Looking for advice on a NAS build

[aelen]

Hello!

 

I'm looking to build a NAS myself since the Synology ds12j I'm currently using is full. I realised I'd like a build where I can easily add more disks as needed, rather than having to buy a new NAS every time the previous one gets full.

 

The only "problem" is that I have never built a NAS before. I have, however, built a few PCs for myself, my brother, my parents and a HTPC which sits at home. So I come here to seek advice on if there's anything specific I should be paying attention to when building a NAS.

 

Since I don't have a *huge* amount of cash to spend right now, I aim to reuse the case from my old PC (an Antec P183 V3) which I know is not really an ideal case, but I aim to replace it at a later stage.

 

My idea was to run 2x 4TB WD Reds in a JBOD configuration and running some linux distro off a usb stick on a usb header on the motherboard.

 

I have been looking around a bit for motherboards, but have not really come to a conclusion about which one would suit this kind of build. Ideally I'd like a motherboard with an integrated cpu and at *least* 4 sata ports.

 

So... I think that's about all the info I have for now. In terms of budget, I have nothing in mind right now, but I imagine getting a motherboard + cpu + ram combo should be doable for ~150-200 euros (I live in the Netherlands)?

 

Any advice is more than welcome - hardware as well as software!

 

Cheers!

 

Edit: I should add that I aim to use this thing mainly to store movies and series, so I don't feel like I really need redundancy at this point.

[Vitalius]

Well, to start, Linux is fine, but here are other options as well:

Amahi (Simple, File Server oriented with plugin support; Free.)

FreeNAS (Simple or complex, depends really, has a lot of options, and supports plugins; Free.)

 

If you can find it, this motherboard is great for a NAS: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157419

Though that's 200 euros by itself in USD (not counting all the other stuff like taxes, shipping, etc). The RAM would be whatever you find acceptable. Probably 4GB of ECC non-buffered RAM which would be like 70 euros (random guess)?

What ShadowCaptain said about his motherboard/CPU. That'd probably be better considering your budget.

[ShadowCaptain]

I wonder if you can find the motherboard and processor I use in my build

 

I am using the H87 G43 and a G3220, works exceptionally well and has tons of sata 6 ports!!!

 

EDIT: links to german amazon just for the euro prices, not sure where you buy hardware in the netherlands

 

 

G43 - 83 euros - has 6 x sata 6gbs ports, and supports raid 0, 1, 5, and 10 (I use raid 10)

http://www.amazon.de/MSI-7816-001R-Z87-G43-Mainboard-Graphics/dp/B00CXOMGGW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405345545&sr=8-1&keywords=msi+g43

 

G3220 - 52 euros

 

http://www.amazon.de/Intel-BX80646G3220-Pentium-G3220-Prozessor/dp/B00EF1G9DW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405345562&sr=8-1&keywords=g3220

[aelen]

Ah, can't believe I forgot to mention it - stupid. But I'd like a mini ITX board, despite the case it will initially sit in. I plan on transplanting the whole thing into a smaller case at some point (perhaps a fractal design node 304, haven't really looked much at cases yet)

[Vitalius]

Ah, can't believe I forgot to mention it - stupid. But I'd like a mini ITX board, despite the case it will initially sit in. I plan on transplanting the whole thing into a smaller case at some point (perhaps a fractal design node 304, haven't really looked much at cases yet)

This is just an example of a build I reference for FreeNAS (you don't need to use FreeNAS, as it wouldn't be very beneficial for you since you aren't worried about redundancy):

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Storage: Western Digital Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ NCIX US)

Storage: Western Digital Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ NCIX US)

Storage: Western Digital Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ NCIX US)

Case: Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($89.99 @ NCIX US)

Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Amazon)

Other: ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard ($280.00)

Other: 2 Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DIMMs ($175.00)

Total: $1024.95

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Now, obviously that is a bit expensive, but it's probably because of the 3TB WD Reds, the nice PSU (for Mini-ITX specifically), and such.

If you can find and save up for that C2550D4I, I highly recommend it. It's the best performance-size ratio you can get (with a price to match it though). 

However, here's a more budget version of a similar motherboard (Made by ASRock as well, has the D2550 embedded Atom CPU, etc): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157417

 

So 2 embedded cores, 7 SATA ports, 1 Motherboard USB port, etc.

