Home everything server config help.

[Indian pc builder]

Budget (including currency): 100000INR/ 800 usd (keep in mind budget is subject to change as my parts source here is open to haggling for prices and generally lets them go for less than msrp)

Country:   India 

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Raid 5'd nas for long term accessible low availability storage of data along with a backblaze backup, tp link omada controller, a plex/jellyfin server down the line maybe. Also i plan to back up all the data my family has to it.

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/W6nBt7

I need help with good nas case and whether i have chosen a decent power supply for this type of build.

 

Also the hard drives are all different as they are prospective options for the one i want to use for the computer, the ssd os a placeholder for boot and will most likely be replaced by a cheapo no name i can source locally. 

So which of the hard drives should I use in this case for this purpose? I have also heard something about archival drives and surveillance drives from seagate and wd so are those any good either?

 

Also planning for headless operation on something like a remote desktop or web interface. 

 

This machine is also on a shortlist to run a pfsense VM or something alongside its functions as a nas and maybe a plex server.

 

Based on all of this, does it seem like that the specs are enough or am i missing something?

 

Also it is worth getting a small m.2 instead of a sata for boot so i can save the 6 ports on the board instead of needing to buy a pcie breakout board?

for this I found a 16gb optane drive< which should be a good idea right?

 

[voyager_]

Hardware wise the cpu ram are fine. As far as the drive goes my go to has always been wd reds but it needs to be CMR not smr. SMR drives are much slower. I also avoid seagate when possible. I still have some running but they have given me more problems over the years.

 

As far as the OS choice I would look at something like truenas or Unraid. I prefer unraid for ease of expansion down the road but you do need to pay for it.

 

I wouldn't use raid, Im just assuming here that you are wanting to use hardware raid through the motherboard and I would steer clear of it. Stick to a software version that managed through truenas or unraid. 

 

For your boot drive you will need to also look at the os. Unraid uses a usb stick where others can use a drive. Something to consider is many motherboards will disable sata ports if an m.2 drive is used. For expansion down the road you can always add and HBA card to expand it further. In my servers I use an LSI HBA to connect all drives that will be part of the main pool and use the onboard sata for passing through to vms or unassigned drives.

[Wardus]

What operating system are you planning on using? I suggest Unraid, but there are many good options. Utilizing easy to install docker containers you can install just about anything.

 

Power supply willl be fine.

 

For a case, I haven't found many good options out there. You can find everything from big cubes with 1 fan to rack cases to towers that will hold enough drives to kill a horse. Just find something that fits your build and your space. There are some decent options from Jonsbo, or if you want rack mount Sliger. 

[OddOod]

17 minutes ago, voyager_ said:

I also avoid seagate when possible. I still have some running but they have given me more problems over the years.

I briefly dipped into SG for my arrays and have yet to have a drive die, but those BackBlaze stats are *very* concerning. Hard agree on WD

[Indian pc builder]

48 minutes ago, OddOod said:

I briefly dipped into SG for my arrays and have yet to have a drive die, but those BackBlaze stats are *very* concerning. Hard agree on WD

 

The reason I'm less keen on Wd is that I just had one of their external drives and an internal 2.5 inch sata SSD from them die on me, which is the reason I'm building and backing up this NAS to make sure that shit doesnt happen again.

 

Also i tried looking into the backblaze stats for drive failures and didn't find anything concerning about Seagate so could you please elaborate on that point?

Note: I'm not against WD but and just conducting research for what is the best.

 

 

1 hour ago, voyager_ said:

Hardware wise the cpu ram are fine. As far as the drive goes my go to has always been wd reds but it needs to be CMR not smr. SMR drives are much slower. I also avoid seagate when possible. I still have some running but they have given me more problems over the years.

 

As far as the OS choice I would look at something like truenas or Unraid. I prefer unraid for ease of expansion down the road but you do need to pay for it.

 

I wouldn't use raid, Im just assuming here that you are wanting to use hardware raid through the motherboard and I would steer clear of it. Stick to a software version that managed through truenas or unraid. 

 

For your boot drive you will need to also look at the os. Unraid uses a usb stick where others can use a drive. Something to consider is many motherboards will disable sata ports if an m.2 drive is used. For expansion down the road you can always add and HBA card to expand it further. In my servers I use an LSI HBA to connect all drives that will be part of the main pool and use the onboard sata for passing through to vms or unassigned drives.

