Which is the Best Camera for Tech Videos (Cinematic)

[Exfork]

Hey Guys,

 

Im Searching for an upgrade. In the Moment i have the Canon 600D and i want to upgrade. I need one for Travel so like a Compact one. And i need a Big one which makes good Videos. I also want that the Big one can switch lenses because, Camcoder dont have a nice looking for my opinion.

 

So please send me a few Modells.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Simon

 

sry for this grammar im from germany

[AllHokage]

Compact: Sony RX100 (Latest Model)

Big: Canon EOS 70D

 

You never set a budget so can't really help that much (choose something in middle class)...

[Dredgy]

Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5K. Fantastic cinematic image, interchangeable lenses, cheap enough to rig and light enough to travel with.

[ShadowCaptain]

A7R2 - does the job of both, its small light, interchangeable lens, shoots 4k and is an amazing stills camera

[ALwin]

These are the cameras you need if you want a cinematic look.  There's no point in getting any other camera.  You can always sell a spare kidney, lung, your mom, sister and daughter (make them work at the street corner) to finance one of these babies.

 

 

 

[boarder2k7]

Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5K. Fantastic cinematic image, interchangeable lenses, cheap enough to rig and light enough to travel with.

How's the image noise on the 2.5k? I have the 4k and the noise in low light is awful.

Not sure I'd want to travel with one because of the battery life.

[ALwin]

But seriously, what is wrong with your Canon 600D that you feel you need to upgrade?  It's a good camera and still capable of recording decent video.  Newer/more expensive/better camera does not equal better video production.

 

To be able to create better video requires skill, training, practice, experience.

[ALwin]

How's the image noise on the 2.5k? I have the 4k and the noise in low light is awful.

Not sure I'd want to travel with one because of the battery life.

 

They are not designed to be low light kings.  The Ursa and Ursa Mini are supposed to have a better high ISO noise performance than the BMCC.

[Dredgy]

How's the image noise on the 2.5k? I have the 4k and the noise in low light is awful.

Not sure I'd want to travel with one because of the battery life.

 

No idea, I have an URSA. And any camera's noise when underexposed is awful. I'm having huge issues on my DSLR right now trying to get everything exposed correctly (though I lack a monitor for it). The 2.5 has a higher base sensitivity and dynamic range than the 4K sensor and most BM users agree it's their best sensor in terms of "look".

 

I find the Blackmagic 4K sensor with a fast lens is a dream to work with in lowish light, and I've used it at dusk, evening and pre-dawn without issue. Fixed noise is an issue when I switch to my slower kit lens though (but nowhere near as bad as I'm getting right now with my DSLR in good lighting and with a cine lens), but with a cine lens on there, it's consistently beautiful and really easy to get a great shot.

[ALwin]

I really recommend people stop relying on their cameras' ISO sensitivity levels to shoot in low light or night time conditions.  Hollywood uses a technique called Day for Night where scenes that are supposed to take place in evening and night time hours are actually shot in day time.

 

This technique will help keep the noise levels down.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_for_night

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-shoot-day-for-night-in-your-dslr-film.html

[boarder2k7]

They are not designed to be low light kings. The Ursa and Ursa Mini are supposed to have a better high ISO noise performance than the BMCC.

I don't expect it to be a low light king, but I was very disappointed with the amount of fixed and dynamic noise when I shot my friend's wedding with it. Inside a well lit (though not cinematically lit) church, Canon 50 mm 1.4 USM set to F 2 I believe it was.

I find its okay when first started, but it doesn't have enough cooling and the heat adds a ton of additional noise. It's battery life is way less than spec too.

I'm currently waiting on an URSA mini review sample. I have higher hopes for the actively cooled sensor.

[ALwin]

I don't expect it to be a low light king, but I was very disappointed with the amount of fixed and dynamic noise when I shot my friend's wedding with it. Inside a well lit (though not cinematically lit) church, Canon 50 mm 1.4 USM set to F 2 I believe it was.

I find its okay when first started, but it doesn't have enough cooling and the heat adds a ton of additional noise. It's battery life is way less than spec too.

I'm currently waiting on an URSA mini review sample. I have higher hopes for the actively cooled sensor.

 

Is your Ursa using the first generation or second generation 4K sensor?  I read that they updated the sensor about a year or so ago.

 

As for the battery life... yep I've heard that the Ursa is a power hog.  I don't have experience with V/Gold mount batteries, and last year when I was looking to buy a new video camera (namely the Ursa Mini) the type of battery it uses kept putting me off, one of several reasons.  Now I am happy with my Sony.

[boarder2k7]

I really recommend people stop relying on their cameras' ISO sensitivity levels to shoot in low light or night time conditions. Hollywood uses a technique called Day for Night where scenes that are supposed to take place in evening and night time hours are actually shot in day time.

