emulating ps4 and Xbox one games

[qwertywarrior]

i was watching the live stream and linus commented saying

"ill be floored if we don't have xbox one ps4 emulators  very quickly this time around because its soo similar"

 

this is very untrue

 

the (first) Xbox with x86 a celeron cpu with a nvidia gpu  i wont go in detail about the specs but

 

its is almost impossible to emulate the (first) Xbox  to this day

 

here is a quote

 

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

"Xbox is just like a PC, it's easy to emulate!"

Yes, we've all heard this silly and pointless argument a million times and it usually ends in the same, and rather ignorant conclusion (or should I say assumption) that just because the Xbox is PC similar, it's hardware should be relatively easy to emulate. That's a very wrong frame of mind. How hard can it be? Very. Xbox's hardware is very complex and still poorly documented to this day. This requires some explanation.

1. Is a PC easy to emulate? Well, I wouldn't say so myself. Take a look at the source code from bochs. A lot of source code/work isn't it?

2. Emulating an x86 CPU is a lot harder than it sounds. I don't know where this mindless assumption comes from. Yes, there's loads of documentation on how the x86 processor works, but that doesn't exactly make it easy. First of all, the x86 instruction set is M-A-S-S-I-V-E! There can be at least 20 different versions of one instruction (i.e. There are many different versions of the MOV instruction, as well as INC, DEC, ADD, SUB, SHR, SHL, AND, OR, XOR etc.) and it takes time to implement them all. Of course, that's not exactly difficult. The real problem is that any modern x86 processor including the Pentium III can execute multiple instructions at once. So it's not like emulating a Z80 doing one instruction at a time. The actual algorithm and how x86 does this is undocumented and still unknown. In short, the Xbox's CPU can be emulated, but not accurately.

3. Emulating any hardware by NVIDIA is not a walk in the park! The Xbox's GPU, the NV2A is often assumed just a GeForce 3. It's not! It's similar but not identical. It has some GeForce 4 capabilities too, so it's more of a cross between an NV20 and NV25. This is by no means easy to emulate either. NVIDIA's GPUs have very large register sets and afaik not even half of them have been discovered, and a large portion of known registers have unknown purposes. There is little to no documentation on how NVIDIA GPUs work. The best thing to do is to look at similar GPUs such as RIVA, TNT, and older GeForce cards. Some registers are similar, but not identical. The best place to look for information is in open source drivers available on the net. Adding to the dificulty is that no one has ever discovered how pixel shaders work on NV2x cards, vertex shaders yes though. The Xbox GPU also has exclusive registers that are not found in other GeForce cards. Information on the NV2A's GPU registers are just now beginning to be discovered a few months ago. And yet, there's still a long way to go. The GeForce 3 series is the most mysterious of all NVIDIA GPUs (G7x and G8x aside) and the NV2A is alot worse. "But can't you just directly execute the NV2A instructions on another NVIDIA card?". No, I get alot of questions concerning this, and it is impossible. It's MMIO addresses are different and the exclusive registers must be emulated. Plus, in windows, we don't have ring 0 access anyway, so you all can scratch that idea now. Then comes the NForce 2 chipset. This is where it get easier. The NVIDIA MCPX is the control center for things such as audio, USB for input, Network adapters, PCI, AGP, etc. These things are not really that difficult to emulate IMO except for the audio.

4. The Audio system is rather complex. Xbox's audio consists of at least 4 DSPs, and audio codec (AC '97) and an NVIDIA SoundStorm APU. The DSPs shouldn't be a problem (just figuring out what they all are is) nor should the AC '97 but the NVIDIA SoundStorm APU is the really difficult part. So far I haven't found any information on this thing, but right now, it's relevance is low.

5. The Xbox BIOS isn't fully understood. The basic execution process of the BIOS is understood, but details on the process are at a loss. What we do know gives us hints, but before the BIOS can be emulated, we'll need a better understanding of the Xbox hardware layout because the BIOS does some unknown hardware initialization at boot time and writes to the hardware directly without using any XDK stuff. It will take some time, and effort, but I'll eventually get it working.

6. Video Encoder "Hell". Instead of using a RAMDAC for video output, the Xbox uses a Video Encoder. What makes this suck a pain? Microsoft sought the need to change the video encoder every other Xbox version (there are seven in all, 1.0 - 1.6). Why, I dunno, it's a Microsoft thing, they always tend to try to "fix" things that aren't broken >.> AFAIK, there are at least 3 different Video Encoders used: Conexant CX25871, Focus FS454, and Xcalibur. For more information in Xbox video encoders, click here. Emulating all three video encoders is only less than half the battle, the real problem is that BIOSes can be specifically tied to a specific encoder depending on it's version (don't quote me on this though). Like PS2, every Xbox model revision has a updated BIOS and has different expectations. This is a potential problem, but not exactly major.

