Worth doing a computer science degree?

[vitafortis]

i would have to say that she was average at math. The thing you have to know is that math isn't what makes computer science powerful, but the logic. I had to implement algorithms far above my understanding at work before, so all I had to do was follow the logic, not actually understand the equations. As long as you make the effort on logic and to understand the steps to go from A to B, or know how to find those steps, don't worry about the math as that comeS with time.

[SteveGrabowski]

i would have to say that she was average at math. The thing you have to know is that math isn't what makes computer science powerful, but the logic. I had to implement algorithms far above my understanding at work before, so all I had to do was follow the logic, not actually understand the equations. As long as you make the effort on logic and to understand the steps to go from A to B, or know how to find those steps, don't worry about the math as that comeS with time.

 

Yeah, engineering and math are two different beasts that get lumped together all the time, and CS is way more like engineering than math. I wouldn't sweat being a little weak in math, as it's not the main part of a CS degree: the main part is being an engineer and building things if software engineering is what you're interested in. It's more about organization, being meticulous with testing (no one gets things right the first time, not your genius friends either), making your systems as simple as possible, writing good documentation, working well in groups, that kind of thing. Don't get intimidated by the math. If you like the engineering part of it you'll probably pick up the math well enough as you go along. Of course if you're not a tinkerer and don't enjoy building things in your courses then you'll probably be miserable and should switch to another major with strong job prospects and earning potential.

[ZerueLX11]

Don't even worry about if people are smarter than you, do good in your classes( LEARN not memorize ) and JOIN COMPUTER SCIENCE ORGANIZATIONS. As much as grades are important so are Organizations with in your field, especially Scholarship organizations that give free money to students in STEM Majors.  Contacts are great and could land you job experience. Also going outside the classroom to learn about your Major will teach you more than what you learn in a class room. Honestly I remember more of the stuff I personally learned about in CS than in some of my colleges courses. Once you engaged yourself in all aspects of your Major "In class" and "Out of class" you will be so much more comfortable even when you don't know about something about your Major.    

 

 

Sign up for..

 

CS Student Research

CS Organizations( that do actual work )

CS Scholarships

 

I made a considerable amount of money doing student research, and I used that experience to apply to a STEM scholarship which pretty much pays for %90 of my tuition. Also the Scholarship foundation pretty much has me interview with companies to get potential paid internships.  

 

So far I've worked with Farmers Insurance and for this summer CBS.  Now I have job experience to put on a resume

 

Am I the best CS, programmer, math person? Hell no lol( Started programming freshman year  , but I am dedicated to learning about these things. And I had no experience going into my internships

 

Don't overwhelm yourself, pick a few orgs to be dedicated to and go from there. Good luck!

[Cs342]

Yeah, engineering and math are two different beasts that get lumped together all the time, and CS is way more like engineering than math. I wouldn't sweat being a little weak in math, as it's not the main part of a CS degree: the main part is being an engineer and building things if software engineering is what you're interested in. It's more about organization, being meticulous with testing (no one gets things right the first time, not your genius friends either), making your systems as simple as possible, writing good documentation, working well in groups, that kind of thing. Don't get intimidated by the math. If you like the engineering part of it you'll probably pick up the math well enough as you go along. Of course if you're not a tinkerer and don't enjoy building things in your courses then you'll probably be miserable and should switch to another major with strong job prospects and earning potential.

Do you have an example of such a major? Im pretty interested in CS but I dont want to wait till junior year to find out that it's too hard for me and I wont be able to graduate on time.

[Cs342]

Don't even worry about if people are smarter than you, do good in your classes( LEARN not memorize ) and JOIN COMPUTER SCIENCE ORGANIZATIONS. As much as grades are important so are Organizations with in your field, especially Scholarship organizations that give free money to students in STEM Majors.  Contacts are great and could land you job experience. Also going outside the classroom to learn about your Major will teach you more than what you learn in a class room. Honestly I remember more of the stuff I personally learned about in CS than in some of my colleges courses. Once you engaged yourself in all aspects of your Major "In class" and "Out of class" you will be so much more comfortable even when you don't know about something about your Major.    

