Aerodynamic simulations, Total War Attila PC build $1200

[TheChris]

Greeting Master Builder! 
 
Guided by Linus Tech Tips team I was led to this forum to present my build before buying components in shops. 
This is my very first build so I am very sorry for obvious mistakes I have made during the process, well you will be the judges.
 
Main Goal of this PC: Aerodynamics model simulation software and Total War Attila gaming.
 
I want to play on best possible settings for Total War Attila ( I know it is not very well optimized even for a high end components but I want to get as close I can to best settings) and Warhammer in the future. 

 

This will be my main work for engineering studies. - So soft like Catia, Matlab or Inventor will be use non-stop here. 

I would like to play also Planetary Annihilation - I am generaly strategy type player if that information is of any significance.   
 
 
Budget: $1200
 
​Components: (color theme: Black-Red)
 
 

CPU: i7 4790K $340 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i74790k

CPU cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO $30 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2

GPU: Gigabyte Radeon R9 390 Gaming G1 $340 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr939g1gaming8gd

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-SLI LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $120 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz97xsli

RAM: Kingston Hyperx Ddr3 2X 4Gb 1600Mhz Cl9 Xmp Savage (Hx316C9Srk2/8) $50 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/kingston-memory-hx316c9srk28

SSD: Samsung SSD Evo 850 250GB (MZ-75E250B/EU) $90 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz75e250bam

HD:WD Caviar 1TB (WD10EZEX) $50 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex

Power supply: Corsair CS Series 650W Modular 80+ GOLD - CP-9020077-EU $100 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CP-9020077-UK-Builder-Series-Semi-Modular/dp/B00GN8VZ7U

Case: Nzxt SOURCE 340 - USB 3.0 \ (CA-S340W-B1) $75 https://pcpartpicker.com/part/nzxt-case-cas340wb1

 

Total: $1195

 

And here things I would like to ask you about:

 

1) How would you score this build from 1-10, and how I can improve it to get 10/10 in the desired price range?

2) Is 650W enough for this build knowing that I wish to overclock as much as cooling system and other components lets me?

3) Is any of component a big overkill for this build or quite contrary I have cheapen out on something?

4a)And the biggest of them: I do not fully see big difference in GPU creators - I know I have some R9 390 for MSI and Sapphire and Gigabyte so I choose cheapest (with neat look) of them but I do not know If this is wise approach.

4b) Even when I choose developer of the GPU there are still version of it and again I am not sure how significat the differences are. Can you explain that to me? ( I tried to research some benchmark but I didn't find any )

Thank you so much for anybody who would like to aid/comment/help/rebuke me 

[ReHWolution]

1) it's an overall 7.5/10 but it's a 11/10 according to your budget

2) Yes it is, it's enough to go under LN2 too

3) Not really, but maybe you'll need more RAM for your aerodynamic simulations, they use a LOT of RAM

4a) You can get the Nitro from Sapphire or the Gaming from MSI or the Gaming G1 from Gigabyte: they're all great lineups, don't worry.

4b) Which versions you want us to tell you more about?

[Shino]

1) How would you score this build from 1-10, and how I can improve it to get 10/10 in the desired price range?

9/10

 

2) Is 650W enough for this build knowing that I wish to overclock as much as cooling system and other components lets me?

Yep

 

3) Is any of component a big overkill for this build or quite contrary I have cheapen out on something?

 

Your cpu might be a bit overkill but then if your doing 3d modelling then you will probably need it.    also, I use to have 8g of ram and I was using all of it when doing 3d modelling and now i have 32G and I still hit the limit sometimes when loading in big 3d models, 16G is minimum if u want super smooth operation. (and i just do 3d modelling for fun, not even using it at professional level.) just chuck in another 8g when u got the spare cash.

 

4a)And the biggest of them: I do not fully see big difference in GPU creators - I know I have some R9 390 for MSI and Sapphire and Gigabyte so I choose cheapest (with neat look) of them but I do not know If this is wise approach.

Sapphire and Gigabytes are pretty good brands.

[TheChris]

ReHWolution & Shino thank for such a quick reply!