 

Hopefully you can find that in your country. It's ~110 euros which is right in your budget leaving plenty for RAM. Note that the 16GB of RAM in the above example build is for FreeNAS. Linux wouldn't need it. 2-4GB should be more than enough.

[aelen]

That more budget version motherboard actually looks really nice. Cheapest I can find it for over here is ~130 but since it's got pretty much everything I need, I don't think that's a big issue.

 

In terms of HDDs, I was thinking of just using LVM to make them appear as a single disk, since I believe it's fairly painless to add a new disk, but I've some reading left to do in that arena.

 

Thanks so far!

[Vitalius]

That more budget version motherboard actually looks really nice. Cheapest I can find it for over here is ~130 but since it's got pretty much everything I need, I don't think that's a big issue.

 

In terms of HDDs, I was thinking of just using LVM to make them appear as a single disk, since I believe it's fairly painless to add a new disk, but I've some reading left to do in that arena.

 

Thanks so far!

You're welcome. 

@ionbasa @MG2R I know nothing about LVM. Good luck.

[MG2R]

For hardware: if you can spare the cash, an ASRock C2750D4I or its smaller brother, the C2550D4I, coupled with a RAM stick of at least 512 MB would be a great option. 12 SATA ports, eight (or quad) core processor, very low power consumption, IPMI, dual gigabit LAN.

 

LVM: if you want JBOD (or even software RAID), LVM should be just fine for you. It's true that you can very easily add more drives to the pool when needed, especially in JBOD mode.

 

 

EDIT: and yes, 512MB of RAM would really be all you need for running a baseline Debian CLI NAS. Don't throw heaps of RAM at the system if you only intend to use it for a few basic tasks. For reference: my Debian home server is using 436 MB right now, and that has BTsync using 70 MB

Edited July 14, 2014 by MG2R

[aelen]

Cheers for the advice! Those boards do look really suited for the task, really the only downside seems to be the price tag. However, if I'll be able to add more disks very easily (up to 12!) it might be worth it anyway.

 

I was planning on, probably, installing either Arch, Debian or Ubuntu, since those are the distros I have the most experience with. I do intend to just run JBOD, or maybe really just exposing the disks separately to the network. I have very little experience with NAS configurations, so I'm not sure how the system would react if the motherboard (or so) burned out and I still wanted to access the data on those disks, like if I wanted to place them in another machine.

 

I have some reading to do.

 

Thanks so far, guys!

[MG2R]

so I'm not sure how the system would react if the motherboard (or so) burned out and I still wanted to access the data on those disks, like if I wanted to place them in another machine.

I know for a fact that if you go with software RAID (mdadm), your array can survive complete system failure. My RAID array has survived through four full hardware upgrades and countless full reinstalls.

I don't know out of own experience how resilient the LVM RAID is in this regard, but I'd assume the volume groups would be movable between systems as well. Again, don't quote me on that, though.

[plc268]

For hardware: if you can spare the cash, an ASRock C2750D4I or its smaller brother, the C2550D4I, coupled with a RAM stick of at least 512 MB would be a great option. 12 SATA ports, eight (or quad) core processor, very low power consumption, IPMI, dual gigabit LAN.

 

LVM: if you want JBOD (or even software RAID), LVM should be just fine for you. It's true that you can very easily add more drives to the pool when needed, especially in JBOD mode.

 

 

EDIT: and yes, 512MB of RAM would really be all you need for running a baseline Debian CLI NAS. Don't throw heaps of RAM at the system if you only intend to use it for a few basic tasks. For reference: my Debian home server is using 436 MB right now, and that has BTsync using 70 MB

 

Honestly, I'd avoid those Avoton boards at all cost. I owned the ASRock C2750 myself for a while because I was attracted by the 12 sata ports, but it was by far the worst experience I've had when dealing with a new motherboard. There are major SATA controller issues (there's 3 sata controllers), where one controller doesn't work right, and will cause sata connections to drop out. So you really only have 8 effective ports. Not to mention, the SATA port locations are awkward and close together. You're gonna struggle populating the ports with standard SATA cables, and will drive you to buy the expensive Silverstone slim SATA cables (like I did).

