient DC-DC boost circuitry in mid to high power amplifiers.

 

Anyway, in home your often much better off using home audio stuff unless you want the challenge.

Just leave your car amp in your car and spend some extra dollars on a good plate amp for your sub.

[Gershy13]

3 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

The sourcing amp you linked is more suitable.

A PC PSU is just not a good solution for driving an amplifier.

A PC PSU is designed to generate a number of lower power rails, not one massively high power one.

You ideally want a dedicated 12V car amplifier, because it's designed for exactly what you're trying to do.

Ok, ill get the sourcingmap one then... My Sub is connected to a 12v Vibe Slick A0 Amp... its a 12v car amp... I should be fine right?

How would i safely hook up the transformer to the wall? It takes 3 wires in... Would i just get a UK Plug to 3 wires cable? Or do i have to buy some other unit?

 

 

[Gershy13]

2 hours ago, Lutkeveld said:

12V is a very low voltage for high power applications. Any real power will demand a huge current flow.

That's why all those car audio guys struggle with their huge ass cables.

A 24V or 48V system will cut your needed current in 4 or 16 respectively. 

It also eliminates the need for expensive/complex/inefficient DC-DC boost circuitry in mid to high power amplifiers.

 

Anyway, in home your often much better off using home audio stuff unless you want the challenge.

Just leave your car amp in your car and spend some extra dollars on a good plate amp for your sub.

I cant find any 24 or 48v amps... 

 

1. I dont have a car (im 13 , but my brothers have cars. My brother is also an electronic engineer )

2. Plate Amps are REALLY EXPENSIVE!

 

[Lutkeveld]

No, I meant in general. You're stuck with 12V because that's the car standard.

But from an audio perspective it would be much better to have a higher voltage input.

 

A plate amp isn't that expensive compared to a car amp + PSU. Plus it's a much neater solution.

 

[Gershy13]

9 minutes ago, Lutkeveld said:

No, I meant in general. You're stuck with 12V because that's the car standard.

But from an audio perspective it would be much better to have a higher voltage input.

 

A plate amp isn't that expensive compared to a car amp + PSU. Plus it's a much neater solution.

 

ahh i get it now... The reason why i want to use the car amp + psu method is i got the sub and amp for free...

[klh2000]

6 hours ago, Gershy13 said:

Ok, ill get the sourcingmap one then... My Sub is connected to a 12v Vibe Slick A0 Amp... its a 12v car amp... I should be fine right?

How would i safely hook up the transformer to the wall? It takes 3 wires in... Would i just get a UK Plug to 3 wires cable? Or do i have to buy some other unit?

 

 

This would be ideal for home applications: http://www.parts-express.com/bash-300s-digital-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-300w-rms--300-750

[asand1]

Your amplifier Running bridged (which you should be doing running only one sub) puts out 200W RMS, and is rated at 400W Peak. 400W/12V=33.3A.

 

You will need a PSU with 33A on the 12V line. The PSUs overall wattage doesnt mean squat.

 

[rhyseyness]

12 hours ago, Gershy13 said:

Ok, ill get the sourcingmap one then... My Sub is connected to a 12v Vibe Slick A0 Amp... its a 12v car amp... I should be fine right?

How would i safely hook up the transformer to the wall? It takes 3 wires in... Would i just get a UK Plug to 3 wires cable? Or do i have to buy some other unit?

 

 

Yes, it's a 220V input, so wiring up a plug will be fine.

Just make sure you do it the right way round (brown to +ve, blue to 0V/-ve/neutral, and green/yellow to earth)

Let us know if you need help with this, and don't do ANYTHING unless you're certain.

220V is definitely enough to seriously injure you, lol.

 

EDIT: Ah, they're marked as L and N on the sourcingmap PSU.

L for live, N for Neutral.

 

Also, it's helpful that you can split the output over 3 wires.

Means you can use 3 thinner wires rather than 1 massive one to "carry the current."

