Dota 2 TI4 ESPN Reception

[ACatWithThumbs]

I'd recommend CS:GO or Starcraft 2. Both have a large tournament following already - especially Starcraft 2. And both are easy to follow/understand without knowing the rules to the game.

 

They could certainly also have done CoD or BF series but I didn't think either had a particularly large tournament scene.

That's the hole point the ESPN show wasn't for the tournament following but for people that don't have anything to do with games.

Those people will cringe if they see something like Starcraft 2.

They need a game that's simple/basic and that has some pretty graphics.

Fighting games as an example are perfect for ESports because everybody can understand it just by looking at it without any prior knowledge.

And later as people get interested you can show more complex games.

They should show something like this:

Not something like this:

[dalekphalm]

That's the hole point the ESPN show wasn't for the tournament following but for people that don't have anything to do with games.

Those people will cringe if they see something like Starcraft 2.

They need a game that's simple/basic and that has some pretty graphics.

Fighting games as an example are perfect for ESports because everybody can understand it just by looking at it without any prior knowledge.

And later as people get interested you can show more complex games.

They should show something like this:

Not something like this:

 

Well unless ESPN was willing to front all the money to basically establish or raise one of the "lower tier" e-Sports games into the level of SC2 or DOTA2, then I don't see that happening, at least not right away.

 

One of the reasons they chose DOTA2 was money. First, they had Valve's backing (And Valve's deeeeep pockets), and second, the prize pool was insane!

 

Despite your rather chaotic screenshot, SC2 is actually incredibly easy to follow for a tourney game. If they get a good caster duo, like Marcus "djWheat" Graham and Sean "Day[9]" Plott, who are able to do deep analysis but also keep the games lively and interesting and easy for newbs to follow. Or take it even further with especially noob friendly combos like adding John "TotalBiscuit" Bain or Mike "Husky" Lamond. Although TB won't be seeing much tourney action for quite some time with his battle against cancer. Can't wait for him to beat cancer in the face and then come back to the tourneys.

 

In a game like SC2... and to a lesser degree, any e-Sports game, the casters are half of what makes it good. Have bad casters? It'll be a shitty tourney to spectate. Have a set of great casters, and it can save otherwise dull matches, or games that are less interesting or harder to follow.

 

Although you're right that a fighting game like SF4 or MK some number are probably the easiest to follow. I personally just don't find them interesting to watch at all. Something like SC2 or CS:GO is much more interesting to me.

[theABCshop]

I knew this was going to happen. The funny part is probably 75% of the people making these comments don't do sports or exercise. Hypocrites will be hypocrites. 

[Lord Pantaloons]

I don't understand why people want videogames to be taken seriously in this way.

[StingBull]

What the ESPN audience thinks is so not important to Dota 2 that I don't know why Valve bothered.

I don't like this drive from gaming companies to find mainstream acceptance. We had enough of that shit with Nintendo.

[martinrox1568]

wasnt talking about tweets. they are probably typical people that watch the football or basketball with beer every week and dont know shit about gaming. in their mind, its just a "Video Game"

i was talking about dota a competitive game, being shown on a well known Sports channel world wide. its finally being realised as a sport.

the people that watch football or basketball are the mainstream people. If they are complaining, then that means its not mainstream. Also, dota or league or any other video game isn't a sport. It is a competition, and they are fun to watch, but its not a sport. I'm not being mean or anything, its just true. Is chess a sport? 

[Heisenbleurgh]

the people that watch football or basketball are the mainstream people. If they are complaining, then that means its not mainstream. Also, dota or league or any other video game isn't a sport. It is a competition, and they are fun to watch, but its not a sport. I'm not being mean or anything, its just true. Is chess a sport? 

Well it is considered one. Sports are evolving to being a competition of tactic and smarts, not just physical ability anymore.

[Heisenbleurgh]

Btw to be perfectly honest I think the decision to televise this came from the amount of money involved in the prize more than people deciding e-sports are same as regular sports. Still good though. I guess. Not particularly concerned.

[Xorbot]

You sure about that sentence? Football, baseball, and basketball are still extremely popular among the teen and pre-teen generation. Maybe the generation after mine (I'm a teen) will never have watched any of the mainstream sports, but I'm one of the only people at my 5A highschool that watches esports. It's still a very small minority. The time for for e-sports to become mainstream is not now. Sports is still a very large part of young people's lives. Hell, I love Dota 2 and I don't think it's a sport. It's an e-sport, it's in the name.

 

Yes I am sure about this sentence.  While there will always be at least one person who does something that is completely opposite of everyone else as the de facto caveat, there will be a time when football as we know it today will cease to exist.  Perhaps there will be several overlaps in the generations, meaning that MOBAs will not be the thing that directly replaces football.