 

I made sure everything is CMR, if you do really recommend WD, do you recommend red pro, red plus or anything else, like Seagate EXOS or something?

 

I was planning to use windows so i can use Backblaze PC backup.

 

1 hour ago, Wardus said:

What operating system are you planning on using? I suggest Unraid, but there are many good options. Utilizing easy to install docker containers you can install just about anything.

 

Power supply will be fine.

 

For a case, I haven't found many good options out there. You can find everything from big cubes with 1 fan to rack cases to towers that will hold enough drives to kill a horse. Just find something that fits your build and your space. There are some decent options from Jonsbo, or if you want rack mount Sliger. 

Windows, as everything that I would ever want to run runs on windows. BTW wasn't there seem ai image recognition markup thing that Linus demonstrated in one of the latest videos on their media server things? What was it called and if i want to set it up on the computer, what would i have to do?

 

For the case i was looking into something small like the Jonsbo something or the other but I noticed it only supports an ITX motherboard, which isn't a problem per say but it also has availability issues in India, Jonsbo being a Chinese computer company and all, so, I was wondering if there is an alternative of a slightly bigger size(maybe the size of a mini tower) that has the same abilities including toolless drive swapping as we all know hard drives are basically consumables and they will eventually fail 

[OddOod]

15 minutes ago, Indian pc builder said:

Also i tried looking into the backblaze stats for drive failures and didn't find anything concerning about Seagate so could you please elaborate on that point

I was specifically looking at 14TB drives

[Indian pc builder]

1 minute ago, OddOod said:

I was specifically looking at 14TB drives

thank you, that's actually quite informative, however it puts me in a predicament whether to use my personal experience(I have had seagate as well as WD drives with me as external drives and only the WD one has failed despite being 5 years newer while the Seagate drive still works after I replaced its rusted usb cable, also I had a WD SSD fail on me which is extremely unlucky), or to go with the data from backblaze. If you were in the situation with the same history with the droves for both companies, which one would yo choose?

 

 

 

 

Also when recommending between WD or seagate NAs drives, pls specify whether you mean Iron wolf or Iron Wolf Pro, and WD red pro or red plus.

 

Also what about non nas drives like seagate exos or something else(Pls specify)(I'm ok with other companies as well)

[OddOod]

4 minutes ago, Indian pc builder said:

thank you, that's actually quite informative, however it puts me in a predicament whether to use my personal experience(I have had seagate as well as WD drives with me as external drives and only the WD one has failed despite being 5 years newer while the Seagate drive still works after I replaced its rusted usb cable, also I had a WD SSD fail on me which is extremely unlucky), or to go with the data from backblaze. If you were in the situation with the same history with the droves for both companies, which one would yo choose?

 

 

 

 

Also when recommending between WD or seagate NAs drives, pls specify whether you mean Iron wolf or Iron Wolf Pro, and WD red pro or red plus.

 

Also what about non nas drives like seagate exos or something else(Pls specify)(I'm ok with other companies as well)

Honestly, I still go with whatever's cheap and from a reputable source because I've got RAIDZ1or2, just have slightly increased wariness

[Indian pc builder]

4 hours ago, OddOod said:

Honestly, I still go with whatever's cheap and from a reputable source because I've got RAIDZ1or2, just have slightly increased wariness

Explain RAIDZ1or2

 

also any help on headless windows operation?

[Wardus]

What are your reasons for using Windows? Maybe I'm ignorant, but a dedicated server OS seems like a much better choice. Unraid can be backed up with Backblaze using a docker container mentioned in this Reddit thread. An unraid machine will be more functional, more reliable, and safer for your data than a Windows server. It's also specifically designed for this purpose. It can run Pi-hole, backup services, or even run your AI models without the OS itself taking up much CPU power when idle. It's also more storage efficient then most raid systems.

[OddOod]

19 hours ago, Indian pc builder said:

Explain RAIDZ1or2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#ZFS's_approach:_RAID-Z_and_mirroring
Basically RAIDZx is a ZFS storage solution which allows x drive failures. I (dumbly) use RAIDZ1 for my primary array so I can get a sweet sweet nominal 200TB of storage

 

23 hours ago, Indian pc builder said:

I was planning to use windows so i can use Backblaze PC backup.

