AMD power usage misconception

[App4that]

Not really, running valley doesnt really show us anything. Running BF4 with supersampling on a 64 person map is a huge load both on the gpu's and the cpu.

Running a synthetic bench doesnt load the CPU at all

I ll change my mind if you show us a video running bf4 with supersampling and show the wattage meter

You haven't read the topic then. I've played Skyrim, Witcher 3, and run Firestrike and Valley. I posted the Valley numbers because that was the highest wattage pull and temperature. I run Witcher 3 at full ultra.

[winningsince1337]

snip

That 660w is also with the power supply's inefficiency. Assuming your power supply is 90% efficient, you're looking around 600w of load on the PSU itself.

[xAcid9]

You are missing the point. And it is true that the 390 series has better memory timings, but this is only logical considering that they had over a year to mod the bios. And many people can use that same bios on their 290 series card. My point was that the difference between a 290 and a 390 at the same clock speeds is almost negligible. And unless you are an engineer from AMD, what proof do you have that "the memory controller can't really cope without producing errors"? Hynix memory on 290(x) was designed to run stable at 1500mhz. It can be clocked passed that and be just fine. 

Have you try 390 BIOSes in your 290? It's not as simple as you said it was, most of the BIOS is not remotely stable for 290 series cards even after you've tinkered with the voltage tables and DPM levels unless it use the same PCB as the 390. 

 

@App4that since you have both 290 and 390, can you bench both cards at the same clock speed but it must be the same or higher than 390 stock clock.

 

I'm talking about the memory controller on the Hawaii chip. This is a quote from The Stilt, a software engineer and overclocker.

 

Hawaii with AFR or Elpida doesn´t seem to do over 1450MHz or so without EDC (ECC errors).

 

Increasing VDDCI will help slightly, but the I´ve never seen an air cooled Hawaii card to do past 1480MHz without at least one of the eight sequencers producing errors. The EDC is slightly problematic as there is no way the end user can monitor those and they are not visible as artifacts (due correction) either. You just will end up basically wasting cycles when you push the memory too high. The Hynix AFR modules themselves can do >1700MHz easily just like on other cards, however the eight memory controllers cannot.

 

For Grenada, AMD most likely latched some of the timings affecting the latency between different controllers / memory channels to achieve higher memory clocking without errors. Since there are literally at least a hundred different memory timings, I neither have the time or will to find the correct one(s) and tune them for Hawaii.

Part of the difference might be caused by the newer GDDR5 (Hynix Polaris) die manufactured on smaller node.

 

At 1375MHz and with tuned latencies you should by no means be limited by the bandwidth anyway.

 

Sauce: http://www.overclock.net/t/1561904/mlu-bios-builds-for-290x/0_20#post_24120051

 

Oh yeah, since you've just bought a reference 290x, maybe you can give his BIOS a try.

[App4that]

 

 

@App4that since you have both 290 and 390, can you bench both cards at the same clock speed but it must be the same or higher than 390 stock clock.

 

 

Yep, the 390 got 4% better scores in benchmarks. And that was giving the 290 10MHz to compensate for 50MHz difference in memory speed. The difference in power efficiency and heat is night and day with the 390 the clear winner. It's actually a shocking difference when you have both cards next to each other. And I have the Vapor-x 290 which has a better cooler than the Nitro.

[YubinTheBunny]

Question mate. Why are you running a 290 and a 390 in the same system? Are you running some weird crossfire configuration?

AMD allows cross gen CrossFire as long as the chips are the same family group. I used to run a HD7970 x R9 280x and it worked perfectly fine.

[App4that]

Question mate. Why are you running a 290 and a 390 in the same system? Are you running some weird crossfire configuration?

Yes, but it's not technically weird. The latest drivers from AMD allow any AMD GPU to crossfire and keep all it's specs. REALLY cool when it works. Only game I can't sort out is Witcher 3 where the character menu has it's icons flashing where you choose skills.

 

EDIT, has to be able to crossfire without a bridge. have to mention that.

[App4that]

It's cool, but almost a waste. The 390 plays the most demanding game I have which is Witcher 3 at ultra settings all by it's self. If Fallout doesn't need the crossfire I'm probably going to sell the 290.

[winningsince1337]

That's pretty bad ass lol. Your GPU configuration probably rapes my card. I kinda am sad that I sold off my HD 7970s that were MSi Lightning Editions too dur lol. I would have those cards inside of my X99 rig with my 980 Ti to unleash a whole lot of lightning into space .

