PS5 Pro specs confirmed, expected release before the festive season this year. SOC also pictured

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

Me and you are for some reason opposed, but is it the medium we interact with or the rules imposed which cause segragation?

You will find opposing views and opinions everywhere forever, this is not a bad thing. Everyone agreeing on everything is not a good thing.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

Just now, leadeater said:

You will find opposing views and opinions everywhere forever, this is not a bad thing.

It locks us within our own minds forever needing things answered by rules, not answers.

[starsmine]

11 hours ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

Congrats. $450 to play two $70+ games.

 

Also remake after remake...

 

Yikes.

 

Double yikes!

remake, not remaster, the games are different down to every single mechanic, and the story is not even the same. 

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

9 hours ago, starsmine said:

remake, not remaster, the games are different down to every single mechanic, and the story is not even the same. 

I typed remake, are you even reading?

 

Also this lines up with the intellect of gamers dropping as per the study.

 

 

[leadeater]

14 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

Also this lines up with the intellect of gamers dropping as per the study.

That is not what the study is showing or even what the question being asked would be able to meaningfully show. A group of people were asked how much they care about strategy in the games they play and over time people care less about that compared to other things about the games they play. Taste in gameplay isn't a strong  indicator of intellect.

 

It would be like me saying the prevalence of people being suck in by misleading news article titles shows people are getting "dumber", which would also be flawed.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That is not what the study is showing or even what the question being asked would be able to meaningfully show. A group of people were asked how much they care about strategy in the games they play and over time people care less about that compared to other things about the games they play. Taste in gameplay isn't a strong  indicator of intellect.

 

It would be like me saying the prevalence of people being suck in by misleading news article titles shows people are getting "dumber", which would also be flawed.

It's not misleading, it just has a limit on sample size.

 

You are the only one who posted anything misleading, such as consoles sold when it was not the argument being made that PS5 has no games and still don't.

 

I love how thne internet has made everyone think they are the top dog of intellect.

 

Dunning & Kruger also fit within that video and the drop in intellect.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

Dr_David_Dunning

• 10y ago

The best way to avoid errors that you are unaware of (the Dunning-Kruger effect) is not to catch those errors (you won’t see them anyway), but to avoid making them in the first place. Or, if you are bound to make them, to mitigate their effect. How to do that?

Get competent. Always be learning.

Absent that, get mentors or a “kitchen cabinet” of people whose opinions you’ve found useful in the past.

Or, know when the problem is likely to be most common, such as when you are doing something new. For myself, for instance, I know how to give a lecture or a public talk. I do it all the time. However, just last month I had to buy a car, for only the fourth time in my life. Knowing this is an uncommon thing for me to do, I spent a lot of time research cars…and also how to buy them.

Our most recent research also suggests one should be wary of quick and impulsive decisions…that those who get caught in DKE errors less are those who deliberate over them, at least a little. People who jump to conclusions are the most prone to overconfident error.

And they also do so in a particular way. I have found it useful to explicitly consider how I might be wrong or missing in a decision. What’s wrong with this car deal that seems so attractive? What have I left out in this response about avoiding the DKE?

And our political figures? I think they are only as informed and well-reasoned as the voters who select them.

And the comments suggest something that I would like to amplify. I am often asked if being confident is fundamentally good or bad. I say it has to be both, in its proper place. A general on the day of battle needs to be confident so that his or her troops execute the battle plan with efficiency. Doing so saves lives. However, before that day, I want a cautious general who over-plans—one who wants more troops, more ordnance, better contingency plans—so that he or she is best prepared for the day of battle. Who wants an overconfident general who underestimates the number of troops and ordnance he or she will need to prevail?

I think that analogy works for athletes, too. They don’t use confidence to become complacent, but to use confidence to put in the extra effort and strategizing that will help them excel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only did the video line up with how stupidity is right now but the famed psychologist did too.

 

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

It's not misleading, it just has a limit on sample size.

It's not a limit of sample size. Actually watch the video you posted. It's a survey of what aspects/motivations of game play people like and people value Strategy less over time. This is a very poor indicator of intellect. 