 

 

Sign up for..

 

CS Student Research

CS Organizations( that do actual work )

CS Scholarships

 

I made some considerable amount of money doing student research, and I used that to apply to a STEM scholarship which pretty much pays for %90 of my tuition. Also the Scholarship foundation pretty much has me interview with companies to get potential paid internships.  

 

So far I've worked with Farmers Insurance and for this summer CBS.  Now I have job experience to put on a resume

 

Am I the best CS, programmer, math person? Hell no lol( Started programming freshman year  , but I am dedicated to learning about these things. And I had no experience going into my internships

 

Don't overwhelm yourself, pick a few to be dedicated to and go from there. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice What did you do during your internships if you have no experience? Just curious

[SteveGrabowski]

Do you have an example of such a major? Im pretty interested in CS but I dont want to wait till junior year to find out that it's too hard for me and I wont be able to graduate on time.

 

If you're interested in CS then do CS. You'll find a way if you like it.

[Cs342]

If you're interested in CS then do CS. You'll find a way if you like it.

Yeah Im planning on doing it but I was just curious

[SteveGrabowski]

Yeah Im planning on doing it but I was just curious

 

CS is really fun, you have so many ways you can go with it. You can concentrate in software engineering and do user interfaces, you can concentrate in hardware and do lots of cool stuff with circuits, signals, and architecture, you can do graphics, you can study a lot of AI, you can study theory with lots of algorithms, graph theory, automata, etc. CS offers a lot of different avenues to pursue based on what you find out you enjoy most and are best at. It's a really versatile major.

[ZerueLX11]

Thanks for the advice What did you do during your internships if you have no experience? Just curious

 

 

At Farmers I was a  Web Analyst. I looked through an old website and made a report/presentation to the board of directors about why it shouldn't look like something from 2005 and that it should be better organized.

 

I am about to start at CBS and they will have me doing lots of Networking stuff with fibre optics ,routers, switches, and installing a whole new Wi Fi system in their building.

 

 

Actual jobs are way different from the class room, however, both are needed to some degree  

[vitafortis]

If you're worried about your career choice, you can spend the first year or two doing electives and general education courses, with a class here and there in certain majors. This way you don't "waste" your time in one field, and still learn programming either way. One of the biggest trends in the workplace is having a lot of different career fields emphasizing programming to some degree, whether it be to simplify work, fix systems, update things, etc. 

 

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to go into details about the different kinds of fields and careers I've seen programming be emphasized in. And, as stated previously, focus less on the other students, and focus on what you WANT to do, not what makes you money. I've had classmates that tried CS/Comp Engineering because it "made a lot of money" and ended up failing, as did the students that did it because they thought it was easy or "had no choice". In the end, doing what makes you happy and comfortable is worth all the effort you put into it, whether or not you decide to change careers later down the road.

[Matduss]

I am currently studying in computer sciences too. Programming is not easy, I'm not much of a great programmer now (especially with JavaScript) and not much of a math guy (I failed differential calculus) but I'm getting there. You shouldn't be ashamed to ask for help from other students, I'm sure they will happy to help. Just make sure that you understand what they are doing though. Don't let the others discourage you with there high grades either, with some practice you will get to their level one day. Good luck with your studies!

[vitafortis]

I am currently studying in computer sciences too. Programming is not easy, I'm not much of a great programmer now (especially with JavaScript) and not much of a math guy (I failed differential calculus) but I'm getting there. You shouldn't be ashamed to ask for help from other students, I'm sure they will happy to help. Just make sure that you understand what they are doing though. Don't let the others discourage you with there high grades either, with some practice you will get to their level one day. Good luck with your studies!

