Do NOT use WiFi extenders!

[Belgiangurista]

... And throw them away in the garbage now!

 

 

Hey all,

 

I've recently joined the LTT forums after lurking on Youtube for about ... 4 or 5 years now. That's when I started as an ISP install technician. For the past year, I have been working for the same ISP, as a repair technician. I love my job and have a never ending curiousity on how technology works. That's why I took my time to explain something I encounter in the field almost daily and something I got so sick and tired of hearing: 

 

COMPLAINT#1: WiFi. 

- Why doesn't it reach to my childrens' bedroom on the 2nd floor?

>> Well sir, did you not find the dial on your Wireless modem? 

 

All WiFi power output is regulated, 100mWatt (2.4GHz) and 1Watt (5GHz) is the max output in Europe. 

Technology advances, different WiFi versions have certain advantages over the older ones. For example WiFi ac has the ability to 'beamform' and track your device around the house. Ok, you'll gain 2 meters of coverage. 

 

- Ok.. So I need an Extender. I bought one, but the WiFi still sucks?

>> Well sir, you've bought the wrong product.

 

Its intentions are good: extend and repeat the WiFi signal to get more coverage. You buy it cheap and put it into the plug between the main wireless AP (access point) and you.

 

You found a free plug ideal to repeat the signal!

Remember in order to repeat the WiFi, you have to receive the WiFi. That thick concrete floor is still going to block the signal. And OMG: Isolation!! These days they put aluminium inside interior walls, WTF!!! WiFi and heat are radiation, it all gets bounced back...

 

The quality of the Extender doesn't matter!

You went ahead and bought the 'Devolo' or 'Belkin' or 'TP-Link'. The well known brands are better at repeating the signal, you'd think? Mmmaybe. I'm sure some smart people develop these things. You also get them in ac WiFi versions...

 

- BUT WHY DO THEY SUCK SO MUCH THEN?

 

>> They work like a meeting being held with Walkie-Talkies and the people at the meeing are only allowed to speak to the chairman.

 

The WiFi extender can only do one thing at a time: RECEIVE then TRANSMIT then RECEIVE the acknowledgement (like 'roger!') then TRANSMITS to the AP the air is clear to send another message (like 'over!').

So first off, you lose out alot of the internet speed because it has to receive WiFi, it then loses alot of the speed because it serves you WiFi in an area where the reception wasn't all that great to start with. 

The 4 'ticks' causes delays and gives you the perception of slow internet.

When you bring a second client into the extenders' network, and they both want quality internet here's what happens:

AP >> Ext >> Client1 >> Client1 ack (roger!) >> Ext (over!)  >> AP >> AP >> Ext >> Client2 (roger!) >> Ext (over!) >> AP

MIMO (multiple input, multiple output)? forget it!

 

UGH 

 

Ever wondered why those devices are so small and light compared to an AP or Router? Where do you think all that nifty technology hides?

Antennas? (there's usually one, a tiny one. compare that to any AP or router with 2x2, 3x3, ...)

 

- Right mr Verizon (lol, no) what do I use for coverage then?

 

- Ideally an ethernet cable plus an AP somewhere on the other side/floor of the house where you get bad reception. But not everyone has ethernet cables and usually has wives allergic to cables. 

- Homeplugs + AP would be your second best option, when you have good electric wiring.  

The homeplugs come in versions: from 'AV' (does the job) to 'G.hn' (much better) 'AV2' (even better) but have their price. They're able to give you a stable internet connection through the electrical plugs of your house. (they've come alooooong way, the technology behind it is amazing and maybe i'll do another post about them.)

 

 

tl:dr

WiFi extenders are crap. they receive WiFi to send WiFi, the antenna's in them suck and multiple devices at once get bottlenecked by its capabilities.

 

Linus, you can use any of the content here, you have my consent.

English is not my mothertongue. forgive the grammar/spelling mistakes.

[Nathat23]

Powerline to a Access Point is the way to go imo

[Tearitup]

Extenders generally cut the speed in half. A wired repeater/AP with transparency is the way to go.

[vanished]

woah, Europe is limited to 100 mW?  I wonder what it is here... honestly I've never looked, but the sticker on the router claims that it draws 2 W so that power is going somewhere... maybe not into transmission but it has to be something. 

[iamdarkyoshi]

Find used enterprise grade APs for cheap. Damn amazing, I can get over 30mb/s speeds in the driveway with ONE AP being used in the entire property

[Belgiangurista]

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

woah, Europe is limited to 100 mW?  I wonder what it is here... honestly I've never looked, but the sticker on the router claims that it draws 2 W so that power is going somewhere... maybe not into transmission but it has to be something. 

well, that's for the 2.4GHz band, US is limited to 200mW i believe.