 

oooof, I see why you'd want to do this, but Windows is really not a great option for mass storage. There are reasons it's not widely used. 
I looked into using BB to backup my NAS, but the instability wasn't worth the savings. I just use gDrive to backup the really important stuff and have another array locally that is the full backup

[Indian pc builder]

3 hours ago, Wardus said:

What are your reasons for using Windows? Maybe I'm ignorant, but a dedicated server OS seems like a much better choice. Unraid can be backed up with Backblaze using a docker container mentioned in this Reddit thread. An unraid machine will be more functional, more reliable, and safer for your data than a Windows server. It's also specifically designed for this purpose. It can run Pi-hole, backup services, or even run your AI models without the OS itself taking up much CPU power when idle. It's also more storage efficient then most raid systems.

wait, so does this mean i can get unlimited backup when using UNRAID? U are not ignorant, I'm a fool.

I checked, with a bit of docker, I may be able to get Omada and jellyfi working on unraid, so that is no longer a barrier, but I have to ask, how does Unraid work? Could you direct me to the resources I may need?

 

Also, could it be possible to dual boot or have a OPNsense/Pfsense VM running at the same time on this machine? Would i have to relook at the specs or would i have to do something different? The only reason I need an OMADA controller on this machine is that I want to have a load balancing router set up for my 2 isps and am too cheap to give out a 100usd for a dedicated controller so was hoping i could virtualise it on this machine. If i could have a PFsense thing running on it at the same time then there is no faffing about with Omada on unraid through Docker.

 

 

Also i have no idea how Linux OS's work in general as i have always used windows and never strayed into any other OS other than mac(which i despise), so that would actually be a fun project to learn.

 

 

Also new issue,  Unraid is expensive, when compared to what I'm used to which is 30usd for a windows key where it is 250 for a lifetime update Unraid key. I mean, even though it is justifiable as a perpetual license and not a much higher subscription like backblaze b2 which i would need to use if I got truenas, It definitely pushes me towards windows which also raises the question about things like atlas os and tiny11

 

Also side note: is an i5 13400 fast enough to run ai image recognition captioning things like the one linus used in one of his recent whonnock/vault videos at all? Should i look into getting a low end old nvidia gpu with nvenc as part of the jellyfin server requirement as well(though the maximum i will ever have streamking at one is 2 devices and everything already works on h.264)

2 hours ago, OddOod said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#ZFS's_approach:_RAID-Z_and_mirroring
Basically RAIDZx is a ZFS storage solution which allows x drive failures. I (dumbly) use RAIDZ1 for my primary array so I can get a sweet sweet nominal 200TB of storage

 

oooof, I see why you'd want to do this, but Windows is really not a great option for mass storage. There are reasons it's not widely used. 
I looked into using BB to backup my NAS, but the instability wasn't worth the savings. I just use gDrive to backup the really important stuff and have another array locally that is the full backup

What do you mean instability?

[OddOod]

1 hour ago, Indian pc builder said:

What do you mean instability?

In the past 7 years, between MDADM on Ubuntu and TrueNAS, I have never had nor needed a shutdown except during power outages. (sadly my UPS can only last 60 minutes and it takes the power company 75min to remove a chipmunk from the switch and restart the power)
I've rarely had a windows machine last more than three months before requiring a reboot. Plus trying to lock down Windows so it doesn't do updates and stuff is a nightmare game of whackamole

 

[Indian pc builder]

14 hours ago, Indian pc builder said:

wait, so does this mean i can get unlimited backup when using UNRAID? U are not ignorant, I'm a fool.

I checked, with a bit of docker, I may be able to get Omada and jellyfi working on unraid, so that is no longer a barrier, but I have to ask, how does Unraid work? Could you direct me to the resources I may need?

 

Also, could it be possible to dual boot or have a OPNsense/Pfsense VM running at the same time on this machine? Would i have to relook at the specs or would i have to do something different? The only reason I need an OMADA controller on this machine is that I want to have a load balancing router set up for my 2 isps and am too cheap to give out a 100usd for a dedicated controller so was hoping i could virtualise it on this machine. If i could have a PFsense thing running on it at the same time then there is no faffing about with Omada on unraid through Docker.

