2.1 Speakers Setup Help

[Wololo]

Hey guys Im pretty new with the audio stuff and would like some advice on speaker setups. My current setup look like the one in the picture without the subwoofer. I was wondering what type of cord do i need to connect the Logitech Z523 Sub to the lepy amp. Do I need 2 way RCA cable or RCA to speakerwire converter cable or  L/LFE single connector to RCA cable? The logitech z523 sub's bass level is orginally controlled by the satilite speakers from the set, but I only purchased the sub w/o the 2 side speakers. So to sync the z523 sub with the loft 40s, I need to go for L/LFE single connect to RCA option since it allow for the speaker wires to twisted together and  controlled by the amp as a single unit? Or the type of connector doesn't really matter?  Help much appreciated, thanks.

[spwath]

Yeah, not really possible to do it.

[rhyseyness]

There's no subwoofer/lfe/line output on your amp so you'll have to go straight from PC to sub.

This means, depending on if the sub is active or not, it might not work at all.

Now, considering your sub connects to a power strip, I'm assuming it's active.

This means there is an amp built into the sub, so you might get away with it.

I'd guess there's a low pass filter for the aux input to the sub too.

SO, if I understand you correctly, you want a 3.5mm splitter, then a 3.5mm to RCA cable.

This will mean you can still have your 3.5mm to your amp and JBLs, then another 3.5mm>RCA coming from the same output going to your sub.

 

                              ------------------>3.5mm to sub

3.5mm fromPC--->3.5mm splitter

                              ------------------>3.5mm to RCA to amp

 

What this does mean is that you'll have to adjust the PC output level to a volume where the sub is where you want it to be, then adjust your amp to get your monitors at the level you want them... this assumes you have volume control on that amp...

If your amp doesn't have volume control, there won't be any way to match up the sub and monitor volumes to an acceptable level.

Hope this helps/makes sense

Edited May 9, 2016 by rhyseyness
Diagram formatting

[johnt]

5 hours ago, Wololo said:

-snip-

 

The biggest problem here is power. The z523 is a powered subwoofer, but the right satellite speaker gives the subwoofer the authority to summon the power (thus making noise). Without the satellite speaker turning on the amp inside the subwoofer, the subwoofer is effectively useless.

 

First, you need to find a way to make the subwoofer turn on without the right speaker. And then speaker cable to RCA cables will do the work. Then you have two options:

1. http://amzn.com/B009B8EJYU
2. 3.5mm splitter with 3.5mm to RCA

 

 

2 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

I'd guess there's a low pass filter for the aux input to the sub too.

The plate amp likely has an internal crossover set much higher than desirable. I've heard these units crossover around 125 to 160 Hz. But better than nothing.

 

2 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

Now, considering your sub connects to a power strip, I'm assuming it's active.

This means there is an amp built into the sub, so you might get away with it.

Unfortunately, false. There is no dedicated power switch.

[spwath]

1 hour ago, JohnT said:

The biggest problem here is power. The z523 is a powered subwoofer, but the right satellite speaker gives the subwoofer the authority to summon the power (thus making noise). Without the satellite speaker turning on the amp inside the subwoofer, the subwoofer is effectively useless.

 

First, you need to find a way to make the subwoofer turn on without the right speaker. And then speaker cable to RCA cables will do the work. Then you have two options:

1. http://amzn.com/B009B8EJYU
2. 3.5mm splitter with 3.5mm to RCA

 

 

The plate amp likely has an internal crossover set much higher than desirable. I've heard these units crossover around 125 to 160 Hz. But better than nothing.

 

Unfortunately, false. There is no dedicated power switch.

Moral of the story, boxed systems can not be upgraded in any way, and should not be. Just replaced altogether. Or not bought in the first place....

[Wololo]

3 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

There's no subwoofer/lfe/line output on your amp so you'll have to go straight from PC to sub.

This means, depending on if the sub is active or not, it might not work at all.

Now, considering your sub connects to a power strip, I'm assuming it's active.

This means there is an amp built into the sub, so you might get away with it.

I'd guess there's a low pass filter for the aux input to the sub too.

SO, if I understand you correctly, you want a 3.5mm splitter, then a 3.5mm to RCA cable.

This will mean you can still have your 3.5mm to your amp and JBLs, then another 3.5mm>RCA coming from the same output going to your sub.