 

4 hours ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

You are the only one who posted anything misleading, such as consoles sold when it was not the argument being made that PS5 has no games and still don't.

Nope, you said they don't have games. Got proven wrong then switch to arguing that only exclusives matter.

 

My retort to your premise is and has and will always be exclusives really do not matter much anymore. You even said yourself society changes and one of those changes could be how much people value and care about exclusive games correct? This is a societal trait that can change.

 

Far be it of me to strongly hint that the news article title or at least the video title is quite misleading to the actual study that was done. The study itself points out a lack of strong evidence 

 

Be careful of your own confidence in your opinion. Nobody is immune from bias, awareness of that and critical self evaluation of your own opinion is a way to counteract this.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It's not a limit of sample size. Actually watch the video you posted. It's a survey what what aspects/motivations of game play people like and people value Strategy less over time. This is a very poor indicator of intellect. 

 

Nope, you said they don't have games. Got proven wrong then switch to arguing that only exclusives matter.

 

My retort to your premise is and has and will always be exclusives really do not matter much anymore. You even said yourself society changes and one of those changes could be how much people value and care about exclusive games correct? This is a societal trait that can change.

 

Far be it of me to strong hint that the new article title or at least the video title is quite misleading to the actual study that was done. They study itself points out a lack of strong evidence 

Gran Turismo and 2 FF games are worth $450?

 

I guess we know which demographics runs the show now then and it's not the majority.

 

 

You have shown no proof, just your opinion, of which are unsatisfactory.

 

Likes from random members on here don't mean you are right.

 

Fallacy of siding with authority (You are a moderator)

 

 

Twitter - esque dopamine addiction where likes substantiate a win in the eyes of the stupid.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

You have shiown no proof, just your opinion, of which are unsatisfactory.

All we'll get form each other is opinion. Mine is not any better than yours. Like I said we do not have to agree. But it's pretty hard to stand around saying something is a failure and getting people to agree with your opinion when sales data shows the product is selling just fine.

 

8 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

Gran Turismo and 2 FF games are worth $450?

Excuse me but could you at least get the facts of this conversation correct. I only own 2 PS5 games, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and Final Fantasy 16. I have also owned my PS5 for 3 months, you want me to have thrown more money in to games for a console I have barely owned for any significant length of time before I have fully finished playing the ones I do own? This doesn't seem like a good idea, good advance or a good point.

 

Had you not made assumptions and asked some questions and tried to have a more reasonable discussion then you wouldn't have ended up making this rather flawed assumptions diluting your opinion because it doesn't make it appear as if you are putting much real substantive reasoning in to it by doing this.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

All we'll get form each other is opinion. Mine is not any better than yours. Like I said we do not have to agree. But it's pretty hard to stand around saying something is a failure and getting people to agree with your opinion when sales data shows the product is selling just fine.

 

Excuse me but could you at least get the facts of this conversation correct. I only own 2 PS5 games, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth and Final Fantasy 16. I have also own my PS5 for 3 months, you want me to have thrown more money in to games for a console I have barely own for any significant length of time before I have fully finished playing the ones I do own? This doesn't seem like a good idea, good advance or a good point.

 

Had you not made assumptions and asked some questions and tried to have a more reasonable discussion then you wouldn't have ended up making this rather flawed assumptions diluting your opinion because it doesn't make it appear as if you are putting much real substantive reasoning in to it by doing this.

I am not talking about you, 1 person, perhaps that's the issue, you think the universe is you, a bit narcissistic? Power obsessed? I am only asking, I don't know you.

 

I put GT because it is still SONY exclusive but all are on PS4 too, making the PS5 still pointless with a person who wants to save some money.

The point is, PS5 has no games, they are all PS4 made games, only FF, 2 games are now buying power to get a PS5?

 

Reminder, it is 2024 not 2020.

 

 

 

It may as well be no games, are we going to dismiss that tastes are wider and do not incorporate FF to all people?

 

The fact you reasoned that more consoles sold = game satisfaction, when the article I showed you, shows game satisfaction going down hill FOR 10 YEARS.

SONY cutting back.

 

Endless list of complainers on YT speaking about the same situation of no games.

 

PS5 PRO announced... who the F cares?