 

 

Also i have no idea how Linux OS's work in general as i have always used windows and never strayed into any other OS other than mac(which i despise), so that would actually be a fun project to learn.

 

 

Also new issue,  Unraid is expensive, when compared to what I'm used to which is 30usd for a windows key where it is 250 for a lifetime update Unraid key. I mean, even though it is justifiable as a perpetual license and not a much higher subscription like backblaze b2 which i would need to use if I got truenas, It definitely pushes me towards windows which also raises the question about things like atlas os and tiny11

 

Also side note: is an i5 13400 fast enough to run ai image recognition captioning things like the one linus used in one of his recent whonnock/vault videos at all? Should i look into getting a low end old nvidia gpu with nvenc as part of the jellyfin server requirement as well(though the maximum i will ever have streamking at one is 2 devices and everything already works on h.264)

What do you mean instability?

@Wardus ?

[Hellowpplz]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:56 AM, Indian pc builder said:

@Wardus ?

So is this the nas in your new post

[Indian pc builder]

2 hours ago, Hellowpplz said:

So is this the nas in your new post

Yes, as you can see I have multiple questions from the reply about backblaze on Linux 

[Wardus]

On 4/3/2024 at 1:09 PM, Indian pc builder said:

wait, so does this mean i can get unlimited backup when using UNRAID? U are not ignorant, I'm a fool.

I checked, with a bit of docker, I may be able to get Omada and jellyfi working on unraid, so that is no longer a barrier, but I have to ask, how does Unraid work? Could you direct me to the resources I may need?

According to the Reddit thread I found, yes, you can get unlimited backup. I would do your own research on that just to verify and make sure everything works for your use case. Unraid uses a system too complicated for me to understand but essentially it uses 1 of your drives as a parity disk so that it can rebuild data from any lost drive using what it still has. This system is more space-efficient then traditional raid arrays. This parity drive has to be equal to or larger than every other drive in the array.

 

In terms of resources, there are a lot of good blogs and YouTube videos out there. SpaceInvaderOne is usually my goto, but if you do some research you can easily find someone's tutorials that will help you out. If you have specific questions, there is an Unraid forum that is in my experience very helpful. For someone decently tech savvy, it's a pretty simple thing to set up. the OS runs on a USB drive, not SAS or SATA. It also supports redundant cache pools if you want to create a hybrid system for extra speed. 

 

On 4/3/2024 at 1:09 PM, Indian pc builder said:

Also, could it be possible to dual boot or have a OPNsense/Pfsense VM running at the same time on this machine? Would i have to relook at the specs or would i have to do something different? The only reason I need an OMADA controller on this machine is that I want to have a load balancing router set up for my 2 isps and am too cheap to give out a 100usd for a dedicated controller so was hoping i could virtualise it on this machine. If i could have a PFsense thing running on it at the same time then there is no faffing about with Omada on unraid through Docker.

This is not my area of expertise. You could run it on that hardware pretty easily, but idk how to set it up. It's possible to do that in a docker too I think, but VM's would be more straightforward. I suggest an online tutorial. A side note, Docker is possibly the easiest part of Unraid. Sometimes I accidentally brick it, but it's pretty easy to get going again. Very little faffing about in my experience :).

 

On 4/3/2024 at 1:09 PM, Indian pc builder said:

Also new issue,  Unraid is expensive, when compared to what I'm used to which is 30usd for a windows key where it is 250 for a lifetime update Unraid key. I mean, even though it is justifiable as a perpetual license and not a much higher subscription like backblaze b2 which i would need to use if I got truenas, It definitely pushes me towards windows which also raises the question about things like atlas os and tiny11

 

Also side note: is an i5 13400 fast enough to run ai image recognition captioning things like the one linus used in one of his recent whonnock/vault videos at all? Should i look into getting a low end old nvidia gpu with nvenc as part of the jellyfin server requirement as well(though the maximum i will ever have streamking at one is 2 devices and everything already works on h.264)

Ah. This is an issue. The last time I looked at their pricing structure, the system was very different. one year of updates sucks. I would check out the free trial to see if all your stuff works and then purchase the license for 49 USD. Idk where to go from there though. That CPU should be fine. It will take a while though and a GPU would massively help. I run LLMS on an old AMD CPU and the integrated GPU is slow as balls.

