doubt with Physx

[shadow196]

i am building my new gaming pc with an fx-8350 and an AMD R9 285 but when i went into the disadvantages of using an amd card , i found out that physx is a major-ish thing that nvidia cards have and AMD cards do not. os here are my questions

 

1. how important is it? if possible can you give me some video links to show how physx affects display?

2. is it possible to run physx using a dedicated physx card with an AMD  card as your primary gpu

3. if yes, what do you suggest me getting?

[LukaP]

1) not. only like 10 games support it, and nine of those are crappy simulators

2) yes but buggy

3) amd card, and then run the basic physics that is needed on the cpu. 

[i_build_nanosuits]

what you should do is reconsider your cpu choice i just upgraded from the ''8 core'' fx and in many games its very sluggish

physx imho is a marketting gimmick it wont change anything its not worth it...physx can also be proccessed by your cpu so instead get a core i5, ifyoure on a budget be aware that a locked core i5 cost about the same as the amd including motherboard and cpu cooler and still for gaming its a much better choice.

[Trik'Stari]

Can't play Mass Effect 3 without physX (or at least I was unable to with my APU, it outright stated I needed physX, not just CTD)

 

Go Nvidia, better drivers, better support, etc.

[Rubenis]

Physx is one of those things every gamer "must have", but in reallity there are so little games that support it, there is no point to buy GPU that support it.

 

And yes, using AMD cpu will let you down at some point + no upgrade path, so better check out some i5+Z97 options.

 

 

Go Nvidia, better drivers, better support, etc.

And worse performance per dollar.

[i_build_nanosuits]

metro ll physx:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VafzR7JqO2

I

[Enderman]

OP, you will be fine without physx.

 

1) not. only like 10 games support it, and nine of those are crappy simulators

2) yes but buggy

 

1) particle simulations and other professional tasks do use physx, it is not just games. But OP is gaming, so this does not apply to him

2) no, you cannot have both amd and nvidia drivers in the same system. Nvidia did an update that no longer allows their drivers to work if there are AMD drivers loaded.

[LukaP]

OP, you will be fine without physx.

 

 

1) particle simulations and other professional tasks do use physx, it is not just games. But OP is gaming, so this does not apply to him

2) no, you cannot have both amd and nvidia drivers in the same system. Nvidia did an update that no longer allows their drivers to work if there are AMD drivers loaded.

1) i was aware about op only gaming

2) wanst there some hybrid physx thing going on? 

[Bogica]

As someone who hasn't had a RADEON card since the 9200PRO. And for the last month I'm running at Radeon card after 6-7 years of Nvidia??? I'm barely missing Physx, actually I hadn't noticed it gone. It is good to have but not a deal breaker. Also Physx causes MAJOR frame drops (I'm looking at you Mafia 2). Batman series took nice advantage of Physx but I'd much rather have a higher framerate than some debris.

[Enderman]

1) i was aware about op only gaming

2) wanst there some hybrid physx thing going on? 

1) ah

2) idk I read somewhere that nvidia drivers no longer work if there are amd drivers, and the card would just be disabled...

not sure if just regular cards or physx too...

 

either way, its not worth trying for one game or two.

[Nineshadow]

1) not. only like 10 games support it, and nine of those are crappy simulators

2) yes but buggy

3) amd card, and then run the basic physics that is needed on the cpu. 

What do you mean?

10 games?

There's way more than that.

[Guest Kloaked]

1) not. only like 10 games support it, and nine of those are crappy simulators

2) yes but buggy

3) amd card, and then run the basic physics that is needed on the cpu. 

 

I don't think all of these 32 games are crappy simulators.

 

PhysX is not = game physics. Basic game physics, or anything else that isn't Nvidia's PhysX (or other exclusive effect) will run on AMD stuff.

 

 

 

what you should do is reconsider your cpu choice i just upgraded from the ''8 core'' fx and in many games its very sluggish

physx imho is a marketting gimmick it wont change anything its not worth it...physx can also be proccessed by your cpu so instead get a core i5, ifyoure on a budget be aware that a locked core i5 cost about the same as the amd including motherboard and cpu cooler and still for gaming its a much better choice.