 

The biggest thing that this post points out, is ask for help. If this forum alone shows anything, most programmers and tech people in general love to help others out, it's not a "Boys Club" type atmosphere where it's elitist and no helping allowed. Just be humble/modest and admit you need help (if/when), and I guarantee you'll get help. There's forums/sites devoted to getting help, such as stack exchange or stack overflow.

[Cs342]

If you're worried about your career choice, you can spend the first year or two doing electives and general education courses, with a class here and there in certain majors. This way you don't "waste" your time in one field, and still learn programming either way. One of the biggest trends in the workplace is having a lot of different career fields emphasizing programming to some degree, whether it be to simplify work, fix systems, update things, etc. 

 

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to go into details about the different kinds of fields and careers I've seen programming be emphasized in. And, as stated previously, focus less on the other students, and focus on what you WANT to do, not what makes you money. I've had classmates that tried CS/Comp Engineering because it "made a lot of money" and ended up failing, as did the students that did it because they thought it was easy or "had no choice". In the end, doing what makes you happy and comfortable is worth all the effort you put into it, whether or not you decide to change careers later down the road.

I've heard a lot of horror stories about college students getting engineering degrees and then finding themselves stuck in some boring cubicle job that has little or nothing to do with their subject. I've also heard that engineers are underpaid/not respected as much as other members of a company. Is this true?

[Misanthrope]

It's not about competition. Do what you want to do, maybe learn from them. 

 

Assuming some of them live local to him and will be well, competing, for the same jobs yes it is about competition.

 

That being said however, I wouldn't let it get to me: A lot of people can be brilliant at coding and math and such, and still end up with a crappy job or unemployed. It takes a lot more to get on a good career path and if you're good at only coding you'll spend your life doing just that: coding for someone, making little money in the process. If you however actually have marketable skills like being more social and a strong leader you'll be their project manager instead of just another gear in the machine.

[Cs342]

Assuming some of them live local to him and will be well, competing, for the same jobs yes it is about competition.

 

That being said however, I wouldn't let it get to me: A lot of people can be brilliant at coding and math and such, and still end up with a crappy job or unemployed. It takes a lot more to get on a good career path and if you're good at only coding you'll spend your life doing just that: coding for someone, making little money in the process. If you however actually have marketable skills like being more social and a strong leader you'll be their project manager instead of just another gear in the machine.

Those are good points. Do you recommend I major in business and minor in computer science? Also, I am an international student studying in the US. Will it be much harder for me to compete for jobs in the states? I speak perfect English so that's not an issue for me.

[Misanthrope]

Those are good points. Do you recommend I major in business and minor in computer science? Also, I am an international student studying in the US. Will it be much harder for me to compete for jobs in the states? I speak perfect English so that's not an issue for me.

 

Depends on what you like better, I say major computer science and minor in business or something among those lines, have both skills it will help. As for jobs in the states I coudn't tell you I never lived there myself.

[Cs342]

Depends on what you like better, I say major computer science and minor in business or something among those lines, have both skills it will help. As for jobs in the states I coudn't tell you I never lived there myself.

Is a CS degree necessary though? I heard a lot of companies prefer self-taught programmers.

[blackadder]

Those are good points. Do you recommend I major in business and minor in computer science? Also, I am an international student studying in the US. Will it be much harder for me to compete for jobs in the states? I speak perfect English so that's not an issue for me.

do business as a minor, its easier. Dont sell yourself short. It doesn't matter much where you come from in america not for the jobs you will be looking for. People skills matter as much as brains. People will come to you more if you are nice and help before going to some dickhead. How you act and who you are is more important long term than what you know. Just do what you love. If it goes right you work hard all day and go to bed feeling exhausted and victorious if you dont love what you do you just go to bed exhausted and wake up do it all over.

[Cs342]

do business as a minor, its easier. Dont sell yourself short. It doesn't matter much where you come from in america not for the jobs you will be looking for. People skills matter as much as brains. People will come to you more if you are nice and help before going to some dickhead. How you act and who you are is more important long term than what you know. Just do what you love. If it goes right you work hard all day and go to bed feeling exhausted and victorious if you dont love what you do you just go to bed exhausted and wake up do it all over.

