Does GPU VRAM Store Data?

[Made In Canada]

Earlier today, a question was brought up about if its possible for a GPU to get a virus, at first i said no, but with a little more research, a new question has come up. One of the points that came up was that viruses only attack data and whatever stores data such as storage devices and RAM. This could be a whole thread just disusing this one topic but for now i am wondering, does GPU VRAM store any data? (i do understand VRRAM and RAM are two different things but i am still going to ask to see if anyone actually knows).

 

PS. i am only saying this because i saw it brought up the other day, dont comment on this if you dont know for sure, there was a slight argument the other day because someone said they did not know what the topic was about. I say this because i dont want to see that here as it is a different question.

[gazabi]

3 minutes ago, Made In Canada said:

Earlier today, a question was brought up about if its possible for a GPU to get a virus, at first i said no, but with a little more research, a new question has come up. One of the points that came up was that viruses only attack data and whatever stores data such as storage devices and RAM. This could be a whole thread just disusing this one topic but for now i am wondering, does GPU VRAM store any data? (i do understand VRRAM and RAM are two different things but i am still going to ask to see if anyone actually knows).

 

PS. i am only saying this because i saw it brought up the other day, dont comment on this if you dont know for sure, there was a slight argument the other day because someone said they did not know what the topic was about. I only say this because i dont want to see that here as it is a different question.

Since vram is volatile (it doesn't store data when not powered) i dont believe it can get a virus.

[Glenwing]

2 minutes ago, Made In Canada said:

Earlier today, a question was brought up about if its possible for a GPU to get a virus, at first i said no, but with a little more research, a new question has come up. One of the points that came up was that viruses only attack data and whatever stores data such as storage devices and RAM. This could be a whole thread just disusing this one topic but for now i am wondering, does GPU VRAM store any data? (i do understand VRRAM and RAM are two different things but i am still going to ask to see if anyone actually knows).

 

PS. i am only saying this because i saw it brought up the other day, dont comment on this if you dont know for sure, there was a slight argument the other day because someone said they did not know what the topic was about. I only say this because i dont want to see that here as it is a different question.

VRAM stores data, but it's temporary storage like RAM which is wiped completely whenever the computer is powered down. The OS and any applications running on it don't have direct control over what gets written into GPU memory either, the GPU manages its own VRAM.

[Made In Canada]

3 minutes ago, gazabi said:

Since vram is volatile (it doesn't store data when not powered) i dont believe it can get a virus.

this was mentioned as well, but then one person also asked if the data that was stored before turning off, can stil be on it after turning back on.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Made In Canada
Answered in comment above this one.

[Marcus Torre DeProspero]

1 minute ago, Glenwing said:

VRAM stores data, but it's temporary storage like RAM which is wiped completely whenever the computer is powered down. The OS and any applications running on it don't have direct control over what gets written into GPU memory either, the GPU manages its own VRAM.

I agree with you almost entirely except I would change "when the computer is powered down" to "whenever the application that is using the vram is exited and completely ended as a task" otherwise you are pretty much right.

[gazabi]

1 minute ago, Made In Canada said:

this was mentioned as well, but then one person also asked if the data that was stored before turning off, can stil be on it after turning back on.

No it cannot, hence the volatile characteristic.

[Made In Canada]

3 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

VRAM stores data, but it's temporary storage like RAM which is wiped completely whenever the computer is powered down. The OS and any applications running on it don't have direct control over what gets written into GPU memory either, the GPU manages its own VRAM.

 

1 minute ago, Marcus Torre DeProspero said:

I agree with you almost entirely except I would change "when the computer is powered down" to "whenever the application that is using the vram is exited and completely ended as a task" otherwise you are pretty much right.

 

1 minute ago, gazabi said:

No it cannot, hence the volatile characteristic.

Well i think its safe to say that question is answered/ confirmed. Thank You for the quick replies.

[Glenwing]

I think the phrasing of the question is just a little weird. VRAM stores binary data like any other type of memory, so in theory it is possible for it to contain 1's and 0's representing a program that would be classified as a virus. But the computer cannot execute programs from VRAM because it doesn't have direct access to it. Any interactions the computer has with VRAM have to pass through the driver software provided by AMD, NVIDIA, or Intel, using only the operations provided by the supported APIs such as DirectX or OpenGL. Is it possible to hack or bypass drivers? Yes, hence things like GPU power viruses, etc. But again even if you could somehow store and execute a program from VRAM, it would just be erased on the next boot cycle. So a GPU cannot "get" a virus in the sense of becoming infected and you should never attach it to any computer ever again, or something like that. It would be a monumental effort to do something severely limited in effectiveness.