Higher frequencies impair more, so 5GHz is limited to around 1Watt in Europe.

 

Asus actually got close to have a lawsuit by competitor brands for outputting more then 100mW on their ac66u (iirc), a firmware update fixed everything magically...

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Belgiangurista said:

well, that's for the 2.4GHz band, US is limited to 200mW i believe.

Higher frequencies impair more, so 5GHz is limited to around 1Watt in Europe.

 

Asus actually got close to have a lawsuit by competitor brands for outputting more then 100mW on their ac66u (iirc), a firmware update fixed everything magically...

Interesting... that suggests that a firmware "update" could also drastically improve range and signal... 

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Interesting... that suggests that a firmware "update" could also drastically improve range and signal... 

Keep in mind some router's thermal design only allows for a certain radio power. I am pushing at least twice as much power out of my router as the original config after I added some cooling to it (not my AP, the router is for "dumb" devices with no option to add a hidden SSID, still doesn't manage half the speeds of my AP)

[vanished]

Just now, iamdarkyoshi said:

Keep in mind some router's thermal design only allows for a certain radio power. I am pushing at least twice as much power out of my router as the original config after I added some cooling to it (not my AP, the router is for "dumb" devices with no option to add a hidden SSID, still doesn't manage half the speeds of my AP)

@LinusTech Do I hear a hacked liquid cooled range boosted router video coming soon?

[iamdarkyoshi]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

@LinusTech Do I hear a hacked liquid cooled range boosted router video coming soon?

Actually all it needed was a small fan from an 8400 GT

[vanished]

Just now, iamdarkyoshi said:

Actually all it needed was a small fan from an 8400 GT

Then you didn't crank it up enough

[Belgiangurista]

18 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Find used enterprise grade APs for cheap. Damn amazing, I can get over 30mb/s speeds in the driveway with ONE AP being used in the entire property

Yep. They only transmit what is regulated to. With one difference: the WiFi signal shape of your private wifi is an like an apple. That of enterprise grade APs is a long stretched elipse. Speeds go down but coverage goes up.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Belgiangurista

[iamdarkyoshi]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Then you didn't crank it up enough

I would OC the shit out of the CPU if they didnt freaking lock the clock speed.

 

2 minutes ago, Belgiangurista said:

Yep. The only transmit what is regulated to. With one difference: the WiFi signal shape of your private wifi is an like an apple. That of enterprise grade APs os a long stretched elipse. Speeds go down bit coverage goes up.

Yet the speeds on my enterprise AP (which is only like a 300mbit AP) kill the speeds on my router, which is several years newer (but it is consumer crap)

[Coaxialgamer]

37 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

woah, Europe is limited to 100 mW?  I wonder what it is here... honestly I've never looked, but the sticker on the router claims that it draws 2 W so that power is going somewhere... maybe not into transmission but it has to be something. 

probably heat most of it coming from loss in cables / power supply

[zoski]

I used to administrate the wifi network of the computer club of my school during my studies. We got 6-7 APs and routers, all runing under DD-WRT, with this soft we could increase the emission power beyond the authorised one (the EU one). The range of the APs were amazing whereas it was old stuff.

 

At home I use the home plug + AP technique to extend wifi. Easy to set-up but transform the home into a big antenna :-/

 

[Tearitup]

We use Ubiquiti Networks' UniFi AP at my place of work - both in the office and when we install networks. They work really well.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Tearitup said:

We use Ubiquiti Networks' UniFi AP at my place of work - both in the office and when we install networks. They work really well.

Yea!!  I don't suppose they selected them based on this: ?

 

 

[Tearitup]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yea!!  I don't suppose they selected them based on this: ?

 

 

Nope - I haven't seen that video before and my boss doesn't even know of Linus (shame! lol) but it is no surprise. They are great APs.

[KuJoe]

I've bought multiple different repeaters/extenders and even added more routers to expand my wireless in my house with no luck. The final fix that worked 100% right out of the box were the Ubiquiti UniFi APs. I got two that go into the wall and replace the RJ-45 outlets I already had, then I put them on opposite sides of the house and disabled the WIFI on my router, and now I have coverage in every corner of my house and all of my backyard.

 

Link: https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-wall/

[Big-G]

5 hours ago, Nathat23 said:

Powerline to a Access Point is the way to go imo

Only useful if the power in the premises is not on shared infrastructure like in units/apartments where the signal will have a lot of competition...