 

To put it into perspective, consider how many people go to stadiums in 2014 to watch gladiators fight to the death.  What's that?  Oh right, that form of entertainment has ceased to exist for centuries.  Yes, there is probably a very small subset of people out there who watch only the movie Gladiator (since we don't have original gladiatorial footage), and not football, but I re-iterate that this small group is statistically insignificant for our discussion.  There may even be people out there who only watch VHS tapes of hamsters running on wheels... statistically it is possible with our 7+ billion population, but once again, statistically insignificant worth noting.

 

So back to the main discussion, it appears that the trend is that people are doing more and more things with less physical effort and more mental effort.  In our society, I can easily buy a hamburger composed of beef, and I didn't even have to raise, feed, and slaughter a cow myself to make it happen.  To have something that would be equivalent to a hamburger in 1574, it may take more effort.  Here is one example of how our civilization is tending toward less physical work to achieve the same tasks and goals.

 

Jumping forward into the future, I believe that we will see a lot more mental-based activity rather than physical.  The physical efforts of chasing a ball around a field will likely become comical to generations of the future thousands of years from now.  It doesn't seem that technology will "go away" at any point in civilization going forward, so it will stand to reason that events and entertainment surrounding technological activity involving the mind becomes more commonplace and the norm.

 

For the reasons I outlined in previous paragraphs, I stand by the statement you've highlighted in my quote.

[Commander Llama]

Watching e-sports can be pretty damn great.  Not personally into MOBAs at all but to each their own.

 

I wouldn't feel bad about the negative reception though.  Change is super duper scary.  Also, sport loyalty is basically religious, there isn't much of a logical basis going on there.

[FratStar]

Why does a sport require a large physical aspect?

 

According to the Internationally Accepted (or De Facto) definition of "Sport", E-Sports definitely qualify:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport#Definition

 

SportAccord is the international association of all the major sports leagues and federations in the world.

 

Although it funnily enough goes on to say that many mainstream sports organizations don't view e-Sports as a sport, despite it definitely qualifying by their VERY OWN DEFINITION. Hypocrites if you ask me...

 

Anyway, according to the definition, yes, e-Sports are sports too. I've highlighted the two main factors used in e-Sports in that quote, mind: using tactics and strategy to out-think your opponent, and co-ordination: using hand-eye co-ordination to accurately out-control your opponent.

  

I did not know that at all thanks for enlightening me.

the people that watch football or basketball are the mainstream people. If they are complaining, then that means its not mainstream. Also, dota or league or any other video game isn't a sport. It is a competition, and they are fun to watch, but its not a sport. I'm not being mean or anything, its just true. Is chess a sport?

Whether you like it or not chess is considered a sport and I'm not sure on this but isn't it in the Olympics? And playing video games on a high level are no less intensive on the mind as playing another chess player who is easily as skilled as you.

[Bschro4]

Why do these people insist on complaining, when all they have to do is switch over to a different channel. Plus, nothing good is on ESPN 2 anyway, unless it's football season 

[martinrox1568]

Well it is considered one. Sports are evolving to being a competition of tactic and smarts, not just physical ability anymore.

No its not. here's the difinition of a sport

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

thats from dictionary.com

[martinrox1568]

  

I did not know that at all thanks for enlightening me.

Whether you like it or not chess is considered a sport and I'm not sure on this but isn't it in the Olympics? And playing video games on a high level are no less intensive on the mind as playing another chess player who is easily as skilled as you.

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

thats the definition of a sport. And no chess is not part of the olympics and neither is it a sport.

[Xorbot]

Oh, I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm saying it will take a long time. And gladiators moved to cage fighting, boxing, wrestling, wu shu. Our moral standards have changed, which is why we don't allow people to kill each other anymore. But we still watch people fight. It has simply morphed into a less lethal version of what it once was.

 

I suppose we have yet to see the long term effects of competitive gaming, but at least we can say that there are no concussions and severe brain and body damage that is associated with retired football players.

[FratStar]

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

thats the definition of a sport. And no chess is not part of the olympics and neither is it a sport.

"Chess is a recognized sport of the International Olympic Committee and international chess competition is sanctioned by the World Chess Federation (FIDE), which adopted the now-standard Staunton chess set in 1924 for use in all official games." <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_IOC_Recognised_International_Sports_Federations

http://www.arisf.org/members/Chess%20#Chess

Do better research next time.

 

Secondly if curling is a sport I don't really think people can make a case against things like Chess like Gaming to be frank.

 

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_sport_federations you can go search each organization's website as well. Have fun. I'm done here. Also dexterity does require some degree of athleticism. Please show me an average joe with the dexterity to take an a pro in any game mechanically, just out of nowhere, and as a wrestler I have no problem if it's considered a sport it doesn't affect of be little anything it opens up more opportunites for people hell maybe people might be able to seek higher education while playing in the collegiate scene because schools may start offering scholarships (I know one already does).