[agent_x007]

First problem :
U usually made viruses to collect data about user (accounts, passwords, etc.) or do damage to it (block or delete it).
VRAM does not contain that type of data (ever), so making virus that operates in VRAM is pointless from profit point of view (+ VRAM gets wiped with every shut down so... yeah).

Even if a hacker wanted to just try, there is second REALLY big problem :
GPU's can't execute x86 code (ie. they don't understand it). 
Basicly : A hypothetical hacker would have to write a code that works on CUDA or STREAM (if it wants GPU to execute it) but that in turn makes it... difficult to execute on CPU direcly.

As for executing virus on CPU using VRAM it was explained earlier. It's not possible to get direct access to VRAM from CPU (+ I don't think U can write to VRAM something that GPU/API does not support).

PS. GPU's without at least DirectX 10 support, cannot do this (U can't force/make a purely Pixel/Vertex Shader hardware to execute maliciuos code).
It would be like trying to program a office calculator, to run Crysis.

[Godlygamer23]

1 hour ago, Marcus Torre DeProspero said:

I agree with you almost entirely except I would change "when the computer is powered down" to "whenever the application that is using the vram is exited and completely ended as a task" otherwise you are pretty much right.

VRAM is not completely wiped until the system is off. With my 660 Ti idling(which does nothing in my build except fold), it's consuming 60MB of VRAM.

[agent_x007]

@up Displaying anything on monitor requires VRAM.
In other words : U can't have a "0MB" VRAM usage while looking at your desktop.
So that "60MB" may or may not be folding related, but Windows related.
I don't think there is a way to tell how much VRAM a program uses exacly (most diagnostic programs can show total VRAM usage and that's it).

[Godlygamer23]

7 minutes ago, agent_x007 said:

@up Displaying anything on monitor requires VRAM.
In other words : U can't have a "0MB" VRAM usage while looking at your desktop.
So that "60MB" may or may not be folding related, but Windows related.

It's not from Folding@home. At the time of that post, Folding@home wasn't running at all. No displays are connected to the card anyways. With Folding@home running, the 660 Ti has 118MB of VRAM consumed.

 

Side note: Not sure what your tag is about.

[Marcus Torre DeProspero]

5 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

VRAM is not completely wiped until the system is off. With my 660 Ti idling(which does nothing in my build except fold), it's consuming 60MB of VRAM.

Yes I understand that but that is because it is consuming information it is not that it is still with holding a curtain amount but that it is cycling information from the screen. I have done research on a gtx 770 and a 9800 gtx+ in an old system running linux. I checked the memory that both the cards were using. I was able to see the files and texture file that the cards were using at the time from two different screens and when I exited programs some of them would go away but the linux display files would not same goes for windows. Either way a card has its vram running non stop I have a gtx 980 ti, an hd 4850 and my old gtx 280 runnning and they use vram because they kinda have to, they still transfer memory between the memory chips. There is no display connected to them either. Even when folding they never even use 3% of their vram capacity.

[Godlygamer23]

1 hour ago, Marcus Torre DeProspero said:

Yes I understand that but that is because it is consuming information it is not that it is still with holding a curtain amount but that it is cycling information from the screen. I have done research on a gtx 770 and a 9800 gtx+ in an old system running linux. I checked the memory that both the cards were using. I was able to see the files and texture file that the cards were using at the time from two different screens and when I exited programs some of them would go away but the linux display files would not same goes for windows. Either way a card has its vram running non stop I have a gtx 980 ti, an hd 4850 and my old gtx 280 runnning and they use vram because they kinda have to, they still transfer memory between the memory chips. There is no display connected to them either. Even when folding they never even use 3% of their vram capacity.

That was pretty much the point of my comment. 

 

VRAM is not fully emptied until the system shuts off, therefore making Glenwing's comment fully correct. 

[Marcus Torre DeProspero]

9 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

That was pretty much the point of my comment. 

 

VRAM is not fully emptied until the system shuts off, therefore making Glenwing's comment fully correct. 

Ah my bad I misunderstood what you meant. I was interpreting it as "vram is stored until system shut down" my bad