Headphones + DAC/AMP for mixed genre of music.

[BubbleTrouble]

First I apologize as there were already so many threads about this, but I don't know if people were listening to such genres.

 

So lately I've been thinking of buying headphones and DAC/AMP to listen to some really good quality headphones.

 

For the genres I listen to:

Let's say everything that sounds good for my ears, and that can be anything.

Metal, rock, hardstyle, also vocaloids, dubstep, pop, rap.

 

So I'm going to give links to some type of songs I listen to, all of them are on my HDD with 320kbps as I know youtube screws quality a little.

 

 

 

Song

 

 

As you can see, it's all type of songs, so I'm wondering if there are headphones that would be awesome for all type of music.

I read that a lot of you are recommending HD 558, would that be a good choice to go with this kind of music? I can get them for 135€ at my place.

 

And then what would be a good DAC/AMP to go with them? I'd probably want to keep it cheap but good, as I have z97 motherboard with ALC 887 codec.

 

Till now I had Siberia v2, as I did game but not so much anymore and it's mostly MMORPGs so I just run these songs in background.

 

I'd be buying them from Germany and around 150€ for Hedphones and 80€ for dac/amp I suppose.

[DigitalHermit]

Budget and location?

[BubbleTrouble]

Budget and location?

Oh yes I forgot to include that, I'm sorry.

I'd be buying them from Germany and around 150€ for Hedphones and 80€ for dac/amp I suppose.

[DigitalHermit]

Oh yes I forgot to include that, I'm sorry.

I'd be buying them from Germany and around 150€ for Hedphones and 80€ for dac/amp I suppose.

 

I've got nothing on me, but I usually recommend the ATH-M50 and Superlux HD660 as they have a pretty balanced sound signature...

[MayflowerElectronics]

DT 880's and 990's as for the amp what motherboard do you have? The 558's have no bass so you probably won't like them.

[ShearMe]

Hard to tell what OP would like best - did he like the V2's, or would he want something different sounding?

[BubbleTrouble]

I did like V2s. I have Z97P-D3 motherboard so without any amp.

 

I'd like to hear that nice sound of guitar and drums, so I guess DT 990 would be the way to go? Then I would really need a DAC/AMP, what do you people think of Fiio E10K?

[Ch!Kn]

I haven't read the other posts, but I would look into m50's or beyerdynamic custom one pros.

Dac's are a gimmick (imho), for around 100usd you're looking at a schitt modi http://schiit.com/products/modi this is the last dac you will ever need nothing is gonna sound better (how hard is it to convert an audio signal from digital to analog, like really) and I would advise against further research as you will either come to my conclusion or get obsessed with wasting your money on stuff that isnt going to improve your audio signal.

 

If you can't get the schitt modi, then i would recommend you look into basically any 100$ audio interface designed for music production. They are all high grade parts and tend to not contain any of the bs that comes with "audiophile grade" equipment. I would personally recommend the steinberg ci1 as it produces a clean neutral sound (good for many genres) and is readily available worldwide (google it).

 

Sidenote: personally wouldent bother with fiio. They make good dacs, but from what i have read they are considered basically "at least I have a dac" products and have been replaced by newer alternatives (look up schitt audio if you can).

[Lays]

I haven't read the other posts, but I would look into m50's or beyerdynamic custom one pros.

Dac's are a gimmick (imho), for around 100usd you're looking at a schitt modi http://schiit.com/products/modi this is the last dac you will ever need nothing is gonna sound better (how hard is it to convert an audio signal from digital to analog, like really) and I would advise against further research as you will either come to my conclusion or get obsessed with wasting your money on stuff that isnt going to improve your audio signal.

 

If you can't get the schitt modi, then i would recommend you look into basically any 100$ audio interface designed for music production. They are all high grade parts and tend to not contain any of the bs that comes with "audiophile grade" equipment. I would personally recommend the steinberg ci1 as it produces a clean neutral sound (good for many genres) and is readily available worldwide (google it).

 

Sidenote: personally wouldent bother with fiio. They make good dacs, but from what i have read they are considered basically "at least I have a dac" products and have been replaced by newer alternatives (look up schitt audio if you can).

 

 

He's going to need an amplifier too.. You can't just use a DAC only to power headphones, as the only thing a DAC does is conver the signal, you then need something to amplify the signal to power the headphones.