 

                              ------------------>3.5mm to sub

3.5mm fromPC--->3.5mm splitter

                              ------------------>3.5mm to RCA to amp

 

What this does mean is that you'll have to adjust the PC output level to a volume where the sub is where you want it to be, then adjust your amp to get your monitors at the level you want them... this assumes you have volume control on that amp...

If your amp doesn't have volume control, there won't be any way to match up the sub and monitor volumes to an acceptable level.

Hope this helps/makes sense

My mobo got a spdif output hole, can I go for a SPDIF to RCA cable for sub filter plus the connect you mentioned? Yeah brought the sub dirty cheap from ebay at this point might just use it to hold my dirty plates... Rip

[Wololo]

5 minutes ago, spwath said:

Moral of the story, boxed systems can not be upgraded in any way, and should not be. Just replaced altogether. Or not bought in the first place....

welp, noob mistake. Maybe i can get it to work somehow but it seems much hassle to move some air. maybe just maybe

[rhyseyness]

15 hours ago, Wololo said:

My mobo got a spdif output hole, can I go for a SPDIF to RCA cable for sub filter plus the connect you mentioned? Yeah brought the sub dirty cheap from ebay at this point might just use it to hold my dirty plates... Rip

Sorry dude, as @JohnT said, without an "enable" signal, your sub's internal amp won't ever turn on.

I didn't realise that it needed this from the rest of the system when I made my suggestion.

RIP indeed :'(

 

EDIT: It is possible that you could manually pull up/down this signal to enable the amp, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth tbh.

[Wololo]

16 hours ago, rhyseyness said:

Sorry dude, as @JohnT said, without an "enable" signal, your sub's internal amp won't ever turn on.

I didn't realise that it needed this from the rest of the system when I made my suggestion.

RIP indeed :'(

 

EDIT: It is possible that you could manually pull up/down this signal to enable the amp, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth tbh.

Yeah I brought 2 way dual RCA cable and got 2 options to maybe get it to work. Can you see if it might work?

[Wololo]

@JohnT

JohnT

you think the option2 will turn the sub on?

 

[johnt]

3 hours ago, Wololo said:

@JohnT

JohnT

you think the option2 will turn the sub on?

 

In my opinion and experience, it's likely that the Right speaker will turn on the sub's amplifier and not the Left one. Unfortunately, option 2 will not work.

 

You literally need to open your subwoofer, find the power lines, and interrupt it with a switch. But again, I wish it were this easy. In concept it is, but in practice, Logitech likely messed with this also so that you can't do it.

[Wololo]

31 minutes ago, JohnT said:

In my opinion and experience, it's likely that the Right speaker will turn on the sub's amplifier and not the Left one. Unfortunately, option 2 will not work.

 

You literally need to open your subwoofer, find the power lines, and interrupt it with a switch. But again, I wish it were this easy. In concept it is, but in practice, Logitech likely messed with this also so that you can't do it.

so at this poing should i get a fullset of z523 and run 2 sub in series with splitter? or get jamo j 12 sub... would 2 low quality sub provide any sound stage at all?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Wololo said:

so at this poing should i get a fullset of z523 and run 2 sub in series with splitter? or get jamo j 12 sub... would 2 low quality sub provide any sound stage at all?

 

Subs don't provide soundstage and that is not the purpose of multisub. I advise against wasting money on multiple crummy subs.

[Wololo]

2 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

Subs don't provide soundstage and that is not the purpose of multisub. I advise against wasting money on multiple crummy subs.

so for the best sound stage performance per dollar， should i add 2 more jbl loft 40 speakers and place 4 in 4 corner of the room. Im using a 2.1 receiver with razer 7.1 virtual surround program but my mobo on board audio can handle 7.1 surround i think.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Wololo said:

so for the best sound stage performance per dollar， should i add 2 more jbl loft 40 speakers and place 4 in 4 corner of the room. Im using a 2.1 receiver with razer 7.1 virtual surround program but my mobo on board audio can handle 7.1 surround i think.

 

If you want surround, get enough speakers for surround. That doesn't have anything to do with soundstage, either.

[Wololo]

10 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

If you want surround, get enough speakers for surround. That doesn't have anything to do with soundstage, either.

Im pretty new with audio stuff, could you tell me what exactly are soundstage vs surround? Could I put connect 3 pairs of speakers into with a 3 individual 2.1 receivers then connect the receivers onto the PC as front, side, rear line in? Would it achieve better dynamic sound quality?

