Angling a subwoofer?

[AWF_Noone]

I have a down firing subwoofer on a hard wood floor.  Would angling it any way improve sound quality?

[vanished]

If it's down-firing, how are you panning to angle it?  Turn it on its side?  It wouldn't matter what you do though; subwoofers are not directional.

[AWF_Noone]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

If it's down-firing, how are you panning to angle it?  Turn it on its side?  It wouldn't matter what you do though; subwoofers are not directional.

So angling it towards a wall won't do any thing for acoustics? Like reflect the sound up towards me? 

[vanished]

Just now, AWF_Noone said:

So angling it towards a wall won't do any thing for acoustics? Like reflect the sound up towards me? 

moving it in the room can make quite a significant difference in the sound, but "pointing" it in a certain direction will do practically nothing.

[AWF_Noone]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

moving it in the room can make quite a significant difference in the sound, but "pointing" it in a certain direction will do practically nothing.

Oh okay, thanks

[branden_lucero]

angeling it wont do much. i used to have mine set directly on the left side of my bed close to a wall. but i wasnt feeling shit because the floor is all tile, so everything just echoed.

now,at my current place, i angled my couch to match the angle of my TV. and i put the subwoofer directly behind it flushed. and it made a HUGE difference (it also helped that the floor was carpeted). Fury Road almost sounded exactly like it did when i saw it theater. that sweet V8. 

[EndlessOyster]

10 hours ago, AWF_Noone said:

So angling it towards a wall won't do any thing for acoustics? Like reflect the sound up towards me? 

if you place it in the corner about 30cm(12inches)  away it will be drastically louder. it wont be acoustically better but it be louder.

[SSL]

The best way to position a sub is the crawling technique; put it where you sit to listen, set the volume knob to about 50%, and then crawl around until you get the best balance of sound that you want. Then, fine-tune the crossover point and levels to get an even frequency response.

[spwath]

1 hour ago, SSL said:

The best way to position a sub is the crawling technique; put it where you sit to listen, set the volume knob to about 50%, and then crawl around until you get the best balance of sound that you want. Then, fine-tune the crossover point and levels to get an even frequency response.

Yup, i did this, works great.

 

Just make sure no one is watching.

[Toxicknight79]

The subwoofer angling thing has different factors involved. You first  have to understand  how the whole SPL thing works,,,, and  whether or not the thing is a ported or sealed ,,,  ported  means you need to have your port  working the angle not the speaker it self  ,, since its the port that  acts as a tuning device to   deliver  a  louder frequency at a certain frequency.  I've always found that  a sealed box though,  angle the  speaker into the corner of a room (or car where ever your putting it so on) produces a,,, sorta like what  audio fans call a band pass where the  pressure is increased do to a forced volume of feet that's closed off , this also results in your  wall becoming part of the speaker at a certain amount of volume due to the pressure vibrating the wall just enough to reproduce the same sound ( this can also lead to  needing  house repairs if its a high wattage   and output sub lol) People try to tell you that bass, is omni directional, it is once your far enough away ,,, but   where it counts ,, it is not so universal.  so  my suggestion is ,,,, the sub is better behind you   towards a corner if sealed ,, or if the port is on one side and the sub the other (which for some reason  pc speaker manufactures do sometimes)  point the port into the corner,,,, 

[SSL]

1 hour ago, Toxicknight79 said:

The subwoofer angling thing has different factors involved. You first  have to understand  how the whole SPL thing works,,,, and  whether or not the thing is a ported or sealed ,,,  ported  means you need to have your port  working the angle not the speaker it self  ,, since its the port that  acts as a tuning device to   deliver  a  louder frequency at a certain frequency.  I've always found that  a sealed box though,  angle the  speaker into the corner of a room (or car where ever your putting it so on) produces a,,, sorta like what  audio fans call a band pass where the  pressure is increased do to a forced volume of feet that's closed off , this also results in your  wall becoming part of the speaker at a certain amount of volume due to the pressure vibrating the wall just enough to reproduce the same sound ( this can also lead to  needing  house repairs if its a high wattage   and output sub lol) People try to tell you that bass, is omni directional, it is once your far enough away ,,, but   where it counts ,, it is not so universal.  so  my suggestion is ,,,, the sub is better behind you   towards a corner if sealed ,, or if the port is on one side and the sub the other (which for some reason  pc speaker manufactures do sometimes)  point the port into the corner,,,, 

 

Any justification for the last two recommendations? Kind of hard to discern any reasoning in your wall of text.