 

He mentioned he only had 80 euro for dac+amp and 150 euro for headphones, so a modi+magni is well out of the question.

[creatip123]

I haven't read the other posts, but I would look into m50's or beyerdynamic custom one pros.

Dac's are a gimmick (imho), for around 100usd you're looking at a schitt modi http://schiit.com/products/modi this is the last dac you will ever need nothing is gonna sound better (how hard is it to convert an audio signal from digital to analog, like really) and I would advise against further research as you will either come to my conclusion or get obsessed with wasting your money on stuff that isnt going to improve your audio signal.

 

If you can't get the schitt modi, then i would recommend you look into basically any 100$ audio interface designed for music production. They are all high grade parts and tend to not contain any of the bs that comes with "audiophile grade" equipment. I would personally recommend the steinberg ci1 as it produces a clean neutral sound (good for many genres) and is readily available worldwide (google it).

 

Sidenote: personally wouldent bother with fiio. They make good dacs, but from what i have read they are considered basically "at least I have a dac" products and have been replaced by newer alternatives (look up schitt audio if you can).

 

You do know what you're saying, right? A modi on its own is unusable with headphones. The modi only output audio signal on line level, not enough to drive a headphone properly. 

 

Oh, and by the way, the sentence 'DACs are gimmicks' would place the modi, even an onboard audio at that category, the 'gimmick' category, because they're all DACs.

 

And the way you were implying, about DACs, an onboard would be fine then, no need to get something like a modi, because 'how hard is it to convert an audio signal from digital to analog, like really'

[GamerDude]

One thing I've learned recent about external DAC/AMP's, if you can find find one within budget, best to try it on for size before deciding. If that's not possible, listen to (but NOT necessarily heed) advice given and make up your own mind. Don't let others push you into something you're not sure of, your ears are the best judge. BTW, that budget of 80 Euros for DAC/AMP is not enough. I'd recently gone into audio appreciation as well, I went overboard and spent 800USD on a HD800 and 500 for a DAC/AMP (was criticized by a member here for going with that DAC/AMP) but I find myself spending and losing hours listening to music with that combo on my rigs and CD player. In fact, liked that DAC/AMP so much, I'm making arrangements to get a 2nd unit.....and perhaps a pair of planar headphones. If you can hang on to your V2 for now, save up for a more substantial upgrade, your ears would thank you for it. 

[Ch!Kn]

He's going to need an amplifier too.. You can't just use a DAC only to power headphones, as the only thing a DAC does is conver the signal, you then need something to amplify the signal to power the headphones.

 

He mentioned he only had 80 euro for dac+amp and 150 euro for headphones, so a modi+magni is well out of the question.

Do any research on the m50, and you'll find out that there is definitly little to gain from using an amp with the m50s... (as in they sound just fine out of an iphone) I also happen to be able to validate this with m50s coming out of my galaxy s vs a cmoy I made once...

 

Both are around 30omhz again so i fail to see why you would want an amp... spend the 80euro on a modi and never look back or get a crappy dac/amp combo and upgrade both of them later.

 

Headphone amps were originally intended for headphones that has such a large power demand that simply playing them out of the source would fail to yeild listenable signal levels. Buying an 80euro amp/dac combo hardly seems worth it when your headphones themselves cost only 150euro..

 

Actually now that I think of it the op should just buy some Akg k550's or senheiser momentums... Both of those would be just fine without a dac/amp and would sound much better than any 150euro plus 80euro combo. 

If you buy those you will be fine without an amp/dac combo and you can always upgrade later if it suits you

[Ch!Kn]

You do know what you're saying, right? A modi on its own is unusable with headphones. The modi only output audio signal on line level, not enough to drive a headphone properly. 

 

Oh, and by the way, the sentence 'DACs are gimmicks' would place the modi, even an onboard audio at that category, the 'gimmick' category, because they're all DACs.

 

And the way you were implying, about DACs, an onboard would be fine then, no need to get something like a modi, because 'how hard is it to convert an audio signal from digital to analog, like really'

Except that onboard dacs tend to have lots of interference from outside sources... And yes i personally think the modi is a gimmick... but it's the highest quality dac you can find under 100$ and a line level signal is just fine for 30omhz headphones... I'm not quite sure what you think you are talking about as I have used dacs without amps before on low impedence headphones and had no problems whatsoever...  You might even not want an amp because if you don't need it you are just introducing more distortion into the signal.