[martinrox1568]

"Chess is a recognized sport of the International Olympic Committee and international chess competition is sanctioned by the World Chess Federation (FIDE), which adopted the now-standard Staunton chess set in 1924 for use in all official games." <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_IOC_Recognised_International_Sports_Federations

http://www.arisf.org/members/Chess%20#Chess

Do better research next time.

 

Secondly if curling is a sport I don't really think people can make a case against things like Chess like Gaming to be frank.

 

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_sport_federations you can go search each organization's website as well. Have fun. I'm done here. Also dexterity does require some degree of athleticism. Please show me an average joe with the dexterity to take an a pro in any game mechanically, just out of nowhere, and as a wrestler I have no problem if it's considered a sport it doesn't affect of be little anything it opens up more opportunites for people hell maybe people might be able to seek higher education while playing in the collegiate scene because schools may start offering scholarships (I know one already does).

while it is recognized as a sport by the ioc, it is not in the olympics, which are 2 entirely seperate things.

[Heisenbleurgh]

No its not. here's the difinition of a sport

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

thats from dictionary.com

It's recognized as a sport by the International Olympic Committee, that's good enough for me. And poker is now a regular find in ESPN, so gaming might become a more frequent sight, maybe not.

Either way, I'm not personally offended by people not considering either of these a sport, but I have a brains over brawn mentality, even if my favorite sport is basketball

[KONA]

it seems to me a lot of these people are in fact gamers just not dota 2 fans i play tonnes of games daily and if i saw dota or league of legends on tv i wouldnt watch it. Look at like regular sports sure ill watch hockey or football but i would never sit through and entire NBA game or MLB game maybe its the game not the fact it is a video game.

[dalekphalm]

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature

thats the definition of a sport. And no chess is not part of the olympics and neither is it a sport.

I'm sorry but that definition is old and outdated and no longer relevant in modern society. Not to mention that each dictionary gives its own definition of the word, so there isn't even consistency there. Dictionaries also take a LONG TIME to redefine a word despite it's modern usage and definition changing. Please see my link below.

 

while it is recognized as a sport by the ioc, it is not in the olympics, which are 2 entirely seperate things.

I've posted this several times within this thread but people keep coming back with "Oh it's not a sport, sports have to be physical". I'm sorry but that may have been the definition once upon a time, but it's no longer true.

 

First, who provides the most internationally recognized definition of sports? That would be "SportAccord"

The closest to an international agreement on a definition is provided by SportAccord, which is the association for all the largest international sports federations (including association football, athletics, cycling, tennis, equestrian sports and more), and is therefore the de facto representative of international sport.

 

 

Next, what is their actual definition:

 

SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should:[1]

    have an element of competition

    be in no way harmful to any living creature

    not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football)

    not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport

They also recognise that sport can be primarily physical (such as rugby or athletics), primarily mind (such as chess or go), predominantly motorised (such as Formula 1 or powerboating), primarily co-ordination (such as billiard sports), or primarily animal-supported (such as equestrian sport).[1]

I've highlighted the two important bits. Mind and co-ordination. e-Sports qualifies as a sport as per the internationally recognized definition.

 

Whether the individual international sports federations or the mainstream community/media accept it as a sport is a different thing. It IS one. It just hasn't gotten mainstream acceptance yet.

[ThatOneNoob]

 

lel

[ThatOneNoob]

ESPN does not necessarily have to show physical sports, I mean look at their name. "Entertainment and Sports Programming Network"

Although I doubt the average person would find watching MOBAs entertaining.

Like Linus said on the WAN show, I wouldn't consider them a "sport", I would only call them an "esport" or a "competition". Going by dictionary.com's definition however you could easily argue it's a sport.

"an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive"

[Guest Kloaked]

I wonder if there was as much naysaying like this before other games were televised. Poker or even golf, for example.

Golf and poker could be easily looked at as casual games that you'd only play with buddies on the weekends, with some alcohol too if course - not something to be played professionally.

[dalekphalm]

I wonder if there was as much naysaying like this before other games were televised. Poker or even golf, for example.

Golf and poker could be easily looked at as casual games that you'd only play with buddies on the weekends, with some alcohol too if course - not something to be played professionally.

I'm sure that this has been a struggle for many sports over the years. Poker and chess are definitely two of the ones that have had to deal with this in the not too distant past.

 

I still see people even here claiming it's not a sport. And that's fine, their opinion, even if it's not correct The internationally accepted definition of sports (by the association of the various sport federations no less) sets criteria for something to be a sport, and e-Sports meets those requirements. It's pretty clear-cut. Don't know why people are getting all upset about it.