 

Yet the mountain of evidence is not convincing enough to you?

 

Who here is more arrogant?

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

I am not talking about you, 1 person, perhaps that's the issue, you think the universe is you, a bit narcissistic? Power obsessed? I am only asking, I don't know you.

We are having a discussion between each other and if you are saying those are the only 3 PS5 exclusive games, or games worth buying or something along those lines then I'm afraid you are quite mistaken.

 

Do we need to continue at all because it doesn't seem like you listen to anything I or anyone else has said or read any information that was given to you.

 

You still haven't even made a compelling case as to why exclusive games actually do matter regardless of your error in the number of "exclusive PS5" games that do or do not exist.

 

7 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

consoles sold = game satisfaction

No I did not

 

7 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

PS5 PRO announced... who the F cares?

Seemingly not you which then begs the question why are you persisting in this topic arguing about this?

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

Just now, leadeater said:

We are having a discussion between each other and if you are saying those are the only 3 PS5 exclusive games, or games worth buying or something long those lines then I'm afraid you are quite mistaken.

 

Do we need to continue at all because it doesn't seem like you listen to anything I or anyone else has said or read any information that was given to you.

 

You still haven't even made a compelling case as to why exclusive games actually do matter regardless of your error in the number of "exclusive PS5" games that do or do not exist.

Your counter argument has no evidence to back the words displayed by emotional content, thus the only thing in return is... eh?

 

I am arguing from a consumer stand point and consumers are tired of it, I am not arguing what is in YOUR head.

 

Which is defensive jargon centered around yourself, just like the other projective people who enjoy your monologues.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

21 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

 

Care to explain away the data that shows it's doing fine?

Errr yes you did, PS5 has no games = lack of game satisfaction.

 

You posted console sales.

 

You get more absurd the further we go.

[leadeater]

Just now, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

Your counter argument has no evidence to back the words displayed by emotional content, thus the only thing in return is... eh?

 

I am arguing from a consumer stand point and consumers are tired of it, I am not arguing what is in YOUR head.

 

Which is defensive jargon centered around yourself, just like the other projective people who enjoy your monologues.

There is direct evidence for a very long time that gamers/consumers do not like exclusives. there is direct evidence of this by games becoming cross platform multiplayer and people reacting positively to this.

 

All you have done is linked a few YouTube videos that reinforce your opinion or point of view but it doesn't seem you have done much in the way or critically evaluating it to see how widely held it actually is.

[porina]

15 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

I put GT because it is still SONY exclusive but all are on PS4 too, making the PS5 still pointless with a person who wants to save some money.

The point is, PS5 has no games, they are all PS4 made games, only FF, 2 games are now buying power to get a PS5?

Please correct me if I misunderstand you. Are you saying a platform shouldn't exist because it doesn't have exclusive games?

 

Edit: Gran Turismo 7 is only on the PS5. Is GT7 is on the PS4? Double checking.

 

The series might have been on older consoles, but it doesn't stop at the PS4. It was on the PS3, the PS2 and... my memory isn't sure about going further back than that. GT7 on PS5 does have similarities with the PS4 era ones, but it is not any of the PS4 games. A game series should have similarities otherwise it isn't much of a series.

 

As mentioned before, not everyone owns a gaming PC. A console is an alternative path to access cross platform games. Of current gen, what are the choices? PS5, XBX, XBS. XBS is cheaper, but also the most basic in hardware. Might be too low for some. PS5 vs XBX might be a tougher choice. Those few exclusives can swing it, as well as general platform feel. 

 

15 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

PS5 PRO announced... who the F cares?

Anyone with a PS5 and goes, I wish it was a bit better. Some are serious about console gaming, as some are serious about PC gaming. It wont be for the masses, but that doesn't rule it out from being economically viable.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

There is direct evidence for a very long time that gamers/consumers do not like exclusives. there is direct evidence of this by games becoming cross platform multiplayer and people reacting positively to this.

 

All you have done is linked a few YouTube videos that reinforce your opinion or point of view but it doesn't seem you have done much in the way or critically evaluating it to see how widely held it actually is.