 

I would like to go with: Gigabyte Radeon R9 390 Gaming G1 (GV-R939G1 GAMING-8GD)

but there is also: GIGABYTE Radeon R9 390 GV-R939WF2-8GD (rev. 1.0) 8GB 512-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 ATX 

 

One and only difference I could find was: Core Clock Speed 1000 vs 1025, but is there more that this?

 

I worry about power supply due to a fact that on Gigabyte page it is said that requirement is 600 Watt but I do not know if they take overclocking of CPU and GPU info consideration with this estimation.

 

You are absolutely right about RAM but this purchase can wait till next pay check 

[kkpatel87]

-snip-

 

hi and welcome!

 

I have an Aerospace Engineering degree and i am currently working as an aerospace applications engineer so i might be able to provide some insight. On daily basis i use the following:

1. CATIA
2. Autodesk Inventor and AutoCAD
3. ANSYS
4. NASTRAN
5. NX
6. SciLab and MATLAB
7. Some other stuff that you will find out about when you get into programs and projects.

Here are my recommendations:

1. Max out RAM...minimum 32 GB
2. Scrap the R9 390...this is a work machine, go with a 980 TI, Titan, Quadro or FirePro...something with qualified and verified drivers.
3. Get a bigger SSD or another one and trash the mechanical HDD.

Let me know if you need any advice.

[TheChris]

Thank you all for great comment so far 

 

 

Here are my recommendations:

1. Max out RAM...minimum 32 GB
2. Scrap the R9 390...this is a work machine, go with a 980 TI, Titan, Quadro or FirePro...something with qualified and verified drivers.
3. Get a bigger SSD or another one and trash the mechanical HDD.

Let me know if you need any advice.

 

 

I cannot agree more Kkpatel87 that those would be great upgrades to my build but my budged limit is stretched far enough for me. That is why $1200 need to be my final word on the matter. 
But with the cash flowing in the future I for sure wound like to upgrade this build.

I would like to also restate questions for my previous post and if anybody could aid me here I would be grateful:

 

1)I would like to go with: Gigabyte Radeon R9 390 Gaming G1 (GV-R939G1 GAMING-8GD)

but there is also: GIGABYTE Radeon R9 390 GV-R939WF2-8GD (rev. 1.0) 8GB 512-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 ATX 

One and only difference I could find was: Core Clock Speed 1000 vs 1025, but is there more differences between them I do not see?

2) I choose 650Watt power supply, and requirement info on gigabyte site says that I need to use at least 600Watt. 

So the question is 650Watt sufficient if I wish to overclock my CPU and GPU? 

 

3)I choose my Motherboard with Z97 which utilizes its capabilities more fully. But will I use the Sata Express or M.2 connectors with my SSD or HD

SSD Samsung 850 EVO-Series read/write speed are around - 550Mb/s.

4) I also do not know which i7-4790K version to use and what are the differences. 

When I went to https://pcpartpicker.com/ and insert into their search engine i7-4790K I receive back 3 different options of the same processor so, which one is for me? 

 

If someone can answer even some part of this questions I would be truly grateful 

[kkpatel87]

-snip-

 

Understood. For 2. I would say that 650W should be ok but i would caution against overclocking if you are using it for simulations. I would do a 24 hours burn in before using it for CAD or simulation. I did 48 hours for my workstation.

[Egad]

So I don't do aero type work, but I do lots of rendering.  I would definitely delve in to which graphics cards and drivers can support your work related programs.  I work a number of programs that benefit greatly from CUDA and thus for professional reasons, even though AMD has better price to performance for gaming, everything I've build for work or my home office has been nVidia for quite some time.  I know a couple coworkers who went the AMD route and after a few months of pain, sold the AMDs and bought something with CUDA.  I have some familiarity with CATIA and I know AMD benchmarks well there, but for any other programs that lean on the GPU you might want to ask around.  

 

You may want to consider a GTX 970 or a used GTX 980 (if you can find a deal) simply for the work related programs if they benefit.  Other than that one concern, it looks great.  

[Egad]

Purely as food for thought, and note my list doesn't include your case since I couldn't find, I generated this X99 build.  It would have you at about 100 over your budget, although with 16 GB RAM.  So you could trim RAM to bring the price down slightly.  