I'd recommend 3 "as-short-as-possible" lengths of 10 gauge or lower (6 total, 3 for power (V+), 3 for ground (COM)).

 

Your earth from your plug should go to the GND on the PSU (between COM and N).

 

FINAL EDIT: MAKE SURE NONE OF THE IN/OUTPUTS ARE SHORTING BEFORE YOU SWITCH ANYTHING ON!

IF YOU HAVE SHORTED ANYTHING, YOU'RE GOING TO EITHER TRIP THE BREAKER IN YOUR HOUSE OR FRY YOUR PSU.

[Gershy13]

4 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

Yes, it's a 220V input, so wiring up a plug will be fine.

Just make sure you do it the right way round (brown to +ve, blue to 0V/-ve/neutral, and green/yellow to earth)

Let us know if you need help with this, and don't do ANYTHING unless you're certain.

220V is definitely enough to seriously injure you, lol.

 

EDIT: Ah, they're marked as L and N on the sourcingmap PSU.

L for live, N for Neutral.

 

Also, it's helpful that you can split the output over 3 wires.

Means you can use 3 thinner wires rather than 1 massive one to "carry the current."

I'd recommend 3 "as-short-as-possible" lengths of 10 gauge or lower (6 total, 3 for power (V+), 3 for ground (COM)).

 

Your earth from your plug should go to the GND on the PSU (between COM and N).

 

FINAL EDIT: MAKE SURE NONE OF THE IN/OUTPUTS ARE SHORTING BEFORE YOU SWITCH ANYTHING ON!

IF YOU HAVE SHORTED ANYTHING, YOU'RE GOING TO EITHER TRIP THE BREAKER IN YOUR HOUSE OR FRY YOUR PSU.

Ok thanks, but how would I get 3 wires joined to one at the sub end? Will I have to twist and combine them? 

Also would it be better to use spare connectors or raw wires at the PSU end? 

I also thought about getting a kettle lead (not sure what the real name for these are...) extension and chipping off the female side... then wiring that to the PSU so I have a connector which I can plug in and out..  which is the best idea?

 

My PSU has a regulator, so what voltage should I set it to? The amp says 400w @13.8v? Should I set it to that? Thanks for all the help... I should be fine...

[Gershy13]

I have a wiring kit with connectors and stuff... its 8 gauge and has its own external fuse... the PSU is going to be right next to the amp/sub so I only need a really short run... (less than a metre)

Can I just use one terminal? Instead of 3? Or is it better to do 3?

[Gershy13]

12 hours ago, klh2000 said:

This would be ideal for home applications: http://www.parts-express.com/bash-300s-digital-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-300w-rms--300-750

its also quite expensive and not available directly in the UK

11 hours ago, asand1 said:

Your amplifier Running bridged (which you should be doing running only one sub) puts out 200W RMS, and is rated at 400W Peak. 400W/12V=33.3A.

 

You will need a PSU with 33A on the 12V line. The PSUs overall wattage doesnt mean squat.

 

either this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcingmap-AC110V-Switch-Supply-Driver/dp/B019RNKOK6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1467722206&sr=8-4&keywords=sourcingmap+400w+12v

(400w 33a)

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcingmap-AC110V-Switch-Supply-Driver/dp/B019RNKU14/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1467722209&sr=8-10&keywords=sourcingmap+480w+12v

480w 40a

[Gershy13]

6 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

Yes, it's a 220V input, so wiring up a plug will be fine.

Just make sure you do it the right way round (brown to +ve, blue to 0V/-ve/neutral, and green/yellow to earth)

Let us know if you need help with this, and don't do ANYTHING unless you're certain.

220V is definitely enough to seriously injure you, lol.

 

EDIT: Ah, they're marked as L and N on the sourcingmap PSU.

L for live, N for Neutral.

 

Also, it's helpful that you can split the output over 3 wires.

Means you can use 3 thinner wires rather than 1 massive one to "carry the current."

I'd recommend 3 "as-short-as-possible" lengths of 10 gauge or lower (6 total, 3 for power (V+), 3 for ground (COM)).

