MacBook Pro/Air Base Model vs Upgraded

[keavlar]

Hey all. 
I am new to MacBook stuff.

I would appreciate if someone could help me to understand, so I could decide what to get. 

 

I wanna get my self a Pro, so that it would serve me for years to come. 
My future usage is: 

coding

web serfing

maybe latter video editing something not that hard 

 

what I want to understand, is if the base 8GB and 256 really not good enough ? 

Bigger better at some points, but do I really need that upgrade. 

If I could compare it in performance to my 5800X on samsung 980 pro ssd, with 16 GB ram  who would win ?

 

I was told that the Apple 8gb is equalent of 16 gb for the normal pc ?! 

 

[thevictor390]

The issue is, if in the future you want the upgrade, you can't do it. So better to plan ahead.

Apple PCs use memory the same as any other PC, there is no "equivalent," it just comes down to how much you actually use in your day to day tasks. Coding can use a lot or a little depending on what you are doing, video editing usually uses a decent amount. I'd just go for 16 and not have to worry about it. 8 GB on a "Pro" machine is a really unfortunately choice on their end. The only kernel of truth here is MacOS probably uses a bit less memory baseline than Windows but that is not an 8 GB difference.

Processor wise, your 5800X is theoretically stronger than the M3 Pro but not by a lot, it will probably feel pretty similar unless you are really pushing it.

[DripplessNewt]

The problem with the base model is the practicality. Yes it will technically do most things fine, it wont be good at higher demanding things. Think of it like trying to run modern windows on 4gb of ram. Did it turn on? Yes. Are you going to be able to do anything but basic word processing and browsing on it? Not really. The way MacOS uses ram is better than windows, but not 8gb better. It may be more like 10 gb in the best case, but thats very hopeful. 

As for storage, 256 is just so low in modern standards. That is before format, which cuts up to 10gb off.  I currently have 90gbs of "System Data" and "MacOs" on my M1 air. That 256 is suddenly 150gb. Now its not likely you will have that 90gbs of stuff right away, this is after 3 years of daily use and updates, but it wont be zero. I dont know how large coding projects get, but that could become an issue for you quickly. Having lived with an 8gb/256gb configuration, I wouldnt do it again. 

The 5800x and M3 Pro will both perform fine. The 5800x is desktop so the odds of it doing better in a benchmark are there, but I would guess they are within 20% at worst. 

My best advice: Shop from apple refurbished (or if you are okay with other sellers, even more savings). You can find slightly used macbooks for a decent savings that come with the same warranty and new battery as one you get from the apple store. 

[keavlar]

17 hours ago, DripplessNewt said:

The problem with the base model is the practicality. Yes it will technically do most things fine, it wont be good at higher demanding things. Think of it like trying to run modern windows on 4gb of ram. Did it turn on? Yes. Are you going to be able to do anything but basic word processing and browsing on it? Not really. The way MacOS uses ram is better than windows, but not 8gb better. It may be more like 10 gb in the best case, but thats very hopeful. 

As for storage, 256 is just so low in modern standards. That is before format, which cuts up to 10gb off.  I currently have 90gbs of "System Data" and "MacOs" on my M1 air. That 256 is suddenly 150gb. Now its not likely you will have that 90gbs of stuff right away, this is after 3 years of daily use and updates, but it wont be zero. I dont know how large coding projects get, but that could become an issue for you quickly. Having lived with an 8gb/256gb configuration, I wouldnt do it again. 

The 5800x and M3 Pro will both perform fine. The 5800x is desktop so the odds of it doing better in a benchmark are there, but I would guess they are within 20% at worst. 

My best advice: Shop from apple refurbished (or if you are okay with other sellers, even more savings). You can find slightly used macbooks for a decent savings that come with the same warranty and new battery as one you get from the apple store. 

Thanks

[keavlar]

17 hours ago, DripplessNewt said:

The problem with the base model is the practicality. Yes it will technically do most things fine, it wont be good at higher demanding things. Think of it like trying to run modern windows on 4gb of ram. Did it turn on? Yes. Are you going to be able to do anything but basic word processing and browsing on it? Not really. The way MacOS uses ram is better than windows, but not 8gb better. It may be more like 10 gb in the best case, but thats very hopeful. 

As for storage, 256 is just so low in modern standards. That is before format, which cuts up to 10gb off.  I currently have 90gbs of "System Data" and "MacOs" on my M1 air. That 256 is suddenly 150gb. Now its not likely you will have that 90gbs of stuff right away, this is after 3 years of daily use and updates, but it wont be zero. I dont know how large coding projects get, but that could become an issue for you quickly. Having lived with an 8gb/256gb configuration, I wouldnt do it again. 

The 5800x and M3 Pro will both perform fine. The 5800x is desktop so the odds of it doing better in a benchmark are there, but I would guess they are within 20% at worst. 

