Gigabyte's Take ONE, Get TWO - Upgrade Programme

[79wjd]

Not a chance.

 

 

Similar to Samsung's 10 year warranty; its merely a selling point....no one would (well....should) use an ssd for 10 years. 

 

No one should use an SSD for 10 years?! Why not? It's not like it slows down over time like spinning rust does. If you're slow it's the fault of your OS or you have viruses. Reformat, reinstall, back to starting speed.

Are you still using a 25-120gb 10-year old 5400-rpm slow as shit hard drive? 

[cesrai]

 

So @patrickjp93 just got #getrekt

[patrickjp93]

Are you still using a 25-120gb 10-year old 5400-rpm slow as shit hard drive?

No, though my school desktop only has 10,000RPM velociraptors. My home workstation has a couple Samsung 840 Pros in it.

But you're making a false comparison. Consumers are not going to notice speed ups once the intervals of time shrink to a certain point. When Samsung puts VNand on it's high-end ultra M.2 SSDs, that will be a near permanent upgrade for me, and I doubt I'll ever need better. We're beyond the age of consumer PCs being bound by ram or drives. Applications aren't exactly getting bigger. You have the space and the speed to game and do CAD. No one actually uses a full spread of 64GB of RAM. The amount of time it takes to seek a couple sectors is nothing. If your software is designed correctly (in terms of paging use and looking ahead) you're never gonna drop a cycle with 32GB of RAM.

[patrickjp93]

And in 10 years from now, how well do you think that ssd will fair compared to newer forms of storage?

Well enough the only way you'd see the difference is if your applications don't load enough to be fine for 30 clock cycles without going back to the disk.

[AlwaysFSX]

That's pretty cool of Gigabyte to do this.

[cesrai]

Well enough the only way you'd see the difference is if your applications don't load enough to be fine for 30 clock cycles without going back to the disk.

What if my application had awesome 900p 30fps animation.

[patrickjp93]

What if my application had awesome 900p 30fps animation.

The only time you should notice the disk speed is when changing levels/maps, and honestly your game should predict a change coming and pre-load the RAM. If it doesn't, you're fucking lazy.

[cesrai]

The only time you should notice the disk speed is when changing levels/maps, and honestly your game should predict a change coming and pre-load the RAM. If it doesn't, you're fucking lazy.

Sarcasm much, and we don't know what future will bring us maybe programs will be built differently, but under your scenario an SSD will be enough, we just don't know in the past a 5400 rpm HDD was enough.

[79wjd]

No, though my school desktop only has 10,000RPM velociraptors. My home workstation has a couple Samsung 840 Pros in it.

But you're making a false comparison. Consumers are not going to notice speed ups once the intervals of time shrink to a certain point. When Samsung puts VNand on it's high-end ultra M.2 SSDs, that will be a near permanent upgrade for me, and I doubt I'll ever need better. We're beyond the age of consumer PCs being bound by ram or drives. Applications aren't exactly getting bigger. You have the space and the speed to game and do CAD. No one actually uses a full spread of 64GB of RAM. The amount of time it takes to seek a couple sectors is nothing. If your software is designed correctly (in terms of paging use and looking ahead) you're never gonna drop a cycle with 32GB of RAM.

I'm pretty sure people said the same thing about 128mb of ram and 1gb hard drives. 

[cesrai]

I'm pretty sure people said the same thing about 128mb of ram and 1gb hard drives.

Yep I second this.

[patrickjp93]

Sarcasm much, and we don't know what future will bring us maybe programs will be built differently, but under your scenario an SSD will be enough, we just don't know in the past a 5400 rpm HDD was enough.

When games were tiny and the concept of a map was 2D.

[patrickjp93]

I'm pretty sure people said the same thing about 128mb of ram and 1gb hard drives.

Back when computing was actually computing, and the concept of big data didn't exist.

[cesrai]

When games were tiny and the concept of a map was 2D.

Okay so you second my point.

[cesrai]

Back when computing was actually computing, and the concept of big data didn't exist.

We don't know what the future hold for us, maybe we get like an amazing technology that requires more than you can imagine, we just don't know that is why I thinks SSDs that we have now will be like a 5400 rpm HDD in the future and 64GB of ram won't be overkill.

[79wjd]

When games were tiny and the concept of a map was 2D.

Until computers can output data that matches or exceeds what our brains can input there won't be any stopping in the advancement in computing. 

 

I.e. I'll put money on the fact that 64gb of ram and a modern day 850 pro will become antiquated in 10 years. Also, something of interest--MRAM is in a position (theoretically) to replace both ram and storage in one device--thereby resulting in a VAST improvement in both memory and storage access speeds. 

[patrickjp93]

Okay so you second my point.

No, I say games have already hit the limits of scaling in the manners which would have ever been memory intensive, and RAM is at the size and speed now it would take an idiot to make a program lag due to disk access.

[patrickjp93]

Until computers can output data that matches or exceeds what our brains can input there won't be any stopping in the advancement in computing.

I.e. I'll put money on the fact that 64gb of ram and a modern day 850 pro will become antiquated in 10 years. Also, something of interest--MRAM is in a position (theoretically) to replace both ram and storage in one device--thereby resulting in a VAST improvement in both memory and storage access speeds.