Ok that's a line of thought but it does not explain SONY cutting back and consumers voicing their disatisfaction in droves with PS5.

 

PS4 never had this, so again?

 

Do you understand how trends work? It's not trendy to hate on Playstation for no reason, people are explaining their subjective feelings.

 

All those subjective feelings collectively point towards lack of game satisfaction.

 

 

 

Overwhelming supportive evidence to the argument, yet you keep asking me about an auxilleray argument to the main one which yes exclusives help retain loyalty.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

Errr yes you did, PS5 has no games = lack of game satisfaction.

 

You posted console sales.

 

You get more absurd the further we go.

No you are only twisting thins to what you want.

 

You said the PS5 is a failure, I posted that sales data to show that the PS5 is selling perfectly well not making it a failure.

 

Nowhere at all did I say anything about satisfaction other than if the PS5 was actually bad people would not be buying it as much as they are.

 

Again exclusives are not wanted in the current market, this is not an indicator of satisfaction as you so insist it is.

 

Since you don't want to have a genuine discussion about this you can do so without me.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

No you are only twisting thins to what you want.

 

You said the PS5 is a failure, I posted that sales data to show that the SP5 is selling perfectly well not making it a failure.

 

Nowhere at all did I say anything about satisfaction other than if the PS5 was actually bad people would not be buying it as much as they are.

 

Again exclusives are not wanted in the current market, this is not an indicator of satisfaction as you so insist it is.

 

Since you don't want to have a genuine discussion about this you can do so without me.

I never said it was a failure, I just agree it's a pointless console and so I am pursuing that side of the argument.

 

If you can clap me in the back of the head where my memory has gone bad, then please do proceed to own me with evidence, otherwise it's just another dismissive tactic by you yet again with hyperbolic reasoning.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

18 minutes ago, porina said:

Please correct me if I misunderstand you. Are you saying a platform shouldn't exist because it doesn't have exclusive games?

 

Edit: Gran Turismo 7 is only on the PS5. GT7 is on the PS4? Ok, I need to make some edits!

 

The series might have been on older consoles, but it doesn't stop at the PS4. It was on the PS3, the PS2 and... my memory isn't sure about going further back than that. GT7 on PS5 does have similarities with the PS4 era ones, but it is not any of the PS4 games. A game series should have similarities otherwise it isn't much of a series.

 

As mentioned before, not everyone owns a gaming PC. A console is an alternative path to access cross platform games. Of current gen, what are the choices? PS5, XBX, XBS. XBS is cheaper, but also the most basic in hardware. Might be too low for some. PS5 vs XBX might be a tougher choice. Those few exclusives can swing it, as well as general platform feel. 

 

Anyone with a PS5 and goes, I wish it was a bit better. Some are serious about console gaming, as some are serious about PC gaming. It wont be for the masses, but that doesn't rule it out from being economically viable.

GT SPORT and 7 are on PS4 means the power of buying a PS5 is a lot lesser.

 

We can agree together, I think more powerful hardware is good.

 

But without games = bad.

 

It's possible that I have not made my point clear with the supportive side of my argument, I am viewing from the side of the working class, those that have to work to make ends meet which is becoming a much larger side of humanity, they are not poor, they are not middle class.

 

Prospective understanding from others more abve, they mention 2031 is where we will start to see substantial growth in the middle class rather than anyone under rich being soley workers only with no real quality of life. (See past post on hard times making people motivated and find meaning) This coincides with this view point.

 

You have to understand these are mostly made up of families supporting each other, so this may be parents buying for children and the odd people buying for themselves whom also are working class.

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

But without games = bad.

Since you asked

 

17 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

hen please do proceed to own me with evidence,

 

On 5/20/2024 at 4:56 AM, porina said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_5_games

 

Let's call it over 600 "made for PS5" games. That is a game targeted specifically to run on a PS5, excludes backward compatible games (e.g. PS4), and PSVR2.

 

Why do I say over 600 instead of the 658 mentioned? There's a few TBA/unreleased games in that list, and it is likely there may be the odd error or omission

No games, doesn't seem to be the truth. All you are doing is persisting that exclusive games are only what matters ignoring all the different possible buyers of any potential console and why they are considering buying one and their current situation. Does every person who buys a PS5 have a PS4? No. Does every person who buys a PS5 have any console? Also No.