 

I don't mean to be rude but you were just nitpicking me, no need to be butthurt but you know exactly what I mean by dacs are gimmicks... I never said they were useless, i was implying that they are no longer high end products... They have become cheap to manufacture such as the technology behind mp3 players. as an example, a basic mp3 player used to cost 1000$ now you can get a sansa clip with a 32gb memory card for under 50$.

 

You might happen to notice in my other post i recommended just buying a low impedience 230euro ish low impedance headphone instead of an amp/dac combo with the headphone and upgrading the amp/dac later if he wanted to as a better headphone is far superior to a bad headphone and an amp/dac.

 

Sidenote: forgot to mention that 90% of the time the line level signal is going to be (low level) boosted strait from the source if you are using a pc and pretty much any consumer grade audio player (phones for example) unless you are using a line out. Usb, Coaxial, And optical do not count as a internal amp bypass.

[creatip123]

Except that onboard dacs tend to have lots of interference from outside sources... And yes i personally think the modi is a gimmick... but it's the highest quality dac you can find under 100$ and a line level signal is just fine for 30omhz headphones... I'm not quite sure what you think you are talking about as I have used dacs without amps before on low impedence headphones and had no problems whatsoever...  You might even not want an amp because if you don't need it you are just introducing more distortion into the signal.

 

I don't mean to be rude but you were just nitpicking me, no need to be butthurt but you know exactly what I mean by dacs are gimmicks... I never said they were useless, i was implying that they are no longer high end products... They have become cheap to manufacture such as the technology behind mp3 players. as an example, a basic mp3 player used to cost 1000$ now you can get a sansa clip with a 32gb memory card for under 50$.

 

You might happen to notice in my other post i recommended just buying a low impedience 230euro ish low impedance headphone instead of an amp/dac combo with the headphone and upgrading the amp/dac later if he wanted to as a better headphone is far superior to a bad headphone and an amp/dac.

 

Sidenote: forgot to mention that 90% of the time the line level signal is going to be (low level) boosted strait from the source if you are using a pc and pretty much any consumer grade audio player (phones for example) unless you are using a line out. Usb, Coaxial, And optical do not count as a internal amp bypass.

 

Ah you don't get it? What I was saying, pick an opinion, and stick with it. If you think 'the DAC used plays an important part in the sound', then you wouldn't say 'all DACs are gimmick'. If you think 'all DACs are pretty much the same anyway', then there's no sense in buying an external DAC, unless the onboard is faulty, with statics, noises, hisses, etc. Even if, for argument's sake, just say the onboard is unusable, still there's certainly no sense in choosing a $100 DAC compared to cheaper ones, like Fiios, because they're pretty much the same anyway.

 

 

a line level signal is just fine for 30omhz headphones...

 

I must admit, I half-expected you know what you're talking about, for a guy who build his own CMOY and all. 

 

First, headphone's impedance is just 1 part of the equation in determining whether it can be driven properly or not, with the other, most important part, is the sensitivity/efficiency rating. Ipad 3 can't drive a 35 ohms HE400 to my desired volume, while it can drive a 300 ohms HD650, roughly 8,5x the impedance of HE400, to my desired volume, with a little more power to spare. That's because HE400's efficiency is 92.5dB/mW while the HD650's is 103dB/mW, much more efficient than the HE400

 

Second, have you looked at Modi's specs? Output impedance: 75 ohms. To get a decent damping factor, the headphone's impedance should be 8x that number, which is 600 ohms. Here, check the specs yourself: http://schiit.com/products/modi go to specs tab. Please don't tell me you're actually suggesting someone to plug a 30 something ohms headphone, with high efficiency, to a device with 75 ohms output impedance....

[ShearMe]

[Ch!Kn]

Ah you don't get it? What I was saying, pick an opinion, and stick with it. If you think 'the DAC used plays an important part in the sound', then you wouldn't say 'all DACs are gimmick'. If you think 'all DACs are pretty much the same anyway', then there's no sense in buying an external DAC, unless the onboard is faulty, with statics, noises, hisses, etc. Even if, for argument's sake, just say the onboard is unusable, still there's certainly no sense in choosing a $100 DAC compared to cheaper ones, like Fiios, because they're pretty much the same anyway.