 

I hope this helps!

[OddOod]

3 hours ago, Wardus said:

The last time I looked at their pricing structure, the system was very different.

Same. WTF? What happened to "Buy Once, Use for Life."?

[Indian pc builder]

17 hours ago, OddOod said:

Same. WTF? What happened to "Buy Once, Use for Life."?

i mean, it is still a one time cost?

also truenas core?

21 hours ago, Wardus said:

According to the Reddit thread I found, yes, you can get unlimited backup. I would do your own research on that just to verify and make sure everything works for your use case. Unraid uses a system too complicated for me to understand but essentially it uses 1 of your drives as a parity disk so that it can rebuild data from any lost drive using what it still has. This system is more space-efficient then traditional raid arrays. This parity drive has to be equal to or larger than every other drive in the array.

 

In terms of resources, there are a lot of good blogs and YouTube videos out there. SpaceInvaderOne is usually my goto, but if you do some research you can easily find someone's tutorials that will help you out. If you have specific questions, there is an Unraid forum that is in my experience very helpful. For someone decently tech savvy, it's a pretty simple thing to set up. the OS runs on a USB drive, not SAS or SATA. It also supports redundant cache pools if you want to create a hybrid system for extra speed. 

 

This is not my area of expertise. You could run it on that hardware pretty easily, but idk how to set it up. It's possible to do that in a docker too I think, but VM's would be more straightforward. I suggest an online tutorial. A side note, Docker is possibly the easiest part of Unraid. Sometimes I accidentally brick it, but it's pretty easy to get going again. Very little faffing about in my experience :).

 

Ah. This is an issue. The last time I looked at their pricing structure, the system was very different. one year of updates sucks. I would check out the free trial to see if all your stuff works and then purchase the license for 49 USD. Idk where to go from there though. That CPU should be fine. It will take a while though and a GPU would massively help. I run LLMS on an old AMD CPU and the integrated GPU is slow as balls.

 

I hope this helps!

if i'm not running llms and just using at as a router/nas/plex server, and i'm not running any llms and ai things, and the plex server wouldn't need to transcode on the fly I should be fine without a gpu,right? 

also if i do need one, would a 3050 cut it or would i need something faster? 

[Wardus]

8 hours ago, Indian pc builder said:

i mean, it is still a one time cost?

also truenas core?

if i'm not running llms and just using at as a router/nas/plex server, and i'm not running any llms and ai things, and the plex server wouldn't need to transcode on the fly I should be fine without a gpu,right? 

also if i do need one, would a 3050 cut it or would i need something faster? 

Well in any system you will always need a GPU to get a video out during setup and troubleshooting, but a lot of CPU's nowadays have iGPUs built right in. This includes the 13400 you mentioned. You should be good without a dedicated card.

[Indian pc builder]

10 hours ago, Wardus said:

Well in any system you will always need a GPU to get a video out during setup and troubleshooting, but a lot of CPU's nowadays have iGPUs built right in. This includes the 13400 you mentioned. You should be good without a dedicated card.

Final question before I buy the parts: unraid or truenas core?

[OddOod]

Given the limited scope of your build (just storage and plexyfin), I'd go with Truenas because it's free.
We wait in hope that Linus' angel investment pays off

[Wardus]

I've never used Truenas, so all the opinion I can give is that Unraid is really good, expandable, tinkerable, and mostly reliable. I think that LTT did a couple videos on one vs the other, and I'm sure there are other creators who have too.

[Indian pc builder]

4 hours ago, OddOod said:

Given the limited scope of your build (just storage and plexyfin), I'd go with Truenas because it's free.
We wait in hope that Linus' angel investment pays off

I know but I also want to run back blaze pc backup and perhaps a pfsense vm or an Omada virtual controller. Truenas may be less convenient for that

[OddOod]

10 hours ago, Indian pc builder said:

I know but I also want to run back blaze pc backup and perhaps a pfsense vm or an Omada virtual controller. Truenas may be less convenient for that

So make your decision. You have all the information and you're the ONLY one who this matters to. Whatever you decide there will be downsides.