 

Also, in the time I've had the board, I would have to reboot daily, because the OS would hardlock and required a reset. I never did find out the reason for this, as I always  ran a headless OS (Unraid) that didn't capture the logs, but I wasn't the only one having issues with the ASRock Avoton boards. I've since returned that board and am now running a mini-itx xeon board, and it's been great with no problems.

 

However, running Avoton (or Xeon) for a NAS is rather overkill if you don't need the CPU power. I personally run a  Plex server on that machine in a VM and have a few other VMs, so I wanted a decent multicore CPU. But, if all you're going to do is basic file serving, you're better off grabbing a cheap mini-itx board and using a Core i3 or Pentium chip. Any lack of Sata ports on the board itself, can be easily supplemented with a cheap PCI-E SATA controller.

 

As far as software, I highly recommend running an OS designed to be  a NAS. I personally use UNRAID (costs money) as it's been rock solid and stable in the last few years I've used it. There's alternatives that are free like FreeNAS and a couple of others that names are escaping me right now. But basically all of those will make an array of drives with some redundancy that will allow you to recover data in case of drive loss. 

[Vitalius]

Honestly, I'd avoid those Avoton boards at all cost. I owned the ASRock C2750 myself for a while because I was attracted by the 12 sata ports, but it was by far the worst experience I've had when dealing with a new motherboard. There are major SATA controller issues (there's 3 sata controllers), where one controller doesn't work right, and will cause sata connections to drop out. So you really only have 8 effective ports. Not to mention, the SATA port locations are awkward and close together. You're gonna struggle populating the ports with standard SATA cables, and will drive you to buy the expensive Silverstone slim SATA cables (like I did).

 

Also, in the time I've had the board, I would have to reboot daily, because the OS would hardlock and required a reset. I never did find out the reason for this, as I always  ran a headless OS (Unraid) that didn't capture the logs, but I wasn't the only one having issues with the ASRock Avoton boards. I've since returned that board and am now running a mini-itx xeon board, and it's been great with no problems.

 

However, running Avoton (or Xeon) for a NAS is rather overkill if you don't need the CPU power. I personally run a  Plex server on that machine in a VM and have a few other VMs, so I wanted a decent multicore CPU. But, if all you're going to do is basic file serving, you're better off grabbing a cheap mini-itx board and using a Core i3 or Pentium chip. Any lack of Sata ports on the board itself, can be easily supplemented with a cheap PCI-E SATA controller.

 

As far as software, I highly recommend running an OS designed to be  a NAS. I personally use UNRAID (costs money) as it's been rock solid and stable in the last few years I've used it. There's alternatives that are free like FreeNAS and a couple of others that names are escaping me right now. But basically all of those will make an array of drives with some redundancy that will allow you to recover data in case of drive loss. 

I've built 3 systems with the C2550D4I & the C2750D4I and both have been great. It could just be some incompatibiilty with UNRAID as that's not on the list of compatible OS'. Or maybe you just had a bad board.

I did read that it had some issues in the past, but based on recent reviews, those have been fixed.

 

Just saying. I agree about the "M-ITX & Pentium is better" comment, but that's my experience with these boards.

[plc268]

I've built 3 systems with the C2550D4I & the C2750D4I and both have been great. It could just be some incompatibiilty with UNRAID as that's not on the list of compatible OS'. Or maybe you just had a bad board.

I did read that it had some issues in the past, but based on recent reviews, those have been fixed.

 

Just saying. I agree about the "M-ITX & Pentium is better" comment, but that's my experience with these boards.

 

It wasn't an incompatibility with just unraid, it exhibited the same behaviors with Ubuntu as well.

 

But you're probably right, some issues probably got fixed and there's probably been a bios update, I just figured I throw out my experiences with the board. Perhaps I did get a bad board, but I knew several others on at least two forums that had nearly identical issues to me, and it's hard to just discount that as simply bad luck.

 

But when the board worked for me, it was great. While it carried a processor based on the Atom, its performance vastly exceeded my expectations.

[MG2R]

Well, I'm happy with my board and just wanted to point him to it. It is a nice and compact, low power/performance or size/performance ratio board, so it might be worth taking a look at. For pure price, there are better options out there, for sure.