 

You'd also have a 6 core/12 thread process vs a 4 core/8 thread processor.  If 1,200 is a very hard cap I might recommend this build with 8 GB RAM and a 4 GB 290.  Attila Total War loves itself some CPU cores and it's the one game that half the cores on my 5960X don't step outside for a smoke break when I play it.  That's the other beauty of this build, you can move to a 5960X in the future.  

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor  ($379.95 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.89 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: Asus X99-A ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($239.99 @ B&H) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($103.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($88.89 @ OutletPC) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.89 @ OutletPC) 

Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 390 8GB Video Card  ($314.98 @ Newegg) 

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($64.99 @ NCIX US) 

Total: $1267.57

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-02 11:13 EDT-0400

 

Edit, an alternative build that would get the job done under your budget including the case.  I'm partial to the higher RAM and cores given your projected workload.  I did this build with a new 380, which would keep you above 60 FPS in Attila, but you could get even better performance with an open box 4 GB R9 290 that should cost about the same or perhaps slightly more if you are open to buying open box/used off NewEgg.      

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor  ($379.95 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.89 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: EVGA Micro 2 Micro ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($212.98 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($99.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($88.89 @ OutletPC) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($49.89 @ OutletPC) 

Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 380 4GB Nitro Video Card  ($198.98 @ Newegg) 

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($64.99 @ NCIX US) 

Total: $1120.56

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-02 11:24 EDT-0400

[Dinkleberg]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($317.99 @ SuperBiiz)

CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC12DX 68.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($49.99 @ Newegg)

Motherboard: MSI Z97S SLI Krait Edition ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($115.89 @ OutletPC)

Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury White 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($83.99 @ Amazon)

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($88.89 @ OutletPC)

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.89 @ OutletPC)

Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 390 8GB PCS+ Video Card ($294.98 @ Newegg)

Case: NZXT S340 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($68.99 @ SuperBiiz)

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($96.50 @ Newegg)

Total: $1167.11

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-10-02 13:08 EDT-0400

TW games only use a couple cores, so the 4790K should do pretty well as it has 4 high-clocked cores, and it will easily handle simulation work.

[Egad]

TW games only use a couple cores, so the 4790K should do pretty well as it has 4 high-clocked cores, and it will easily handle simulation work.

 

Entirely incorrect.  Benchmark for up to six cores:

Source

 

See also this video, jump to 3:10 for TW.

 

Plus of course pretty much every professional program the OP mentioned can make use of more than four cores with HT.

[Dinkleberg]

Entirely incorrect.  Benchmark for up to six cores:

Source

 

See also this video, jump to 3:10 for TW.

 

Plus of course pretty much every professional program the OP mentioned can make use of more than four cores with HT.

Notice that the jump from 2 to 3 cores gives you nearly 11 more FPS but adding anything more yields minimal gains.

[hk29]

hi and welcome!

 

I have an Aerospace Engineering degree and i am currently working as an aerospace applications engineer so i might be able to provide some insight. On daily basis i use the following:

1. CATIA
2. Autodesk Inventor and AutoCAD
3. ANSYS
4. NASTRAN
5. NX
6. SciLab and MATLAB
7. Some other stuff that you will find out about when you get into programs and projects.

Here are my recommendations:

1. Max out RAM...minimum 32 GB
2. Scrap the R9 390...this is a work machine, go with a 980 TI, Titan, Quadro or FirePro...something with qualified and verified drivers.
3. Get a bigger SSD or another one and trash the mechanical HDD.

Let me know if you need any advice.

what no pro-e? lol.  whats the learning curve like with nx?? i heard its steep. still i would love to try that program and catia.

[kkpatel87]

-snip-

 

Lol after pro-e became Creo Parametric and some changes were made...it was a kind of abandoned in droves for professional work. In aerospace, NX and CATIA are king. NX is not too bad to pick up if you are already an expert in 3d modeling but CATIA is rough if you dont work with it everyday. To use it really well, you also need to know a bit of programming. My company primarily uses the Autodesk suite and CATIA. I use the Autodesk suite and NX for personal stuff and stuff on the side and occasionally with some odd work stuff. 

