Ryzen 7 7800x3d + G. Skill Flare X5 6000Mhz Ram

[King Prithvi]

I have a Ryzen 7 7800x3d along with MSI B650 S Pro Motherboard and G. Skill Flare X5 6000Mhz CL 36-36-36-96 . Whenever I try to Turn on AMD Expo and set Ram frequency to 6000Mhz the PC does not post and the ezdebug led of CPU and RAM are always on. I would need to reset the BIOS for the PC to boot again at stock speeds. What should I do to fix this?

[RONOTHAN##]

Try to set the memory settings manually, leaving EXPO disabled. Set the memory frequency to 6000MT/s, set the memory voltages to 1.35V, and set the timings to 36-36-36-96 for tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS respectively. Usually that fixes most memory issues. In the rare case that it doesn't, try a different BIOS revision as it might just be that you're on one that has broken memory overclocking. 

[podkall]

40 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Try to set the memory settings manually, leaving EXPO disabled. Set the memory frequency to 6000MT/s, set the memory voltages to 1.35V, and set the timings to 36-36-36-96 for tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS respectively. Usually that fixes most memory issues. In the rare case that it doesn't, try a different BIOS revision as it might just be that you're on one that has broken memory overclocking. 

could memory training kick in when using EXPO and cause this?

[RONOTHAN##]

19 minutes ago, podkall said:

could memory training kick in when using EXPO and cause this?

Memory training needs to happen regardless of whether EXPO is enabled. The system should still boot after it finishes training, and 2x16GB should only take about 30 seconds to train. 

[podkall]

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Memory training needs to happen regardless of whether EXPO is enabled. The system should still boot after it finishes training, and 2x16GB should only take about 30 seconds to train. 

yeah but you're forgetting it's not always as smooth like that, the DRM and CPU LED can go off because of memory training, and turning it off solves these kinds of issues in AM5, if it's caused by it

[RONOTHAN##]

6 minutes ago, podkall said:

yeah but you're forgetting it's not always as smooth like that, the DRM and CPU LED can go off because of memory training, and turning it off solves these kinds of issues in AM5, if it's caused by it

...what? 

 

I think there's a big misunderstanding about what memory training even is here. Memory training is the CPU's memory controller running test patterns with the memory to figure out what a few of the internal memory timings for signaling requirements are. Sometimes you can skip it by just using the values you had run in the past (I.E. Fast Boot on Intel or Memory Context Restore on AMD), but every memory setup needs to do memory training at least initially. It's not that memory training itself causes issues, it only lengthens the amount of time a system takes to boot, and from my experience at least memory training at JEDEC takes the exact same amount of time as at XMP/EXPO, so it's not like OP is just not waiting long enough for memory training to complete, as the amount of time they had to wait for the system to boot after a Clear CMOS should be the amount of time they have to wait now. 

 

What is likely happening here is that the system is failing memory training and getting stuck, which can be for a plethora of reasons. It could be that the BIOS has a bug related to reading EXPO profiles, it could be that EXPO being enabled changes some of the memory training settings, it could be that the BIOS itself has an issue with training at the 6000 memory ratio, or it could just be one of the sticks is faulty. The absolute first thing to check would be to try not running EXPO to remove the motherboard not reading it correctly, then start doing things like reducing the speed until it's functional. 

[podkall]

16 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

...what?

yep:

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

What is likely happening here is that the system is failing memory training and getting stuck, which can be for a plethora of reasons. It could be that the BIOS has a bug related to reading EXPO profiles, it could be that EXPO being enabled changes some of the memory training settings, it could be that the BIOS itself has an issue with training at the 6000 memory ratio, or it could just be one of the sticks is faulty. The absolute first thing to check would be to try not running EXPO to remove the motherboard not reading it correctly, then start doing things like reducing the speed until it's functional.

I mean yeah, but sounds like memory training can be one of the culprits, since it requires collective balance of RAM compatibility, and BIOS compatibility.

 

Which already climbs the edge of the fence the higher clock speed and lower timings you have.

[RONOTHAN##]

3 minutes ago, podkall said:

yep:

 

That situation is completely different. There the system is actually booting with EXPO enabled, so memory context restore works. This is not that situation, the system is not booting, so memory context restore has no values it can restore. "Turning off memory training" is only possible if you already passed training those settings (at least on AMD, on Intel you can actually skip training if you adjust timings or even the memory frequency in some instances, but the actual system stability in those instances goes to hell) because it takes what the internal timings it figured out in the previous training attempt and just assumes them to be functional, so if it doesn't know what those previous values were, it can't skip training. 

 

I'm not arguing that the system is failing memory training, I'm saying that "just turn off memory training" is not how it works, nor how you would want it to work in a situation like this. 

[podkall]

8 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

That situation is completely different. There the system is actually booting with EXPO enabled, so memory context restore works.

that system in post didn't even use EXPO

 

9 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I'm not arguing that the system is failing memory training, I'm saying that "just turn off memory training" is not how it works, nor how you would want it to work in a situation like this. 

my suggestion was never to turn off memory training, my suggestion is always waiting couple of minutes seeing if it boots or if longs boots go away, and if they don't then disable memory training (or perhaps like you mentioned, try updating BIOS)

[RONOTHAN##]

7 minutes ago, podkall said:

my suggestion is always waiting couple of minutes seeing if it boots or if longs boots go away, and if they don't then disable memory training (or perhaps like you mentioned, try updating BIOS)

MSI boards always run the same training settings whether EXPO is enabled or not, so it will take the same amount of time to boot whether it's enabled or not. As long as they're waiting the same amount of time that they originally were when they tried to boot the system, that is enough time to determine if it's failing training or not. 

[Dedayog]

6 hours ago, King Prithvi said:

I have a Ryzen 7 7800x3d along with MSI B650 S Pro Motherboard and G. Skill Flare X5 6000Mhz CL 36-36-36-96 . Whenever I try to Turn on AMD Expo and set Ram frequency to 6000Mhz the PC does not post and the ezdebug led of CPU and RAM are always on. I would need to reset the BIOS for the PC to boot again at stock speeds. What should I do to fix this?

Definitely check your BIOS, as I have the same setup.   My only difference is I went from a 7700X to the 7800X3D, so I as on a later BIOS when I dropped the upgrade in.

 

That's to say I may have already had a stable BIOS for the 7800X3D/6000 combo, and the earlier BIOS' didn't handle it well?  Guessing here.

 

Otherwise you have a larger problem, as that combo should work without any issues.

[King Prithvi]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:37 PM, Dedayog said:

Definitely check your BIOS, as I have the same setup.   My only difference is I went from a 7700X to the 7800X3D, so I as on a later BIOS when I dropped the upgrade in.

 

That's to say I may have already had a stable BIOS for the 7800X3D/6000 combo, and the earlier BIOS' didn't handle it well?  Guessing here.

 

Otherwise you have a larger problem, as that combo should work without any issues.

Thanks guys, it was a BIOS issue updating the BIOS fixed it