Basically, I'm trying to get this "Xbox should be easy to emulate because it's just like a PC" crap out of your heads. I'm sure that most of you will disagree with me on this, but for these reasons and more, on a low level, Xbox is harder to emulate than PS2.

^ The exception to that above is that the NV2A is much better documented now, but not fully. There's an open source library for the OpenXDK called pbKit. It interfaces directly with the hardware to fully expose it's potential. This is what Microsoft should have done all along (or at least wrote a low-level OpenGL implementation).

 

 

we can finally put this issue to rest

it will be near impossible to emulate x86 consoles

the Xbox one has what 3 OSes running simultaneously

[Godlygamer23]

Still, the Xbox One and PS4 are only using off the shelf stuff pretty much. Eight core FX chip paired with some kind of APU GPU.

[joelthezombie15]

Ya but that was then, we are further advanced now, there is more than likely someone who will do it.

[naca1227]

We will probably be able to. I don't think it will be worth the time, thought Ryse of Rome (or whatever it's called) looks fucking cool

[qwertywarrior]

joelthezombie15, on 15 Jun 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Ya but that was then, we are further advanced now, there is more than likely someone who will do it.

the first xbox doesn't have a proper emulator to this day

there is an xbox emulator out there specifically made for playing HALO 1 and its still super buggy

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/xeon.html

the latest XBOX emulator was updated in 2011

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/cxbx.html

5 playable games list updated in 2012

http://forums.ngemu.com/showthread.php?t=95026

its not really an emulator its kinda like a port

still hard to do anything with it

[Godlygamer23]

What's more complicated? Ps2 or Xbox? And we have emulators for the PS2.

[qwertywarrior]

What's more complicated? Ps2 or Xbox? And we have emulators for the PS2.

xbox is extremely complicated

ps2 was RISC so it wasnt much of a problem and the GPU was simple not like the nvidia gpu on the xbox

look at the wii

the dolphin emulator ran most wii games when it supported it

played skyward Zelda at 1080p with no problems for me

the only good thing i see with the future of consoles is that it will be easier to port games to PCs

[Godlygamer23]

Xbox vs Xbox 360? Link removed

[qwertywarrior]

Xbox vs Xbox 360? Xbox 360 emulators exist like this one.

thats a fake

its a virus

all legit emulators are posted on this site

http://www.emulator-zone.com/

the latest emulator to this date is a ps3 emulator made to run homebrew software for jailbroken PS3s

also an xbox 360 is RISC so we have a chance to see a emualtor in the future but its still complicated ( you still have to deal with audio which is hell etc)

and i really have no idea how programmers will deal with the ps3's cell processor

we might see emulators in a decade or so :)

[Godlygamer23]

thats a fake

its a virus

You know it's a virus because?

[qwertywarrior]

You know it's a virus because?

my idiot cousin downloaded it .....

EDIT : that particular one is a scam

and a simple google search will tell u that most of these websites are scams

http://forums.emulator-zone.com/showthread.php?t=20476

be careful

SCAM

[Godlygamer23]

I've scanned the file multiple times with both Avast and Malwarebytes. I also extracted them, and did the same thing. Nothing came up - however, it does seem to not be legit anyways.

[Godlygamer23]

I also ran it inside a sandbox and nothing malicious occurred.

[qwertywarrior]

I also ran it inside a sandbox and nothing malicious occurred.

as i said that particular one is a scam

 

VirusTotal for the most part does not seem to return anything disturbing about the file. It does not seem to contain a blatant virus or other malware, at least not already known one.

It does however seem to contain very puzzling contents. The "extra.dat" folder for example seems to contain several BIOS files, including a "Xbox 360 BIOS", but all of them contain the string "Copyright Sony Corporation" (and the other files are named after PS2 models for that matter).

The "Plugins" folder seems to contain PCSX2 plugins. In fact now that I compare the PCSX2 distribution with this so-called Xbox 360 emulator, the structure is almost identical.

I think the real "scam" here is that to download the seemingly necessary BIOS file (eventhough the emulator package would appear to contain it already in the wrong folder) you need to follow their twitter/like their FB accounts. They are maybe doing this so that they can resell those accounts for profit later on, or whatever.

 

[Godlygamer23]

Yup. When I went to "download" the BIOS files(supposedly), it asked to disable some stuff protecting me...red flag right there.

[naca1227]

Emulators in general are a bit redundant when it comes to AAA games, unless you want to play an exclusive. I mean is downloading some shoddy PS2 emulator so you can play Gran Turismo 2 really worth it?