 

M8, running the PhysX effect on the CPU is like trying to run Crysis 3 on a K4000. It ain't gonna work out well.

[shadow196]

what you should do is reconsider your cpu choice i just upgraded from the ''8 core'' fx and in many games its very sluggish

physx imho is a marketting gimmick it wont change anything its not worth it...physx can also be proccessed by your cpu so instead get a core i5, ifyoure on a budget be aware that a locked core i5 cost about the same as the amd including motherboard and cpu cooler and still for gaming its a much better choice.

is the 8350 so disadvantageous? if so is it possible to get the same\better performance for the same cost without an overclock?

[LukaP]

What do you mean?

10 games?

There's way more than that.

 

 

 

I don't think all of these 32 games are crappy simulators.

 

PhysX is not = game physics. Basic game physics, or anything else that isn't Nvidia's PhysX (or other exclusive effect) will run on AMD stuff.

 

 

i was just saying a number, i know not many games support it, and the most i have played that did were simulators. the other was arkham asylum, and when i disabled it, it didnt look any worse

[Kryptyx]

PhysX is a luxury enhancement that comes with Nvidia cards. It is meant to enhance the experience not completely alter it. Much like getting leather interior in your car, it'll drive the same without it but it will be more enjoyable with it.

[Guest Kloaked]

i was just saying a number, i know not many games support it, and the most i have played that did were simulators. the other was arkham asylum, and when i disabled it, it didnt look any worse

 

Well it's not really a texture setting, so it's not going to add any special lighting or texture effect.

 

However if it's put into the game properly it'll add depth to certain effects, like explosions or object collisions (like sword sparks when swords hit together).

 

PhysX isn't the only reason to get an Nvidia card either.

 

 

Nvidia GTX

 

- Pros

• PhysX - Only in select games, but looks damn good.
• HairWorks - Again, only in select games that implement it, but looks damn good.
• TXAA - Another exclusive effect, but looks damn good in the games that support it and are actually optimized for it (Splinter Cell: Blacklist runs it like shit).
• GeForce Experience - Able to optimize visual settings for your games automatically based on your preferences and hardware. Also comes with GameStream and Shadowplay.
• GameStream - If you own an Nvidia Shield device, you can stream your games to said mobile device and play your games away from your PC and even on another network via internet.
• ShadowPlay - You can record your gameplay via hardware accelerated H.264 encoder which will already be compressed and not a gigantic file like what you would get with say, Fraps. While using ShadowPlay you can also stream to Twitch in a more efficient way.
• EVGA - Offers a very great warranty on all of their GTX products and will work with you to make you happy if you have an issue.

- Cons

• GeForce Experience is still iffy for many users, giving issues ranging from not booting up, ShadowPlay not working properly and one that personally bothers me is not downloading and installing GPU drivers properly.
• Poor price-to-performance compared to Radeon.
• Nvidia sucks at marketing

AMD Radeon

 

- Pros

• Mantle - An alternate API to DirectX exclusive to Radeon at the moment. Gives performance boosts in games that support it over DirectX, but the boosts vary depending on your setup.
• TressFX - Makes hair looks more realistic. The effect is no longer exclusive to Radeon cards, but it will run better on those video cards compared to the competition.
• TrueAudio - A great alternative to 'surround sound' to theoretically give more precision and immersiveness to your environmental audio.
• Price-To-Performance - Absolutely blows away Nvidia in the price-to-performance department. You get way more bang for your buck, as always with AMD.
• Drivers - Reason I listed this as a pro: Radeon's drivers are getting way better, so ignore the people shouting that Radeon's drivers suck, because they're not as bad as they used to be. I see just as many people complain about Nvidia in the same department.
• AMD Gaming Evolved - AMD's counter to GeForce Experience and does what the competition does, but you can also get rewards for simply playing your games. The rewards you get varies on the points you have.
• Sapphire - Sapphire make some of the sexiest coolers and the quietest coolers for Radeon cards.