 

The biggest part isnt learning the program, but understanding the engineering behind what you are doing so the 3D model means something. So many people draw things in sketchup or something and because they dont understand the engineering, it looks like junk and means nothing. /endrant  :angry:

 

 

-snip-

 

I would recommend that you save up for a Quadro K4000 if you are serious about doing simulations...if you are going to be gaming more than working, stick with your R9 390.

[hk29]

Lol after pro-e became Creo Parametric and some changes were made...it was a kind of abandoned in droves for professional work. In aerospace, NX and CATIA are king. NX is not too bad to pick up if you are already an expert in 3d modeling but CATIA is rough if you dont work with it everyday. To use it really well, you also need to know a bit of programming. My company primarily uses the Autodesk suite and CATIA. I use the Autodesk suite and NX for personal stuff and stuff on the side and occasionally with some odd work stuff. 

 

The biggest part isnt learning the program, but understanding the engineering behind what you are doing so the 3D model means something. So many people draw things in sketchup or something and because they dont understand the engineering, it looks like junk and means nothing. /endrant  :angry:

 

 

 

I would recommend that you save up for a Quadro K4000 if you are serious about doing simulations...if you are going to be gaming more than working, stick with your R9 390.

i have been taught old school drafting and i think it helped me more than those who didnt do 2d drafting in understanding on how to use parametric programs.  i have seen many models from solidworks and creo but yet the model is useless.  isnt nx around 10k still?

[TheChris]

Thank you for the discussion on this topic. It is really great value to me and edifies me a lot. 

 

I would like to also yet again ask you to help me out with previously stated questions (without answers to them I have no chance with proceeding with my build)

I am sorry if they appear silly to you. 

 

Here they are:

 

 

I would like to also restate questions for my previous post and if anybody could aid me here I would be grateful:

 

1)I would like to go with: Gigabyte Radeon R9 390 Gaming G1 (GV-R939G1 GAMING-8GD)

but there is also: GIGABYTE Radeon R9 390 GV-R939WF2-8GD (rev. 1.0) 8GB 512-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 ATX 

One and only difference I could find was: Core Clock Speed 1000 vs 1025, but is there more differences between them I do not see?

2) I choose 650Watt power supply, and requirement info on gigabyte site says that I need to use at least 600Watt. 

So the question is 650Watt sufficient if I wish to overclock my CPU and GPU? 

 

3)I choose my Motherboard with Z97 which utilizes its capabilities more fully. But will I use the Sata Express or M.2 connectors with my SSD or HD

SSD Samsung 850 EVO-Series read/write speed are around - 550Mb/s.

4) I also do not know which i7-4790K version to use and what are the differences. 

When I went to https://pcpartpicker.com/ and insert into their search engine i7-4790K I receive back 3 different options of the same processor so, which one is for me?  

 

If someone can answer even some part of this questions I would be truly grateful  

 

 

Kkatel87 one again thank you for the answer, but yet again I would like to stress out that parts substitutes (including Quadro K4000 ) that you are recommending are truly not substitutes at all for my budget capabilities for now and in near future. 

I totally agree they are better, no question about it; but $800 for GPU is 2/3 of my total financial plan for the whole PC. So my question is: 5) Do you (or anybody else) see something better in $300-350 price range?(for example do you think gtx 970 is better for my PC destination than r9 390)

 

 

 

 

Entirely incorrect.  Benchmark for up to six cores:

Source

 

See also this video, jump to 3:10 for TW.

 

Plus of course pretty much every professional program the OP mentioned can make use of more than four cores with HT.

 

And my question to you Egad is:

6)Is it not actually shown in those videos that for many games including TW Attila price-performance benefits for having more than 4 cores with hyper-threading simply do not make sense? On max quality we gained 3 fps.

 

 

Once again I am super grateful to you all for your help with this 

[kkpatel87]

-snip-

 

Basic NX is about 15K, the full thing is about 50K or more. I have almost all the packages for my installation and its about 35K. CATIA with all modules is north of 75K...Autodesk Product Design Suite is about 9K and the best bang for your buck...Inventor is under 1K or so by itself.

 

 

-snip-

 

1. There are other small differences but in the grand scheme of things they arent much different
2. 650 should be ok
3. not quite sure what you are asking
4. i just checked and its just different codes, all of them are the same processor but packaged differently.