[qwertywarrior]

Emulators in general are a bit redundant when it comes to AAA games, unless you want to play an exclusive. I mean is downloading some shoddy PS2 emulator so you can play Gran Turismo 2 really worth it?

speak for your self i still play GT3 :)

my older cousin won second in the sony GT3 championship back in the day

(ill post a pic of the cup ) :)

PCSX2 emulator is amazing and still being updated to this day

the ps2 has 3500+ games in its library

MOST of which arnt on PC

its the most sold console in the world

the games of that era were amazing

Top ps3/xbox360 games on IGN etc are also made for PC so its not really an issue for us when the new consoles are released

i was just saying the x86 consoles will be near impossible to emulate

the hardware isnt simple anymore

[sonarctica]

The Xbox One games are hardware locked, did anyone see the picture where in one of the booths at E3 a "Xbox One" was running on Windows and had a GTX 700 series card in it. This can only mean that they lock it to the console so they can sell them more.

[qwertywarrior]

The Xbox One games are hardware locked, did anyone see the picture where in one of the booths at E3 a "Xbox One" was running on Windows and had a GTX 700 series card in it. This can only mean that they lock it to the console so they can sell them more.

 

what do u mean hardware locked ?

 

an xbox one console running a 700 GTX card ??

 

im a bit lost

i heard linus talking about this can u tell me what happened exactly

 

when bf4 was being played at E3

it was 64 players ON pc playing it

some were using controllers

not sure why people kept saying the xbox was emulated

[sonarctica]

what do u mean hardware locked ?

 

an xbox one console running a 700 GTX card ??

 

im a bit lost

i heard linus talking about this can u tell me what happened exactly

 

when bf4 was being played at E3

it was 64 players ON pc playing it

some were using controllers

not sure why people kept saying the xbox was emulated

 

On the news section there was a article where someone took a picture of someone opening one of the Xbox One booth cabinets and it was a PC running on windows (monitor was on windows desktop) so basically they don't have a working Xbox One yet, they lie about the quality they games are running at if they were using a GTX 700 series GPU and finally the games ran on Windows, which means they would work perfectly fine but they are going to make them exclusive by locking them to the console to sell more of them.

 

[qwertywarrior]

On the news section there was a article where someone took a picture of someone opening one of the Xbox One booth cabinets and it was a PC running on windows (monitor was on windows desktop) so basically they don't have a working Xbox One yet, they lie about the quality they games are running at if they were using a GTX 700 series GPU and finally the games ran on Windows, which means they would work perfectly fine but they are going to make them exclusive by locking them to the console to sell more of them.

 

so what ur saying is that DICE was showing a windows version  of BF4....

i guess they didnt have time to perfect the xbox version

i saw it happen before with other companies

but its always funny when it happens :D

 

 

 

if it was an console exclusive i would understand what you mean but it will be released on PC

 

heck most of the games that run on the xbox can be made of PC easily

 

whats ur point ? :huh:

it the same excuse apple has ( OSX MUST ONLY RUN ON MACS !! )

[sonarctica]

so what ur saying is that DICE was showing a windows version  of BF4....

i guess they didnt have time to perfect the xbox version

i saw it happen before with other companies

 

 

 

if it was an console exclusive i would understand what you mean but it will be released on PC

 

heck most of the games that run on the xbox can be made of PC easily

 

whats ur point ? :huh:

it the same excuse apple has ( OSX MUST ONLY RUN ON MACS !! )

The Xbox One exclusives were running on Windows, that was my point lol

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

[qwertywarrior]

The Xbox One exclusives were running on Windows, that was my point lol

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

yeah i understand it was a fail :P

but BF4 isnt an xbox one exclusive ....

 

we can only  confirm that BF4 was being played on a PC

[Matsy]

yeah i understand it was a fail :P

but BF4 wasnt an xbox one exclusive ....

 

Yes that is ONE GAME, the rest of the ones WHICH ARE EXCLUSIVES, where running on a PC, but are EXCLUSIVES to the xbox.

So they are locking the games to XBOX when they can easily be ran on PC's, for no other reason than to make more money for xbox.

The exclusives shown, will not look anywhere near that good when you buy the game for your console, its all a big lie.

[qwertywarrior]

Yes that is ONE GAME, the rest of the ones WHICH ARE EXCLUSIVES, where running on a PC, but are EXCLUSIVES to the xbox.

So they are locking the games to XBOX when they can easily be ran on PC's, for no other reason than to make more money for xbox.

The exclusives shown, will not look anywhere near that good when you buy the game for your console, its all a big lie.

 

we cant be 100% sure that the exclusives were running on a pc

we only know that BF4 was running on a pc

if im wrong here please correct me