[johnt]

25 minutes ago, Wololo said:

so at this poing should i get a fullset of z523 and run 2 sub in series with splitter? or get jamo j 12 sub... would 2 low quality sub provide any sound stage at all?

I don't think you will be able to run this particular subwoofer in *parallel* (commonly referred to as dual subs). If you run subwoofers in series... God help you.

 

3 minutes ago, Wololo said:

Im pretty new with audio stuff, could you tell me what exactly are soundstage vs surround? Could I put connect 3 pairs of speakers into with a 3 individual 2.1 receivers then connect the receivers onto the PC as front, side, rear line in? Would it achieve better dynamic sound quality?

Do yourself a favor and stay away from surround sound on PC. The PC is not a surround sound friendly machine.

 

If I were you, I'd toss the Logitech crud and get yourself something with a little more bang. And it sounds like you already do... If you already have JBL bookshelf speakers, just use those.

 

Incorporating a subwoofer is a good idea, but this particular Logitech ain't gonna be the one!

[Omon_Ra]

9 minutes ago, Wololo said:

so for the best sound stage performance per dollar， should i add 2 more jbl loft 40 speakers and place 4 in 4 corner of the room. Im using a 2.1 receiver with razer 7.1 virtual surround program but my mobo on board audio can handle 7.1 surround i think.

Audio quality isn't really sound stage-to-dollars, as the sound stage is how you place your speakers. You want to make sure you have quality speakers, then place them correctly. Simplistic explanation is to have them at ear level, the same distance to your ears and somewhat spread out. Depending on your room, you can be limited as far as how wide apart you can spread them. Your receiver needs to be able to decode 7.1 (or 5.1) audio as well. You can't just have 7 satellite speakers hooked up to a bunch of amps. If you want 7.1 surround, just get a 7.1 surround system with an optical audio input. It seems like you're needlessly complicating things for yourself. Your front, side, rear outputs are for 5.1 surround systems that use 3.5mm front, side, rear jacks for the separate audio channels. In theory, I suppose you could hook up separate amps for each channel, but again, that seems more complicated than it needs to be.

[johnt]

6 minutes ago, Omon_Ra said:

If you want 7.1 surround, just get a 7.1 surround system with an optical audio input.

Careful with your recommendation... optical supports up to 6 channels. HDMI is the only interface that supports more than 6 channels (7.1, Atmos, DTS:X). 

 

You could use multiple TRS to RCA cables if your receiver supports multi channel inputs, but again, just like you said to the OP... he would be complicating his life.

[Wololo]

10 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Careful with your recommendation... optical supports up to 6 channels. HDMI is the only interface that supports more than 6 channels (7.1, Atmos, DTS:X). 

 

You could use multiple TRS to RCA cables if your receiver supports multi channel inputs, but again, just like you said to the OP... he would be complicating his life.

umm i checked my mobo audio specs, it says :

1. VIA VT2021 codec
2. High Definition Audio
3. 2/4/5.1/7.1-channel
4. Support for S/PDIF Out

7.1 surround sound requires 6 bookshelf speakers, 1 center speaker (I prob wont get this), 1and subwoofe, correct? Since the bookshelf speakers use speaker wire/ or banana plug, which cant be plug directly into the 3.5mm jack on the pc, I would need at least 3 receivers right? I already have 1 receiver, so it will be cheaper to get 2 more 2.1 receiver rather then getting a single 7.1 receiver right? I found this cheap 7.1 receiver on ebay but seems like a hacked account with scam product.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harman-Kardon-AVR-2700-7-1-channel-home-theater-receiver-with-Apple-AirPlay-/272239332612?hash=item3f62ba8d04:g:1h8AAOSw~oFXMl3c

What would you recommand for surround sound considering the stuff Im working with?

[johnt]

11 minutes ago, Wololo said:

7.1 surround sound requires 6 bookshelf speakers, 1 center speaker (I prob wont get this), 1and subwoofe, correct?

Yes, this is correct. However, the speakers don't necessarily have to be "bookshelf."

 

12 minutes ago, Wololo said:

Since the bookshelf speakers use speaker wire/ or banana plug, which cant be plug directly into the 3.5mm jack on the pc, I would need at least 3 receivers right?