My best advice: Shop from apple refurbished (or if you are okay with other sellers, even more savings). You can find slightly used macbooks for a decent savings that come with the same warranty and new battery as one you get from the apple store. 

Thanks

[seanondemand]

For normal everyday stuff, 8gb goes pretty far on an m series Mac - they’re very efficient with memory for everyday apps, browser tabs, that kind of thing. For coding, it’s just not enough, especially considering future needs. A 16gb one should be your target. 

[Spindel]

I have a M1 Mac Mini and I opted to go for 16 GB RAM and 512 GB storage.

 

In 90 % of what I do 8 GB would probably be enough also since the SSD is fast enough when swapping for most things. But of the rest 10 % it is nice to have 16 GB.

 

I went with 512 GB because I need/want some storage space for the apps I use. But in my case most of the heavy lifting with large files (photos, music, videos etc) is handled by my NAS so I don't see the need for loads of storage on the device itself. In my case, since I run a Mac Mini (desktop) also getting an external thunderbolt/usb4 drive if I wanted extra storage wouldn't be a big deal.

 

Performance wise the M-series of SoC (non pro/max/ultra)) will be about the same in single threaded performance (with quiet some variance depending on the exact task) sometimes a fair bit faster other times a bit slower, in general it will be a bit slower in multi core tasks that use up all cores simply because the 5800X has more full speed cores. On the other hand you are comparing a 15-30* W chip to a 100+ W chip (the M-series being the lower one).  

 

*30 W if you also run the iGPU at full at the same time as running all core load

[rikitikitavi]

On 3/25/2024 at 3:07 AM, keavlar said:

I was told that the Apple 8gb is equalent of 16 gb for the normal pc ?! 

Yes and no: macos can get away with less RAM due to handling it differently, and in certain tasks macos 8GB v windows 16GB example will perform similar. Apple SoC vs AMD/Intel also contributes to this notion. But still, 8GB =/= 16 GB.

 

On 3/25/2024 at 3:07 AM, keavlar said:

If I could compare it in performance to my 5800X on samsung 980 pro ssd, with 16 GB ram  who would win ?

No idea, one of them might be superior, or they might be exchanging punches. Anyway it is not always about raw performance, but usage... so I assume it is task specific in this case and depends if you compare it with a base M# or the latest and the beefiest one.

 

On 3/25/2024 at 3:07 AM, keavlar said:

My future usage is: 

coding

web serfing

maybe latter video editing something not that hard 

 

what I want to understand, is if the base 8GB and 256 really not good enough ? 

You have given no specifics, so... I'll assume a load similar to a CS student.

 

You can get away with a used 2020 Air M1 8GB 256GB.

Web surfing - same.

Low key video edition - same.

 

Can/do professional programmers use such machine - yes, depending on their work.

 

Would this machine be suggested in general - No. You'll need more RAM - because you'll might need to run nn multitude of apps/services/vms at the same time. You'll need more storage - plugins, vms, libraries will fill up your 256GB fast, but unlike RAM, you can add cheap external storage.

 

16GB and 512GB will be a safe bet.

 

On 3/25/2024 at 3:07 AM, keavlar said:

I wanna get my self a Pro, so that it would serve me for years to come. 

Pro will not necessarily outlast Air.

 

If we start with the base Pro (same M# as in Air) - the only difference in performance are the fans that help prevent thermal throttling. However, this might not matter because a lot of coding is just a lot of reading, thinking and typing, and then some short bursts of compilation (especially in the beginning). The price jump here is very significant - you are basically paying for the screen/sound/ports, and they might not matter to you at all.

 

Next step Pro has M# Pro which has more cores and 16GB/512GB starting point. Depending on the deal you'll find it might cost the same as the Air with the upgrades, the deal being an older gen M1 Pro, most probably. However, performance-wise you might not perceive any benefits of M# Pro if your usage is still very light.

 

Given that long term usually means that usage changes... still, this does not mean that Pro M# Pro is a better purchase than an upgraded Air in every single case.

 

...

 

- get a certified refurbished previous gen - save a buck and enjoy practically a new machine.

- to get the best of macos - don't apply windows logic to it, learn how it works, learn terminal, learn shortcuts and gestures, get used to the touchpad and you won't want to use a mouse for anything but gaming (do not game on a mac).

- if you are planning to use it instead of a desktop - get a mac mini.

- if you are getting a mac as a dedicated general purpose dev machine - install a linux distro on your current desktop it will be way cheaper.

- if you are a student - get the Air 16/512 due to its superb portability. Going from class to class, finishing h/w in a cafeteria, trying to prep while sitting on a loan - nothing beats it... well iPad does, but definitely not for CS (you can technically be constantly remoting into your dev machine, but this is a huge pain in the b***).