 

But if we want to specifically focus in on exclusive games you already have my counter point to it, they don't matter like they used to, key thing being used to. I simply do not find tens of videos on YouTube by different people as compelling or overwhelming evidence that they do. Wider market trends are indicating something different to this opinion and while caring about exclusive is a valid opinion, because people can and do have this obviously, that doesn't mean it matters to the global gaming community or is a good way to define the success or value of a current generation console.

 

Nintendo is one of the best counter arguments to my own point about this, something I am well aware of. Console features and games can certainly make that product more compelling and make people choose that over another option. Nintendo is also more unique compared to PlayStation and Xbox being that the games and experiences on those consoles are still extremely exclusive to that while PlayStation and Xbox have had over multiple generations now the same games and the same experiences with a less restrictive game development and release ecosystem meaning actual game developers do not want to limit themselves to one or the other and on the consumer side people do not want to be limited by their choice between the two since the majority of games are available on both and that isn't going to change any time soon.

 

So before anything else give my a well reasoned explanation as to why exclusive games should or do matter and something other than a few YouTube videos if you want to say this is the majority opinion of gamers choosing between PlayStation and Xbox.

[porina]

5 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

GT SPORT and 7 are on PS4 means the power of buying a PS5 is a lot lesser.

Totally missed GT7 was on PS4 also. It was the first game I bought when I got my PS5. Actually, it is the ONLY game I bought on PS5. Even then, PS5 has significant value over PS4. I hate to imagine the loading times and lower graphics on the PS4 version. I still have my PS4 but it is only kept around in case I want to access any physical games as I got the diskless PS5. Can't remember the last time it got switched on. A similar argument could be made for the Pro. If people want more than a standard PS5 gives, it will be an option.

 

5 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

But without games = bad.

You might wonder, why did I get a PS5 if I have only paid for one game so far? Because I do use it for some f2p multi-platform games on my TV. A PC of similar performance would be more expensive. I have one of those too, but it remains for PC only games. I've used the PS5 for Fall Guys, Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail to name a few. I would use it for WOWS too if only the console version wasn't different from PC, which is my main account. And yes, I even use it for PS4 games, since it plays them better than on a PS4. The difference isn't as great as a made for PS5 game but it is worth it for loading times alone.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

So I never said PS5 was a failure, at least you have some integrity. @leadeater

 

Now to deal with the defensive writing.

 

I think having a lack of games = bad. This is the argument I am in pursuit of started by people, not me.

 

What a company does will tell us if it is a failure or not, failure was never mentioned, this is hyperbole from fanboys who are leveraging their emotional ties instead of reasoned logic.

[FireyFoxiconnRageEX]

7 minutes ago, porina said:

Totally missed GT7 was on PS4 also. It was the first game I bought when I got my PS5. Actually, it is the ONLY game I bought on PS5. Even then, PS5 has significant value over PS4. I hate to imagine the loading times and lower graphics on the PS4 version. I still have my PS4 but it is only kept around in case I want to access any physical games as I got the diskless PS5. Can't remember the last time it got switched on. A similar argument could be made for the Pro. If people want more than a standard PS5 gives, it will be an option.

 

You might wonder, why did I get a PS5 if I have only paid for one game so far? Because I do use it for some f2p multi-platform games on my TV. A PC of similar performance would be more expensive. I have one of those too, but it remains for PC only games. I've used the PS5 for Fall Guys, Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail to name a few. I would use it for WOWS too if only the console version wasn't different from PC, which is my main account. And yes, I even use it for PS4 games, since it plays them better than on a PS4. The difference isn't as great as a made for PS5 game but it is worth it for loading times alone.

All here.

 

 

 

Notably things just look a little shinier and brighter on PS5, for a 1080P screen user which there are still many, all things are solid on PS4.

 

Load times are improved but 40 seconds is not the worst.

 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, FireyFoxiconnRageEX said:

I think having a lack of games = bad.

Can we correct this to lack of exclusive games, because your statement is wrong otherwise.