 

 

I must admit, I half-expected you know what you're talking about, for a guy who build his own CMOY and all. 

 

First, headphone's impedance is just 1 part of the equation in determining whether it can be driven properly or not, with the other, most important part, is the sensitivity/efficiency rating. Ipad 3 can't drive a 35 ohms HE400 to my desired volume, while it can drive a 300 ohms HD650, roughly 8,5x the impedance of HE400, to my desired volume, with a little more power to spare. That's because HE400's efficiency is 92.5dB/mW while the HD650's is 103dB/mW, much more efficient than the HE400

 

Second, have you looked at Modi's specs? Output impedance: 75 ohms. To get a decent damping factor, the headphone's impedance should be 8x that number, which is 600 ohms. Here, check the specs yourself: http://schiit.com/products/modi go to specs tab. Please don't tell me you're actually suggesting someone to plug a 30 something ohms headphone, with high efficiency, to a device with 75 ohms output impedance....

first of all, it's not going to make much of an audible difference if you were to plug a 100$ 30omhz headphone into a device with 75 ohms output impedance just turn the digital volume down if it's loud or something... No i'm not much of an electrical guy just because i can read electrical diagrams and follow instructions...

 

secoundly in the end i suggested that he simply don't bother with a dac\amp and just buy better headphones.

 

Finally, we are not dealing with enthusiast grade budgets here (as in this guy isn't going to give a crap about the extreme technicalities) and I have no clue what you're desired volume is because i can do a quick google search and find that no one has a problem running he400's out of cheap phones and laptops...

 

sidenote, why did this matter to you enough to warrant a full on number crunching response... I'm almost willing to bet that I could do some googling and find out that neither of us know what we are talking about. Were going off topic btw 

 

Oh well my final suggestion is that he save the money and buy senheiser momentums or some 300usd akg's (they are all roughly the same).

 

to address the comment of how no point in a 100$ modi vs fiio I just woulden't recommend paying 50 or 60$ (actually the decent fiios tend to cost around 80$) for "cheap" mass produced garbarge when for only 20 or 40$ more the modi is a great, all high quality parts first world labor device. And again you know what i meant, why would you spend over 100$ on a 5$ dac chip? the highest costing dac chips cost maybe 20$ to manufacture... I recommend the modi because i know and can quote the schitt company that it's probably the last dac you will ever need (a high end dac chip with a well designed circuit to complement it)

 

I found a good post on this from another forum^ you can find some of the same chips in "high-end" equipment that are found in "low-end" equipment. 

Which is why I am using quotation marks around the pseudo-categories "low-end" and "high-end".

As you approach the "high-end" of the spectrum, beware that the "BS factor" also increases.

[creatip123]

first of all, it's not going to make much of an audible difference if you were to plug a 100$ 30omhz headphone into a device with 75 ohms output impedance just turn the digital volume down if it's loud or something... No i'm not much of an electrical guy just because i can read electrical diagrams and follow instructions...

 

 

???

 

Damping factor, google it. Continue later when you got a basic idea of what it is....

[Ch!Kn]

???

 

Damping factor, google it. Continue later when you got a basic idea of what it is....

You're right my answer made no sence in that regard my bad... But regardless do you really think low level distortion is a big deal when we're talking 100$ headphones?

 

Anyways... the op would do far better if he didin't buy a dac or amp and you know it!

[creatip123]

You're right my answer made no sence in that regard my bad... But regardless do you really think low level distortion is a big deal when we're talking 100$ headphones?

 

Anyways... the op would do far better if he didin't buy a dac or amp and you know it!

 

When and where did I say anything against buying or not buying a dac or amp? Find the post, quote it, we'll continue after that.

[BoredErica]

 

 

 

thread3gud5me

 

i want my mommy

[Ch!Kn]

When and where did I say anything against buying or not buying a dac or amp? Find the post, quote it, we'll continue after that.

I never said you said that I just meant if you know anything about headphones you would realise theres better value (sound quality) e in a sennheiser momentum for example (only thing i can think of off the top of my head) vs something like an athm50 + dac/amp.