- Cons

• Many people complain of DoA (dead on arrival) and cards not functioning properly later down the road, more than the competition it would seem. This isn't 100% a fact, however. Take this with a grain of salt.
• AMD's highest end 290x does not beat a 780ti in most areas, but only loses by a bit.
• AMD absolutely sucks at marketing and naming conventions, and some decisions they make, make absolutely no sense. Could be said about both companies.

 

 

- Conclusion

 

Both vendors have excellent products. Like every single piece of tech on the market, it is all prone to DoA and malfunctions down the road. This is why you choose the appropriate aftermarket manufacturer, such as EVGA (GTX exclusive) or Sapphire (Radeon exclusive). Everyone on this forum can agree that both companies absolutely suck at marketing. Nvidia says their Titan cards are gaming cards, which isn't the whole story that they try to sell, AMD keeps rebranding things with only little improvements and so on. They both make stupid decisions but they do it for business reasons, even though they are still stupid. Did I mention they make stupid decisions?

 

tl;dr, pick your card and don't be a brand whore.

 

[PhantomChevron]

PhysX is not really used, so you don't need it @OP, and don't listen to the guy with the member title "PhysX Promoter" He tends to be biased in that sense

[LukaP]

Well it's not really a texture setting, so it's not going to add any special lighting or texture effect.

 

However if it's put into the game properly it'll add depth to certain effects, like explosions or object collisions (like sword sparks when swords hit together).

 

PhysX isn't the only reason to get an Nvidia card either.

 

 

Nvidia GTX

 

- Pros

• PhysX - Only in select games, but looks damn good.
• HairWorks - Again, only in select games that implement it, but looks damn good.
• TXAA - Another exclusive effect, but looks damn good in the games that support it and are actually optimized for it (Splinter Cell: Blacklist runs it like shit).
• GeForce Experience - Able to optimize visual settings for your games automatically based on your preferences and hardware. Also comes with GameStream and Shadowplay.
• GameStream - If you own an Nvidia Shield device, you can stream your games to said mobile device and play your games away from your PC and even on another network via internet.
• ShadowPlay - You can record your gameplay via hardware accelerated H.264 encoder which will already be compressed and not a gigantic file like what you would get with say, Fraps. While using ShadowPlay you can also stream to Twitch in a more efficient way.
• EVGA - Offers a very great warranty on all of their GTX products and will work with you to make you happy if you have an issue.

- Cons

• GeForce Experience is still iffy for many users, giving issues ranging from not booting up, ShadowPlay not working properly and one that personally bothers me is not downloading and installing GPU drivers properly.
• Poor price-to-performance compared to Radeon.
• Nvidia sucks at marketing

AMD Radeon

 

- Pros

• Mantle - An alternate API to DirectX exclusive to Radeon at the moment. Gives performance boosts in games that support it over DirectX, but the boosts vary depending on your setup.
• TressFX - Makes hair looks more realistic. The effect is no longer exclusive to Radeon cards, but it will run better on those video cards compared to the competition.
• TrueAudio - A great alternative to 'surround sound' to theoretically give more precision and immersiveness to your environmental audio.
• Price-To-Performance - Absolutely blows away Nvidia in the price-to-performance department. You get way more bang for your buck, as always with AMD.
• Drivers - Reason I listed this as a pro: Radeon's drivers are getting way better, so ignore the people shouting that Radeon's drivers suck, because they're not as bad as they used to be. I see just as many people complain about Nvidia in the same department.
• AMD Gaming Evolved - AMD's counter to GeForce Experience and does what the competition does, but you can also get rewards for simply playing your games. The rewards you get varies on the points you have.
• Sapphire - Sapphire make some of the sexiest coolers and the quietest coolers for Radeon cards.

- Cons

• Many people complain of DoA (dead on arrival) and cards not functioning properly later down the road, more than the competition it would seem. This isn't 100% a fact, however. Take this with a grain of salt.
• AMD's highest end 290x does not beat a 780ti in most areas, but only loses by a bit.
• AMD absolutely sucks at marketing and naming conventions, and some decisions they make, make absolutely no sense. Could be said about both companies.