 

Your earth from your plug should go to the GND on the PSU (between COM and N).

 

FINAL EDIT: MAKE SURE NONE OF THE IN/OUTPUTS ARE SHORTING BEFORE YOU SWITCH ANYTHING ON!

IF YOU HAVE SHORTED ANYTHING, YOU'RE GOING TO EITHER TRIP THE BREAKER IN YOUR HOUSE OR FRY YOUR PSU.

Should i get a 400w (Peak power of amp) 33a (amp fuses are 15x2 = 30a) or a 480w 40a one?

[Gershy13]

Also, Does anyone know of how to clean a sub/speaker with a carpeted enclosure?

It looks like this, but just dirty... lots of stuff like dust and grass like things.. Also some dead flies lol

(image i found on the internet)

 

[rhyseyness]

On 7/5/2016 at 11:25 AM, Gershy13 said:

Ok thanks, but how would I get 3 wires joined to one at the sub end? Will I have to twist and combine them? 

Also would it be better to use spare connectors or raw wires at the PSU end? 

I also thought about getting a kettle lead (not sure what the real name for these are...) extension and chipping off the female side... then wiring that to the PSU so I have a connector which I can plug in and out..  which is the best idea?

 

My PSU has a regulator, so what voltage should I set it to? The amp says 400w @13.8v? Should I set it to that? Thanks for all the help... I should be fine...

Sorry for the slow reply, it's been a busy couple a days.

 

Yes, I would twist the wires together to get them all to go into the one connector at the sub.

 

The PSU looks like it's designed for bare wire, so I'd recommend that's what you use.

There's also a risk that any connector you put on there won't be able to handle the high current.

 

The kettle lead idea sounds good if I understand correctly.

As long as you're not leaving any bare wires exposed don't see a problem

 

Anywhere between 12 and 14V is about right, as this is about the same as a car battery will put out

 

As for the fuse, I think the 480W 40A one, to give you a bit of headroom.

Don't want the fuse blowing every time you crank the volume, lol.

[Gershy13]

3 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

Sorry for the slow reply, it's been a busy couple a days.

 

Yes, I would twist the wires together to get them all to go into the one connector at the sub.

 

The PSU looks like it's designed for bare wire, so I'd recommend that's what you use.

There's also a risk that any connector you put on there won't be able to handle the high current.

 

The kettle lead idea sounds good if I understand correctly.

As long as you're not leaving any bare wires exposed don't see a problem

 

Anywhere between 12 and 14V is about right, as this is about the same as a car battery will put out

 

As for the fuse, I think the 480W 40A one, to give you a bit of headroom.

Don't want the fuse blowing every time you crank the volume, lol.

I have a wiring kit with connectors and stuff... its 8 gauge and has its own external fuse... the PSU is going to be right next to the amp/sub so I only need a really short run... (less than a metre)

Can I just use one terminal? Instead of 3? Or is it better to do 3?

 

Also, I realised that the amp is 400w peak and 200w RMS, would I be better off with the 400w? As its about £12 cheaper than the 480w... if I was getting the 480w then I might as well put in another £3 and get the 600w for more headroom in the future...

 

As for the kettle lead solution , which do you think is better? 

Making my own plug to wire connection using a UK plug from Wilko or HomeBase and a bit of 3 core wire

Getting a normal kettle lead and chopping off the connector 

Getting a kettle lead extension and using that as a port?

[rhyseyness]

2 hours ago, Gershy13 said:

I have a wiring kit with connectors and stuff... its 8 gauge and has its own external fuse... the PSU is going to be right next to the amp/sub so I only need a really short run... (less than a metre)

Can I just use one terminal? Instead of 3? Or is it better to do 3?

 

Also, I realised that the amp is 400w peak and 200w RMS, would I be better off with the 400w? As its about £12 cheaper than the 480w... if I was getting the 480w then I might as well put in another £3 and get the 600w for more headroom in the future...

 

As for the kettle lead solution , which do you think is better? 