 

Dunno why you're so butthurt about this?

[creatip123]

I never said you said that I just meant if you know anything about headphones you would realise theres better value (sound quality) e in a sennheiser momentum for example (only thing i can think of off the top of my head) vs something like an athm50 + dac/amp.

 

Dunno why you're so butthurt about this?

 

I'm not the one who's suggesting the OP to buy a $100 DAC only device that can't be used directly with his/her headphone.

 

Wanna know my problem? Have you ever consider beforehand, what if the OP, who only have a limited budget to spend and don't know much about audio yet, take your advice, and go ahead and spend $100 on the Modi DAC, only to find it's unusable by itself, because it needs a separate amp?

 

No, there's nothing wrong with the Modi. I believe it's a fairly good piece of equipment. It's just not, and never, meant to be plugged directly to a headphone, without an external amp. 

 

Oh, and before you dodge again, and say you never suggested the OP to get a Modi, here, let me refresh your memory:

 

I haven't read the other posts, but I would look into m50's or beyerdynamic custom one pros.

Dac's are a gimmick (imho), for around 100usd you're looking at a schitt modi http://schiit.com/products/modi this is the last dac you will ever need nothing is gonna sound better (how hard is it to convert an audio signal from digital to analog, like really) and I would advise against further research as you will either come to my conclusion or get obsessed with wasting your money on stuff that isnt going to improve your audio signal.

 

If you can't get the schitt modi, then i would recommend you look into basically any 100$ audio interface designed for music production. They are all high grade parts and tend to not contain any of the bs that comes with "audiophile grade" equipment. I would personally recommend the steinberg ci1 as it produces a clean neutral sound (good for many genres) and is readily available worldwide (google it).

 

Sidenote: personally wouldent bother with fiio. They make good dacs, but from what i have read they are considered basically "at least I have a dac" products and have been replaced by newer alternatives (look up schitt audio if you can).

 

First you're suggesting the OP to get the M50 or COP, and a Modi, and/or any $100 audio interface, and stay away from Fiio products. Now you're saying he/she is better off getting a better headphone, compared to M50 + amp/dac. And you still don't understand why you're being criticized?

 

I'm not the one who's butthurt here. The question is, are you?

[Ch!Kn]

I'm not the one who's suggesting the OP to buy a $100 DAC only device that can't be used directly with his/her headphone.

 

Wanna know my problem? Have you ever consider beforehand, what if the OP, who only have a limited budget to spend and don't know much about audio yet, take your advice, and go ahead and spend $100 on the Modi DAC, only to find it's unusable by itself, because it needs a separate amp?

 

No, there's nothing wrong with the Modi. I believe it's a fairly good piece of equipment. It's just not, and never, meant to be plugged directly to a headphone, without an external amp. 

 

Oh, and before you dodge again, and say you never suggested the OP to get a Modi, here, let me refresh your memory:

 

 

First you're suggesting the OP to get the M50 or COP, and a Modi, and/or any $100 audio interface, and stay away from Fiio products. Now you're saying he/she is better off getting a better headphone, compared to M50 + amp/dac. And you still don't understand why you're being criticized?

 

I'm not the one who's butthurt here. The question is, are you?

okay so clearly you don't understand english grammer, maybe it's not your primary language but thats okay, i'm not going to respond to this anymore. Op can buy a modi and plug it into his pc which has an internal amp (which will not be bypassed via usb) and this will be enough to power m50's as loud as he wants and it will sound fine. He can buy a better amp later if his budget supports it and keep the fantastic dac OR he can buy senheiser momentums or some akg 550's which will not need to be amped to sound fine and are a much better option than the m50s and the dac. If you're going to argue that you can't use an external dac without an external amp then you're not very smart. I use the internal amp from my pc with an external dac and it's more then audible through my iems. (fiio d3 to shure se215 if you're curious)

[ShearMe]

So.....

 

I did like V2s. I have Z97P-D3 motherboard so without any amp.

 

I'd like to hear that nice sound of guitar and drums, so I guess DT 990 would be the way to go? Then I would really need a DAC/AMP, what do you people think of Fiio E10K?

 

....yeah.

 

990's should satisfy. If the E10K is in budget it should do the job.

[BoredErica]

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