 

 

- Conclusion

 

Both vendors have excellent products. Like every single piece of tech on the market, it is all prone to DoA and malfunctions down the road. This is why you choose the appropriate aftermarket manufacturer, such as EVGA (GTX exclusive) or Sapphire (Radeon exclusive). Everyone on this forum can agree that both companies absolutely suck at marketing. Nvidia says their Titan cards are gaming cards, which isn't the whole story that they try to sell, AMD keeps rebranding things with only little improvements and so on. They both make stupid decisions but they do it for business reasons, even though they are still stupid. Did I mention they make stupid decisions?

 

tl;dr, pick your card and don't be a brand whore.

 

im a game dev, i know what physX does, but from a gaming perspective, its useless until NV allows amd to use it, so we can program more detailed effects with it

[Briggsy]

I wouldn't waste a moment worrying about PhysX. Games that actually use GPU accelerated PhysX are minimal, and in some of those games PhysX is so poorly optimized that it sometimes obliterates frame rates (even with a high end Nvidia GPU... Looking at you Mirror's Edge and Metro 2033). There are a couple of online games that use Physx, buts its all server-side (they don't tell you this in their marketing of course), but a good number of games out there that use PhysX are only using cpu calculations anyway, and won't even advertise they are using PhysX. Honestly, as time has progressed it's become less and less of a selling point, as other physics engines can use your GPU through openCL anyway, and do it better in many cases. 

[Kryptyx]

im a game dev, i know what physX does, but from a gaming perspective, its useless until NV allows amd to use it, so we can program more detailed effects with it

 

Nvidia developed the technology, it is their property - why give it to a competitor? Additionally, I don't think it is useless to develop for a majority of the market.

[silberdrachi]

PhysX is just for graphics and looks it has nothing to do with the actual performance of the game itself.

 

Thats the issue with these brand based APIs, no one can code anything big against them (other than "ooh look at the waving fabric") because you will exclude a large portion of the market and your sales will suffer. They are limited to just making the games "look good" and in most cases it is really really small stuff that you would never notice if it wasn't for the fact that there are videos showing side by side comparisons. Or massive marketing campaigns to say X is better than Y.

 

IMO: Never buy a gpu off what APIs it supports

[LukaP]

Nvidia developed the technology, it is their property - why give it to a competitor? Additionally, I don't think it is useless to develop for a majority of the market.

they wont, ergo its useless

 

it is, because you are dividing the market then. either make a game use all the physx (no game ever made does that, there is so much stuff you can do with it) and have only 60% of the market be able to run it, or not have physx

[silberdrachi]

Nvidia developed the technology, it is their property - why give it to a competitor? Additionally, I don't think it is useless to develop for a majority of the market.

 

One of the reasons is because it would get more major adoption and allow companies to do more interesting things with it, rather than having "splashing water" in the puddles.

 

Problem is you cant code anything big or game pivotal against it because then the other 30% (ish) of the market cant run your game at all, and you lose sales.

[Kryptyx]

they wont, ergo its useless

 

it is, because you are dividing the market then. either make a game use all the physx (no game ever made does that, there is so much stuff you can do with it) and have only 60% of the market be able to run it, or not have physx

 

 

One of the reasons is because it would get more major adoption and allow companies to do more interesting things with it, rather than having "splashing water" in the puddles.

 

Problem is you cant code anything big or game pivotal against it because then the other 30% (ish) of the market cant run your game at all, and you lose sales.

 

 

I'm a developer too, granted not a game dev, but I understand the points you are both trying to make. PhysX is an enhancement and should be supported if it is available, the reason most games don't support it is simply because they are cheap console ports. Most games that are developed purely for PC or with the PC in mind at the start end up using it.

[Briggsy]

Most games that are developed purely for PC or with the PC in mind at the start end up using it.

 

If you were speaking about Havok (also GPU accelerated), then I would agree. the list of pc only games that use hardware accelerated PhysX, a good chunk, are online titles and use server side GPU based PhysX.