This technique will help keep the noise levels down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_for_night

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-shoot-day-for-night-in-your-dslr-film.html

Yeah this is the best way to go, but it doesn't help when you don't have enough light for the camera to deal with though. In the wedding scenario I mentioned, I think my Canon 60d would have actually shot better video, but I wasn't asked for video until 12 hours before I had to be on site, and couldn't source another camera for pictures. (Isn't wedding photography fun?)

Is your Ursa using the first generation or second generation 4K sensor? I read that they updated the sensor about a year or so ago.

As for the battery life... yep I've heard that the Ursa is a power hog. I don't have experience with V/Gold mount batteries myself, and last year when I was looking to buy a new video camera (namely the Ursa Mini) the type of battery it uses kept putting me off. Now I am happy with my Sony.

I don't have the URSA yet, it's still pending. I'm trying to get the newer 4.6k sensor one because I've heard it solved many of the 4k sensor noise issues.

Not sure about the URSA battery life, though I expect the active cooled sensor is thirsty. I was referring to the cinema 4k, which in my experience is lucky to get about half of its rated 90 minute battery life.

[ALwin]

snip

 

As a photographer, I make it one of my high priority rules to stay away from doing wedding photography.

 

OK, I thought you used the Ursa for your friend's wedding videos.  Anyway if you have to choose between getting the Ursa and the Ursa Mini, if you want portability get the Ursa Mini.  The bigger Ursa allows for you can swap sensors and lens mounts, but it weighs a whopping 8 kilos.  Add the V/Gold mount batteries to it and you are going to break your back carrying that thing.

 

Also, here are some things to consider regarding the Ursa/Ursa Mini:

1. Black Magic keeps pushing back the delivery dates of the new Ursa Mini cameras, I think only a handful of people have received their pre-orders.
2. V/Gold mount batteries, good ones, are expensive.  As neither the Ursa or Ursa Mini come with batteries or chargers, you'd need to buy the battery mounting plate (for the Ursa Mini) as an accessory, batteries and chargers.  A good V/Gold mount battery goes for around $300-400 a piece, and a good charger is about the price of one battery.
3. CFast 2.0 cards can cost as much as decent XQD memory cards.
4. Viewfinder is a separate accessory.

Add that all up and you might as well be buying a Sony FS5 or FS7.  Which comes with 1 battery, charger, viewfinder, mini LCD screen, handle, the FS7 also comes with a WiFi dongle for controlling the camera with a mobile phone, built in GPS for geotagging.  Also the Sony FS5/FS7 seem to have a better ISO/Noise performance than the Ursa.

[Dredgy]

 

OK, I thought you used the Ursa for your friend's wedding videos.  Anyway if you have to choose between getting the Ursa and the Ursa Mini, if you want portability get the Ursa Mini.  The bigger Ursa allows for you can swap sensors and lens mounts, but it weighs a whopping 8 kilos.  Add the V/Gold mount batteries to it and you are going to break your back carrying that thing.

 

Also, here are some things to consider regarding the Ursa/Ursa Mini:

1. Black Magic keeps pushing back the delivery dates of the new Ursa Mini cameras, I think only a handful of people have received their pre-orders.
2. V/Gold mount batteries, good ones, are expensive.  As neither the Ursa or Ursa Mini come with batteries or chargers, you'd need to buy the battery mounting plate (for the Ursa Mini) as an accessory, batteries and chargers.  A good V/Gold mount battery goes for around $300-400 a piece, and a good charger is about the price of one battery.
3. CFast 2.0 cards can cost as much as decent XQD memory cards.
4. Viewfinder is a separate accessory.

 

URSA is not *that* heavy and is the perfect size to be shoulder mounted. The problem is mainly economical - a a good shoulder mount kit is about $2k from Wooden Camera, plus $1.5k for a viewfinder. At that point, an URSA Mini with the first party shoulder kit would come into play.

To address your other points:

 

1. Yep. 4K version is now in production though and you will likely get it as soon you order it (think B&H are still filling backorders, but everywhere else is fine). 4,6K is nowhere to be seen. I'm looking forward to the upgrade to my URSA.

2. Power-U makes quality V-Mount batteries for cheap. A 130Wh will run you under $200 US and includes a D-Tap connect, a power level indicator (which is useful, cause Ursa doesn't have one) and are rechargeable from the wall.

3. CFast is expensive, but pro tip, buy from here while you can. They are accepting offers as low as $150US for 256GB cards, and $70US for 128GB cards. They are legit (I have 10) but are a discontinued model, and can't push high frame RAW as well as something like my Transcend 650.

4. Yep. And expensive

 

 

@boarder2k7 If you have any other URSA questions, shoot. I've just shot a review of it and it will be published on the 27th.

[ALwin]

snip

 

My Video/Audio supplier has an Ursa on display, their rental model.  I have tried it out, I feel that it's actually too big and heavy to be shoulder mounted, compared to the Ursa Mini and FS5/FS7.  My Nikon D800 + 70-200 weighs just under 2.5KG.  The FS7 weighs just 2K for the body, that's 6kg less than the big Ursa.