[TheChris]

Thank you for your answer 

 

 

 

3. not quite sure what you are asking

 

In third question I am asking if I should buy Motherboard which uses Sata Express or M.2 connectors when I will be using SSD with read/write speeds well below capabilities of those standards?

[kkpatel87]

Thank you for your answer 

 

 

In third question I am asking if I should buy Motherboard which uses Sata Express or M.2 connectors when I will be using SSD with read/write speeds well below capabilities of those standards?

 

Oh i got it, I would stick with just regular SATAIII, no need to go to anything else.

[TheChris]

Oh i got it, I would stick with just regular SATAIII, no need to go to anything else.

 

Thanks. 

And can you recommend me some generally decent motherboards which will allow overclocking with black-red colors in $130 budget?

[kkpatel87]

Thanks. 

And can you recommend me some generally decent motherboards which will allow overclocking with black-red colors in $130 budget?

 

I sorted on that criteria...you can pick based on what you think looks good.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/parts/motherboard/#s=24&C=19&c=99

[hk29]

 

Basic NX is about 15K, the full thing is about 50K or more. I have almost all the packages for my installation and its about 35K. CATIA with all modules is north of 75K...Autodesk Product Design Suite is about 9K and the best bang for your buck...Inventor is under 1K or so by itself.

 

damn those prices.  i learned on autocad 2d and 3d but havent used inventor yet.  what sucked was my junior college had the full autodesk suite.  we had sat on the license for years.  had him install it for the 25k 1200 dimension sst 3d printer.  but i guess for me solidworks is the most common in this area.

[Egad]

@TheChris

 

For a purely gaming/recreational build honestly an i5 would sufficient and you might consider the i7 purely because strategy games tend to like threads.  I personally went with a X99 motherboard because of the render work I do and the fact the professional usage justified the expense.  The sooner tasks complete, the sooner I game.  I think that in terms of future usage the X99 option makes the most sense for anyone looking at a workstation that also can game right now.  You have the most headroom in terms of growing your processor if you need it (The 8 core 5960X and a number of Xeon options) out there, plenty of PCIe lanes, etc.  Professionally speaking there is no replacement for displacement. With my 5960X I can have a pair of Linux VMs up and doing stuff, a render job running on the host OS, and still have processing power to fart around on the web, watch videos, etc.  

 

A slightly weaker graphics card now will still deliver over 60 FPS in most circumstances and do just fine for at least a year, likely longer.  You can look at the high bandwidth memory next cards that should appearing near the end of 2016 and then decide when to upgrade the GPU. 

[TheChris]

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($96.50 @ Newegg)

 

 

My final questions are:

Why PSU which I choose (Power supply: Corsair CS Series 650W Modular 80+ GOLD - CP-9020077-EU $100 http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B00GN8VZ7U) is so much more costly that the one used by Dinkleberg? Am I paying for a brand or components of Corsair PSU are much better?

And finally which one should I choose in my build? 

[Egad]

In both cases, Corsair and EVGA are repacking units made by other manufacturers.  In the case of the CS, which is kind of a midrange unit, there was a batch that went out circa Spring 2014 where they either just flat out died or had fan problems.  Corsair replaced them all and I believe the vast majority of the supplies failed in such a way they did not take other components with them.  So it seems for at least that batch, Corsair made a bad choice on whose units they repackaged.  

 

EVGA on the other hand has an excellent reputation for customer service and quality control.  Corsair is great if you stick to their high end products (I have a HXi power supply which is excellent), but they have annoying quality blips in their mid range products.  Another example was Corsair typically makes a very solid all in one water cooler, but one batch they tried to get away with sourcing a slightly cheaper pump and tubing (H100) and they had some issues.  They promptly switched back (H100i), but I tend to wait till someone else has gotten their hand on the thing, torn it down, and reviewed it before I jump on their stuff.  

 

It's not wrong to get a CS, but for your price point (if your PSU fails in a manner that fries your system you lose more money). and the fact I assume you'll have this rig doing long running jobs, stepping up in power supply is probably worth it.  Also if you have room in your budget when all is said and done, I might recommend you get a UPS (such as a sine wave CyberPower) if you are considering long running tasks.  Nothing sucks like a multi hour job failing because of a five second power flicker.