[iamdarkyoshi]

20 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

Any justification for the last two recommendations? Kind of hard to discern any reasoning in your wall of text.

I am no audio expert, but I have found that boomy box pointed into corner makes more boomy noise.

[Toxicknight79]

1 hour ago, SSL said:

 

Any justification for the last two recommendations? Kind of hard to discern any reasoning in your wall of text.

the wall of text is to explain that One,,,,,,, if a subwoofer is made with a sealed box  (meaning no port)  the way  you angle it  so that the subwoofer is facing a corner,      if a sub has a ported box the port is where all the bass is not the woofer so you determine your subwoofers position by its port not the speaker. Theres a lot more to understanding sound pressure levels then simple answers.

 

Also since the OP has a down firing woofer , think of the corner as a satellite dish and the sound waves are bouncing off the dish like a signal bouncing  off the dish to a receiver only opposite. in their case ,,,, if the floor angled sub has no port on either side which I should have said this in the other post, but   a down ward port too ,, I almost want to advise them to center the subwoofer  on the back wall, as it might  produce more sound ,,, not sure if that would work though depends on the output of the subwoofer. and running its maximum RMS wattage.

 

Throwing a couple of useful youtube links.

ALtec Lansing Explanation to SPL

Guide to subwoofer placement

[SSL]

1 hour ago, Toxicknight79 said:

the wall of text is to explain that One,,,,,,, if a subwoofer is made with a sealed box  (meaning no port)  the way  you angle it  so that the subwoofer is facing a corner,      if a sub has a ported box the port is where all the bass is not the woofer so you determine your subwoofers position by its port not the speaker. Theres a lot more to understanding sound pressure levels then simple answers.

 

Also since the OP has a down firing woofer , think of the corner as a satellite dish and the sound waves are bouncing off the dish like a signal bouncing  off the dish to a receiver only opposite. in their case ,,,, if the floor angled sub has no port on either side which I should have said this in the other post, but   a down ward port too ,, I almost want to advise them to center the subwoofer  on the back wall, as it might  produce more sound ,,, not sure if that would work though depends on the output of the subwoofer. and running its maximum RMS wattage.

 

Throwing a couple of useful youtube links.

ALtec Lansing Explanation to SPL

Guide to subwoofer placement

 

What I was mainly aiming for was the reasoning for doing any of this. Yes, corner loading a sub will boost the bass, but this isn't necesarilly the best or most desirable outcome.

[Toxicknight79]

3 hours ago, SSL said:

 

What I was mainly aiming for was the reasoning for doing any of this. Yes, corner loading a sub will boost the bass, but this isn't necesarilly the best or most desirable outcome.

Oh you are right about that , not arguing with you there but  the subwoofer crawl thing  can be a pain in the *** I figured  corner load it and be done with it but no you are right , it might  sound more punch, but not necessarily  cleaner.

[EndlessOyster]

8 hours ago, Toxicknight79 said:

The subwoofer angling thing has different factors involved. You first  have to understand  how the whole SPL thing works,,,, and  whether or not the thing is a ported or sealed ,,,  ported  means you need to have your port  working the angle not the speaker it self  ,, since its the port that  acts as a tuning device to   deliver  a  louder frequency at a certain frequency.  I've always found that  a sealed box though,  angle the  speaker into the corner of a room (or car where ever your putting it so on) produces a,,, sorta like what  audio fans call a band pass where the  pressure is increased do to a forced volume of feet that's closed off , this also results in your  wall becoming part of the speaker at a certain amount of volume due to the pressure vibrating the wall just enough to reproduce the same sound ( this can also lead to  needing  house repairs if its a high wattage   and output sub lol) People try to tell you that bass, is omni directional, it is once your far enough away ,,, but   where it counts ,, it is not so universal.  so  my suggestion is ,,,, the sub is better behind you   towards a corner if sealed ,, or if the port is on one side and the sub the other (which for some reason  pc speaker manufactures do sometimes)  point the port into the corner,,,, 

 

6 hours ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

I am no audio expert, but I have found that boomy box pointed into corner makes more boomy noise.