What do you mean it's easier? Is business harder than computer science?

[Misanthrope]

Is a CS degree necessary though? I heard a lot of companies prefer self-taught programmers.

 

Some do, but not really. And mind you I can only speak for my local job market but it is close enough elsewhere. The truth of the matter is that most of the jobs available out there ask for a generic computer major of any kind but care more about your practical skills: What languages can you code in, what software packages you're familiar with, what kind of servers you know how to admin, what can of databases you can maintain or code queries for, etc. There's some jobs like Business Intelligence that are so relatively new that they don't really care what major even if it's not computer related: They ask for someone with education in Math, any kind of engineering, any kind of business administration degree, so long as you can do queries, data cubes, all kinds of wizardry in Excel and Crystal Reports, etc. 

The truth is that by the time you're done with your school most of the specific languages you'll learn will be deprecated or on they way out. Best thing you can do to get ahead is start getting experience as soon as you can so look into interships into whatever area interests you the most, like right now not down the line when it's mandatory. A guy who can already code his own C# stuff and has been working with it for a year is worth a lot more than a guy who has a Ph.D in computer science but never worked a day on his life doing actual IT work

[Misanthrope]

What do you mean it's easier? Is business harder than computer science?

 

It's not, but it can be. Some of the administration and accounting stuff I've found to be brutally boring and hard to make myself care about. But it's really something you have to try for yourself

[Cs342]

Some do, but not really. And mind you I can only speak for my local job market but it is close enough elsewhere. The truth of the matter is that most of the jobs available out there ask for a generic computer major of any kind but care more about your practical skills: What languages can you code in, what software packages you're familiar with, what kind of servers you know how to admin, what can of databases you can maintain or code queries for, etc. There's some jobs like Business Intelligence that are so relatively new that they don't really care what major even if it's not computer related: They ask for someone with education in Math, any kind of engineering, any kind of business administration degree, so long as you can do queries, data cubes, all kinds of wizardry in Excel and Crystal Reports, etc. 

The truth is that by the time you're done with your school most of the specific languages you'll learn will be deprecated or on they way out. Best thing you can do to get ahead is start getting experience as soon as you can so look into interships into whatever area interests you the most, like right now not down the line when it's mandatory. A guy who can already code his own C# stuff and has been working with it for a year is worth a lot more than a guy who has a Ph.D in computer science but never worked a day on his life doing actual IT work

Does your minor even matter to employers then? 

[Cs342]

It's not, but it can be. Some of the administration and accounting stuff I've found to be brutally boring and hard to make myself care about. But it's really something you have to try for yourself

Even more boring than Calc 3?

[blackadder]

What do you mean it's easier? Is business harder than computer science?

i really shouldn't of said that. to most people cs is going to the harder major, if you can do it, please do. less than 5% of the world has a four year degree in a stem major, we are very much in "need". if your heart is in cs go for it.  you are the only one that knows what you can and can't do. whatever you decide your'e right.  your grades won't matter in 5 years or less after you graduate, really after the first job. don't worry so much, a lot of this is out of your hands.  

[Misanthrope]

Does your minor even matter to employers then? 

 

Maybe to some but it depends. There's a lot of assholes in HR that insists on you having a Bachelor's degree and would pass on even someone like Barnacules if they say his resume of a decade coding for Microsoft if he doesn't has a Bachelor's Degree in computer science. To them it will matter a lot

 

I think that is becoming more and more rare in the States (though don't quote me on that) but here on Mexico that's certainly still a reality, some people are so fucking stupid about it they want you to have a Bachelor's degree on a specific (and obviously prestigious) specific University before they can even consider you. However that's really not the kind of place you wanna be working for anyway, unless you want to become a cut throat social shark and survive on those kind of dysfunctional business environments.