We already have that. There's no human brain that can outpace a modern desktop in information processing speed. Now, on TECHNIQUE, that's where there's a deficit, hence te IBM brain chips.

Also, no, MRAM is doomed. Memristors require rare earth metals to function well. Consumers can't afford it, HMC is the next DRAM replacement for macroscopic sticks, and HBM has replaced GDDR for graphics cards starting with the AMD 300 series.

[79wjd]

We already have that. There's no human brain that can outpace a modern desktop in information processing speed. Now, on TECHNIQUE, that's where there's a deficit, hence te IBM brain chips.

Also, no, MRAM is doomed. Memristors require rare earth metals to function well. Consumers can't afford it, HMC is the next DRAM replacement for macroscopic sticks, and HBM has replaced GDDR for graphics cards starting with the AMD 300 series.

Well, not really. First off I have yet to see a game that makes the environment or characters actually look like they would in real life; they clearly look fake. Now, in terms of simple computing algorithms, computers are faster. In terms of actual intelligence, its not even close. The human brain is still VASTLY superior to a computer. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/163051-simulating-1-second-of-human-brain-activity-takes-82944-processors Just one of many examples displaying the shear complexity of the brain when compared to modern-day computers. 

 

What happens with MRAM specifically is irrelevant, its a theoretical idea, which clealy shows current standards are surely going to become severely outdated. 

[patrickjp93]

Well, not really. First off I have yet to see a game that makes the environment or characters actually look like they would in real life; they clearly look fake. Now, in terms of simple computing algorithms, computers are faster. In terms of actual intelligence, its not even close. The human brain is still VASTLY superior to a computer. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/163051-simulating-1-second-of-human-brain-activity-takes-82944-processors Just one of many examples displaying the shear complexity of the brain when compared to modern-day computers.

What happens with MRAM specifically is irrelevant, its a theoretical idea, which clealy shows current standards are surely going to become severely outdated.

You need to learn how to craft your arguments, because you're way off from what I replied to initially.

Second, looking fake is a matter of artists being limited to old hardware. Simple fact of life.

Also, there are existing AI systems superior to human capability. IBM and Lockheed have both demoed them.

Current standards won't die for at least 12 years, because flash still isn't as reliable and sturdy as spinning rust. If it was the entire enterprise market would move and seagate/WD would go up in smoke in a year. Innovation does mean market movement, and you greatly overestimate it. x86 has had huge innovations the past 6 years, but most programmers suck and don't keep up. For all people's complaints about 5% IPC improvement, 33% faster float performance on Broadwell vs. Haswell. How is that NOT huge? How is Haswell's 200% more graphics power over Ivy Bridge not huge?! This also completely ignores all the new instructions that come out!

If innovation drove markets AMD would be dead as a door nail post-2008.

[germslopz]

That is saweet!! To bad i'm in the US but that's still pretty kick ass of them.

[Ethermaster]

I think some of you are missing the point, how many of you were rocking p35 boards and CPU's then made the jump to either Z68 or Z77? Apart from the DDR2 to DDR3 upgrade all you had to do if buy the new CPU put your old board back in its box and just pay to ship to Gigabyte and get your hands on the latest chip-set and socket for free is all you had to do.. How many would have done it in a heartbeat instead of having to pay for a new board as well? That is what Gigabyte are offering so its a great deal in my eyes

[cesrai]

No, I say games have already hit the limits of scaling in the manners which would have ever been memory intensive, and RAM is at the size and speed now it would take an idiot to make a program lag due to disk access.

Again we don't know what the future has for us, maybe in future 64GB of ram will be standard, maybe games will run in don't know 4D or something...

[cesrai]

You need to learn how to craft your arguments, because you're way off from what I replied to initially.

Second, looking fake is a matter of artists being limited to old hardware. Simple fact of life.

Also, there are existing AI systems superior to human capability. IBM and Lockheed have both demoed them.

Current standards won't die for at least 12 years, because flash still isn't as reliable and sturdy as spinning rust. If it was the entire enterprise market would move and seagate/WD would go up in smoke in a year. Innovation does mean market movement, and you greatly overestimate it. x86 has had huge innovations the past 6 years, but most programmers suck and don't keep up. For all people's complaints about 5% IPC improvement, 33% faster float performance on Broadwell vs. Haswell. How is that NOT huge? How is Haswell's 200% more graphics power over Ivy Bridge not huge?! This also completely ignores all the new instructions that come out!

If innovation drove markets AMD would be dead as a door nail post-2008.

200% graphics power isn't huge because Ivy Bridge graphics sucked a lot and a lot it was fucking horrible.

[mikeeginger]

Ummm cool Idea props to Gigabyte 

[patrickjp93]

Again we don't know what the future has for us, maybe in future 64GB of ram will be standard, maybe games will run in don't know 4D or something...

Oh for Pete's sake! Audio can be better, textures more complex, more pixels added, but you can't claim the industry will advance in some revolutionary way requiring that much memory. Name one game that requires 12GB+ of RAM other than Watch Dogs and Simulators.