It depends on how complicated you want to make your life. They make receivers that have multi channel inputs. You use a regular 3.5mm to RCA adapter to connect each set of channels. Look at this receiver below as a reference.

 

 

Connect using these cables.

 

Or you can just use a single HDMI cable from your video card.

 

15 minutes ago, Wololo said:

What would you recommand for surround sound considering the stuff Im working with?

I do *not* recommend using surround sound on PC. It's just not user friendly enough or consistent enough. Less and less games are coming out in 5 channels. Four channels is very common. Two fronts, and two rears. As far as a subwoofer? Forget about it. There are very few games on the market, in existence, that support a "low frequency effects" channel (commonly referred to as the .1). Then you add two more surround channels (going from 5.1 to 7.1) and the number of games in existence that supports it drops down to around 2 dozen, at best. And they are all older titles with exception of Rocket League.

 

Two high quality, passive and ported speakers will get the job done by comparison. Since you already have two bookshelf speakers with these qualities, connect them using your receiver and that's it. That is my recommendation.

[Omon_Ra]

10 minutes ago, JohnT said:

Careful with your recommendation... optical supports up to 6 channels. HDMI is the only interface that supports more than 6 channels (7.1, Atmos, DTS:X). 

 

You could use multiple TRS to RCA cables if your receiver supports multi channel inputs, but again, just like you said to the OP... he would be complicating his life.

Ahh, I didn't realize that. Good to know. IMO 7.1 surround is overkill, so I never paid much attention to it. I had assumed optical could handle 7.1, as it is, well, optical...I know it's been around a while, and kind of before HDMI/7.1 really became more commonplace, but still kind of surprising. To really get the best out of a 7.1 setup you basically need a specific theatre room as a typical living space doesn't really offer the best options for speaker positioning.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Wololo said:

-snip-

 

I don't think you understand how multi-channel speaker systems work. Just because there are 7 speakers, doesn't mean they all get the same signal. Depending on the source material, it may have multi-channel encoding; where the audio has been engineered to be split to separate channels (front, rear, left, right, etc) to enhance the sound stage and sound positioning. There's 2 channel, or stereo, which is right and left. 4 channel, front left, front right, rear right, rear left. 5.1, front left, center, front right, rear left, rear right and a sub (as you correctly said, the '.1'). 7.1, front left, center, front right, side right, side left, rear left, rear right and a sub.

 

While having a separate receiver for each front, rear, side and sub/center channels would work, it's going to be mess. One of the issues, among others, is that each channel will have to be independently adjusted for volume so you can match them properly. And then your only means of volume control will be through your OS. A 7.1 receiver like you posted (don't buy that one, 'if it's too good to be true, it is') will take the 7.1 audio from your computer (via HDMI ) and split the signal to the proper channels.

 

As @JohnT said, just use your JBL's and your amp and call it a day. I personally like need a sub, so I understand your desire for more bottom end; but that can be accomplished with an active sub like this (http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Audio-PSW-6-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B00KGA6A8A/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1462945566&sr=1-1&keywords=active+subwoofer) *I'm not saying you should buy this one, just showing you what is available*

[spwath]

12 hours ago, JohnT said:

Yes, this is correct. However, the speakers don't necessarily have to be "bookshelf."

 

It depends on how complicated you want to make your life. They make receivers that have multi channel inputs. You use a regular 3.5mm to RCA adapter to connect each set of channels. Look at this receiver below as a reference.

 

 

Connect using these cables.

 

Or you can just use a single HDMI cable from your video card.

 

I do *not* recommend using surround sound on PC. It's just not user friendly enough or consistent enough. Less and less games are coming out in 5 channels. Four channels is very common. Two fronts, and two rears. As far as a subwoofer? Forget about it. There are very few games on the market, in existence, that support a "low frequency effects" channel (commonly referred to as the .1). Then you add two more surround channels (going from 5.1 to 7.1) and the number of games in existence that supports it drops down to around 2 dozen, at best. And they are all older titles with exception of Rocket League.

 

Two high quality, passive and ported speakers will get the job done by comparison. Since you already have two bookshelf speakers with these qualities, connect them using your receiver and that's it. That is my recommendation.

True, but a good enough number support quadrophonic, so i would recommend 4.1 system, and if you have a receiver, and connect via hdmi, then the receiver should bee able to just crossover the low freqs to sub.