Oh well, just get another 980ti lightning when pascal comes out and the price drops and you can do it all over again

[App4that]

Oh well, just get another 980ti lightning when pascal comes out and the price drops and you can do it all over again

Not how it worked for AMD. I had to get a 390 because the 290's were too expensive.

[don_svetlio]

This Christmas I am thinking of buying another one.

If you can afford it it's a decent investment.

[don_svetlio]

I think you mean "a decent toy" rather than investment. I'm not making a dime off of my PC, I make Youtube videos, but I don't put ads with the videos. So no money is being made with my PC.

I'd like to look at it this way

if you have 2x 980 Tis, you will likely be fine for longer than with a single card.

[App4that]

Very true, it's just that you used the word investment incorrectly lol. Although your right 2x 980 Ti's would last me for a couple of years at least.

Value is a funny thing, most people see their time as worthless. Why I don't know. and *you're

[don_svetlio]

Very true, it's just that you used the word investment incorrectly lol. Although your right 2x 980 Ti's would last me for a couple of years at least.

Yep - much more than say a 860M - though honestly game requirements are overexaggerated even now. I mean, if a simple 750 Ti can run Witcher 3 1080p 30-40fps fine I don't exactly believe you will have issues with a 750 Ti and 30 fps in a year. Maybe 2 yes but it's still fine.

[afyeung]

Not how it worked for AMD. I had to get a 390 because the 290's were too expensive.

Obviously if you try to buy an EOL product brand new at a big box retailer when they are not having a sale, it will be more expensive. I got my MSI 290 for $143, the cheapest 390 at that time was $260, so I saved more than $100. I'm also surprised how cheap the 780 series is now. Like EVGA had b stock 780ti Kingpins for around $190. Those were people's $800 dream cards not too long ago. If Pascal can do single GPU 4k gaming for around the same price as current gen cards, the 980ti will most likely have the same resale value drops like the 780ti did. 

[App4that]

Obviously if you try to buy an EOL product brand new at a big box retailer when they are not having a sale, it will be more expensive. I got my MSI 290 for $143, the cheapest 390 at that time was $260, so I saved more than $100. I'm also surprised how cheap the 780 series is now. Like EVGA had b stock 780ti Kingpins for around $190. Those were people's $800 dream cards not too long ago. If Pascal can do single GPU 4k gaming for around the same price as current gen cards, the 980ti will most likely have the same resale value drops like the 780ti did.

Maybe, I know I'll grab a 980ti if that happens. I only buy Sapphire if I buy AMD, just a thing with me. And for Sapphire the 290x is cheaper than the 290 right now.

[afyeung]

Maybe, I know I'll grab a 980ti if that happens. I only buy Sapphire if I buy AMD, just a thing with me. And for Sapphire the 290x is cheaper than the 290 right now.

Yeah, but it's only worth it if you get at least a 1440p or 4k monitor. Like the 290x used to be the highest end card which could barely play 1440p. Now the highest end cards can max 1440p and barely play 4k, while mid ranged cards like the 390(x) are better suited for 1440p/1080p. Next gen, mid ranged cards will barely be able to play 4k while high end cards can max 4k.

[byalexandr]

My 290 runs in 400W, I've liquid cooled it but not sure if I should try OCing it.

[App4that]

My 290 runs in 400W, I've liquid cooled it but not sure if I should try OCing it.

Damn, that's high. What brand?

 

You meant on, saw your title :lol:

[byalexandr]

Damn, that's high. What brand?

 

You meant on, saw your title :lol:

Oh! Lol no, I wouldn't have a 290 if it drew 400W. My PSU couldn't take it then (it barely does now).

[App4that]

Oh! Lol no, I wouldn't have a 290 if it drew 400W. My PSU couldn't take it then (it barely does now).

I should have tested the wattage draw of just my 290 today, got lazy, was sick. The 390 at full load and the 290 at idle pull 360w. I figure about 40 of that is the 290 at idle but don't know for sure, cuz lazyness.

[byalexandr]

I should have tested the wattage draw of just my 290 today, got lazy, was sick. The 390 at full load and the 290 at idle pull 360w. I figure about 40 of that is the 290 at idle but don't know for sure, cuz lazyness.

390 does have less power draw though. I'm going to give it a try and see if I need to extinguish any flames.