Making my own plug to wire connection using a UK plug from Wilko or HomeBase and a bit of 3 core wire

Getting a normal kettle lead and chopping off the connector 

Getting a kettle lead extension and using that as a port?

Just using 1 run of 8 gauge to one terminal should be fine

Using all 3 terminals would just mean the current is spread across all 3 terminals rather than just through 1.

This is "better," but you're unlikely to have a problem just using 1 terminal for this application.

 

Sounds like the 400W fuse is a better solution if 400W is the peak power of your amp.

 

Now, as for the kettle lead, any of those solutions will be fine.

If it were me, I'd buy a plug from wilko/homebase/b&q and use 3 core.

However, chopping the end off a kettle lead will work just fine too.

I think whichever is cheaper to be honest!

 

You should probably fuse the plug too... 400W at 240V is about 2A, so I'd fit a 5A fuse to the plug if you can.

Not a disaster if you can't.

[Gershy13]

7 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

Just using 1 run of 8 gauge to one terminal should be fine

Using all 3 terminals would just mean the current is spread across all 3 terminals rather than just through 1.

This is "better," but you're unlikely to have a problem just using 1 terminal for this application.

 

Sounds like the 400W fuse is a better solution if 400W is the peak power of your amp.

 

Now, as for the kettle lead, any of those solutions will be fine.

If it were me, I'd buy a plug from wilko/homebase/b&q and use 3 core.

However, chopping the end off a kettle lead will work just fine too.

I think whichever is cheaper to be honest!

 

You should probably fuse the plug too... 400W at 240V is about 2A, so I'd fit a 5A fuse to the plug if you can.

Not a disaster if you can't.

Thanks, ill get the 400w psu, and find out which method is cheapest.

If i were to buy the plug most likely it would come with a 13a fuse.

the 8 gauge wire has a fuse built in, should i use that or not (saving it for use in a car later or something)? 

[Gershy13]

5 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

Just using 1 run of 8 gauge to one terminal should be fine

Using all 3 terminals would just mean the current is spread across all 3 terminals rather than just through 1.

This is "better," but you're unlikely to have a problem just using 1 terminal for this application.

 

Sounds like the 400W fuse is a better solution if 400W is the peak power of your amp.

 

Now, as for the kettle lead, any of those solutions will be fine.

If it were me, I'd buy a plug from wilko/homebase/b&q and use 3 core.

However, chopping the end off a kettle lead will work just fine too.

I think whichever is cheaper to be honest!

 

You should probably fuse the plug too... 400W at 240V is about 2A, so I'd fit a 5A fuse to the plug if you can.

Not a disaster if you can't.

Looks like making my own cable is the most expensive, so im ruling that out...

The 2 kettle lead methods are basically the same in price, but i get something that i can plug in and out using the extension method, so i think im gonna go with that.

The only thing im concerned about is if these kettle leads have ground connections...

 

 

[rhyseyness]

17 hours ago, Gershy13 said:

Thanks, ill get the 400w psu, and find out which method is cheapest.

If i were to buy the plug most likely it would come with a 13a fuse.

the 8 gauge wire has a fuse built in, should i use that or not (saving it for use in a car later or something)? 

13A fuse on the plug would only blow when you're pulling over 3000W from the wall, so you'd probably want to change that for something smaller in case your PSU goes wrong.

As for the fuse "built in" to the 8 gauge... meh, if you're putting in your own 400W fuse on the output, probably isn't necessary.

 

Basically you want one fuse between the mains and the PSU, then one between your PSU output and the amp.

This means if there's a problem anywhere along the line, the fuse SHOULD protect your equipment.

12 hours ago, Gershy13 said:

Looks like making my own cable is the most expensive, so im ruling that out...

The 2 kettle lead methods are basically the same in price, but i get something that i can plug in and out using the extension method, so i think im gonna go with that.

The only thing im concerned about is if these kettle leads have ground connections...

Kettle leads should have a ground connection.

The "top" pin on the kettle end should be a ground.