You guys are using something called the Waterhouse effect.
If you take a sub woofer which is omnidirectional (audio going out in every direction) some of the audio is going away from you. So by placing the sub next to a wall the audio is reflected off the wall and towards you. Having the sub against one wall (the floor) the volume is doubled, against two walls (floor and a wall) increase it by 4x, and placing it in a corner so three walls its 8x louder. But each time you add a surface you increase the amount of room modes. So placing it in the corner will make it louder but only louder in certain areas other areas it may be slightly quieter. Audiophiles agreed that using four subs and placing them in the centre of a wall on the floor in a square room, produces the loudest SPL and the least room modes (normally non if in a perfect square).
Heres a link to some more info, not very big but very informative
https://trueaudio.com/array/downloads/Waterhouse-Output%20of%20a%20sound%20source%201958.pdf


My opinion on the subwoofer crawl is people just dont understand acoustics well enough to just know where to place something, or they dont know the maths to work out room modes. So they have to crawl on the floor like a idiot and it just falls into place. but hey who needs to know maths when this little website does it for you http://amroc.andymel.eu/

[spwath]

2 hours ago, EndlessOyster said:

My opinion on the subwoofer crawl is people just dont understand acoustics well enough to just know where to place something, or they dont know the maths to work out room modes. So they have to crawl on the floor like a idiot and it just falls into place. but hey who needs to know maths when this little website does it for you http://amroc.andymel.eu/

Could you help explain that to me?

not really sure exactly what all the information the site gives means

[EndlessOyster]

1 hour ago, spwath said:

Could you help explain that to me?

not really sure exactly what all the information the site gives means

With low frequencies its common for a wave length to be large then a room. Since sound is made up of low pressure and high pressure areas changing, with low frequencies being so big you can have the hole low pressure fit the room. So it can be loud at the edge of the room but quite in the middle because of the length of wave. This is called a room mode, its quite common to have multiple in a room.
http://prntscr.com/aee3rd

 

So on that website you type in your room dimension and it calculates where there will be room modes. E.g. in my 2m x 4m x 2.5m room I will have a room mode at 43 HZ the red shaded in areas are where it is loud and the blue is where it is quiet.
http://prntscr.com/aee4ij
But at 440Hz Its all over the place because the wave length is smaller so multiple high and low pressure areas can fit into my room.

[SSL]

7 hours ago, EndlessOyster said:

My opinion on the subwoofer crawl is people just dont understand acoustics well enough to just know where to place something, or they dont know the maths to work out room modes. So they have to crawl on the floor like a idiot and it just falls into place. but hey who needs to know maths when this little website does it for you http://amroc.andymel.eu/

 

It's not idiocy, it's recognizing the difference between theory and practice. The numbers are great until they aren't; crawling will get the best results every time. Also, no reason the methods can't be combined - REW also offers tools for not only simulating but TESTING placement.

[spwath]

3 hours ago, EndlessOyster said:

With low frequencies its common for a wave length to be large then a room. Since sound is made up of low pressure and high pressure areas changing, with low frequencies being so big you can have the hole low pressure fit the room. So it can be loud at the edge of the room but quite in the middle because of the length of wave. This is called a room mode, its quite common to have multiple in a room.
http://prntscr.com/aee3rd

 

So on that website you type in your room dimension and it calculates where there will be room modes. E.g. in my 2m x 4m x 2.5m room I will have a room mode at 43 HZ the red shaded in areas are where it is loud and the blue is where it is quiet.
http://prntscr.com/aee4ij
But at 440Hz Its all over the place because the wave length is smaller so multiple high and low pressure areas can fit into my room.

Would that be the same as nodes and anti- nodes?

 

29 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

It's not idiocy, it's recognizing the difference between theory and practice. The numbers are great until they aren't; crawling will get the best results every time. Also, no reason the methods can't be combined - REW also offers tools for not only simulating but TESTING placement.

Besides, the numbers didn't take into account furniture. And you don't know exactly What you subjectively like.

[Dackzy]

8 minutes ago, spwath said:

Besides, the numbers didn't take into account furniture. And you don't know exactly What you subjectively like.

And what density your specific things have.