 

I know that there are cheaper V/Gold mount batteries out there, but are they all certified to be flight worthy?  Airlines have restrictions on how much lithium can be carried together on a plane.

 

The Sony FS5 uses SD memory cards. So they should be cheaper than CFast. 

 

Lets compare a kitted out Ursa Mini to a FS5, using B&H prices and the prices you mentioned.  Kitted out includes:

• body
• lens
• mic
• memory cards
• batteries
• viewfinder
• we won't include the shoulder mount kit, as the FS5 is designed more for handheld usage.

Sony FS5: $5600

Sony 50mm 1.8 lens: $300

Shotgun mic, NTG2: $270

Memory cards: 128GB Sandisk SD cards, $80 each, $160 for two cards

total: $6330

 

Ursa Mini 4K EF: $3000

Canon 50 1.8: $125

Shotgun mic, NTG2 with shock mount: $300  (the Ursa Mini doesn't come with a mic mount)

Memory cards: 2x 128GB = $140

Battery: $200

Battery mounting plate: $100

Viewfinder: $1500

Total: $5365

 

The Mini 4.6K would added another $2000

 

The FS5 doesn't record 4K 60p, only 4K 30p max hence the SD memory cards.  But I believe it has a better low light capable sensor than the Ursa Mini 4K.  Additionally it offers more slow motion frame rates, albeit buffered slow motion.  It also comes with integrated ND filters and a new electronic variable ND filter system.

 

Sony not only provides a battery and a charger, but also an AC adapter for the camera.  Also a top handle kit.  With the Ursa Mini, the top handle is part of the shoulder kit.

[Dredgy]

 

I know that there are cheaper V/Gold mount batteries out there, but are they all certified to be flight worthy?  Airlines have restrictions on how much lithium can be carried together on a plane.

 

Anything under 140Wh I believe is airworthy (for hand luggage, I think - I'm not sure on the exact restrictions). I'm travelling with mine next week. Watch the news for exploding airliners.

 

I have no idea on that comparison, I don't follow cameras in that "run and gun" bracket, neither the FS5 or Ursa Mini are of any interest to me, by the looks of it, both are great value.

 

As for the weight, interesting. I'm old now and not as strong as I used to be, but I have no problem with Ursa. If I was shoulder mounting though, I would want a big, Alexa-style rig that makes the camera feel small. It's smaller than most broadcast cameras I see news crews carry around here.

[ALwin]

As for the weight, interesting. I'm old now and not as strong as I used to be, but I have no problem with Ursa. If I was shoulder mounting though, I would want a big, Alexa-style rig that makes the camera feel small. It's smaller than most broadcast cameras I see news crews carry around here.

 

You'd be surprised how light some of those large broadcast cameras that news reporters use.  Yes some can be as heavy or heavier than the Ursa, but many are around 4-6kg, including the lens.

[Dredgy]

You'd be surprised how light some of those large broadcast cameras that news reporters use.  Yes some can be as heavy or heavier than the Ursa, but many are around 4-6kg, including the lens.

Well I'm unlikely to be shoulder mounting mine any time soon. Too many things this year I actually have to spend money on.

[ALwin]

Well I'm unlikely to be shoulder mounting mine any time soon. Too many things this year I actually have to spend money on.

 

I dare you to strap a few V mount batteries to your belt, wire them up and try to get onto an airplane...

[Dredgy]

I dare you to strap a few V mount batteries to your belt, wire them up and try to get onto an airplane...

My last probably already means the federal police will be stopping by today.

Though this is Australia, air travel is pretty lax, and I'm that airports most frequent flyer so I could probably pull it off.

[Exfork]

Thank you so much this is a very nice list of Cameras THANK YOU

[ShadowCaptain]

Thank you so much this is a very nice list of Cameras THANK YOU

 

But honestly "cinematic" is down to technique, not just equiptment

 

buying an FS7 does not mean you will take better looking video than your 600d

 

honestly you could easily shoot something "cinematic" on a 600d or 5dmk3 or sometihng, - get some nice glass, some good lighting, and learn how to shoot properly

[ALwin]

snip

 

Agreed! It's primarily going to be about technique and story telling.

 

Whether one shoots with a tiny sensor camera or a large sensor camera, no one is ever going to consider a tech review, unboxing, gaming video to be "cinematic".

[AlanAlan]

Hey Guys,

 

Im Searching for an upgrade. In the Moment i have the Canon 600D and i want to upgrade. I need one for Travel so like a Compact one. And i need a Big one which makes good Videos. I also want that the Big one can switch lenses because, Camcoder dont have a nice looking for my opinion.

 

So please send me a few Modells.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Simon

 

sry for this grammar im from germany

 

Sony Alpha a7S II

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX1R II

Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 IV

Blackmagic Design Production Camera 4K