Started on planning a new Ryzen build and got stuck on cooling... wut do?

[ig8uh8m8]

So i'm jumping ship between intel and amd on my main gaming rig and am looking to slap together something packing a 8 core cpu.

 

I was glazing over the packaging contents of the msi MAG m360 AIO and noticed it didn't come with a controller and given my choice of case (jonesbo D31 mesh screen w/LCD panel) that obviously didn't come with one also.

 

my questions:

What would be a suitable controller for this machine? should i be running two controllers?

Should I be running one taking signal for the case from the motherboard and the other driving the pump/fans on radiator?

should i be changing any of the currently planned orientations so that i draw more air in?

 

I'll be running the radiator (3 fans) in push/exhaust config, bottom (3 fans) as intake, rear (1 fan) as exhaust, front (1 fan) as intake at present, so i am of the mind that i would need two controllers, one driving the case fans, the other driving the 3 mounted to the radiator.

 

This is my first serious watercooling system so i'm completely lost as to how i should be handling this. Send help. I'd have solved this problem with a Razer controller in one foul swoop but NOPE, as those old folks be sayin', "they don't make 'em like they used to"

 

This build's specs for nerds:

Motherboard:

MSI MAG B550M PRO-VDH WIFI mATX w/MS-4136 tpm2.0 module

CPU:

yet to be decided, 8 core minimum (taking recommendations, leaning on the 5700x)

Cooling (CPU):

MSI MAG Coreliquid M360 AIO 360mm

Cooling (Case):

Silverstone VISTA 120 120mm PWM (5x)

Ram:

G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 Desktop RAM Kit - Black 2x 16GB

SSDs:

2x Crucial P3 500GB NVMe M.2 (Dual boot, Ubuntu/Windows 11)

Crucial BX500 1TB 2.5" (Game Storage)

GPU:

yet to be decided, no less than 8gb ram (taking recommendations, leaning on the RTX 3060)

PSU:

Cooler Master MWE Gold 850W 80+gold

[ki8aras]

why do you need a fan controller that bad?
i get what you're saying but they are not that important these days unless you NEED per-fan control
(at leat thats MO with my somewhat limited cooling knowledge)

[ig8uh8m8]

4 minutes ago, ki8aras said:

why do you need a fan controller that bad?
i get what you're saying but they are not that important these days unless you NEED per-fan control
(at leat thats MO with my somewhat limited cooling knowledge)

not enough connectors on the motherboard to drive 8 fans, and don't want my office sounding like a f***ing tornado lol (talking shit about my i7 3770 build involving a Corsair Hydro Series H5 SF)

[PDifolco]

23 minutes ago, ig8uh8m8 said:

not enough connectors on the motherboard to drive 8 fans, and don't want my office sounding like a f***ing tornado lol (talking shit about my i7 3770 build involving a Corsair Hydro Series H5 SF)

You don't need that many fans neither...the more fans you have the more noise you'd get

Really I won't buy a $120 AIO, a controller and ton of fans  for a $150 CPU ...  

You'd rather go for a better case and a good aircooler (TR PA/PS)

[ki8aras]

2 hours ago, ig8uh8m8 said:

not enough connectors on the motherboard to drive 8 fans, and don't want my office sounding like a f***ing tornado lol (talking shit about my i7 3770 build involving a Corsair Hydro Series H5 SF)

fan splitters are a thing that exists!, also as @PDifolco said, no need for so many fans
(last thing, with the fans set up the way you said in the original post, you would have neutral air pressure, which isnt the best config)

[ig8uh8m8]

On 12/19/2023 at 1:29 AM, ki8aras said:

fan splitters are a thing that exists!, also as @PDifolco said, no need for so many fans
(last thing, with the fans set up the way you said in the original post, you would have neutral air pressure, which isnt the best config)

I would hope that depends on the settings involved but considering the case is basically mesh from top, bottom, front and rear, neutral pressure would be a non issue. i was thinking both the front and rear fans would run off of one header, and the remaining 3 along the bottom on another. i'm aware of fan splitters being a thing, however i'm thinking of grabbing a corsair fan controller to set custom fan curves for different use case scenarios with the system up and running instead of fiddling with the curve settings in the BIOS. that way if temps fire up, I'll have the fans slam on high. I'm in new zealand so during the summer depending on where you are, things get HOT so i felt it important that moving air with the components that are being used.

 

I decided to switch cpus and go for the 5800/x depending on cashflow in april.

Edited December 31, 2023 by ig8uh8m8
misspelled "case" in the first line.

[ig8uh8m8]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:40 PM, PDifolco said:

You don't need that many fans neither...the more fans you have the more noise you'd get

Really I won't buy a $120 AIO, a controller and ton of fans  for a $150 CPU ...  

You'd rather go for a better case and a good aircooler (TR PA/PS)

In my circle of friends i have a reputation for overkill. my aim with the fan setup given the case's ability to breathe fairly easily was to move as much air as possible.

[PDifolco]

8 hours ago, ig8uh8m8 said:

In my circle of friends i have a reputation for overkill. my aim with the fan setup given the case's ability to breathe fairly easily was to move as much air as possible.

But you end up with an "underkill" CPU then... 

[RevGAM]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:40 AM, PDifolco said:

You don't need that many fans neither...the more fans you have the more noise you'd get

Really I won't buy a $120 AIO, a controller and ton of fans  for a $150 CPU ...  

You'd rather go for a better case and a good aircooler (TR PA/PS)

How much noise you get is highly dependent on various factors, including:

• CPU settings
• Fan curves
• Loads
• Fan configuration
• Other settings and software

Also,  the FS140 beats the PA/PS in most scenarios. 

[RevGAM]

On 12/18/2023 at 7:29 AM, ki8aras said:

fan splitters are a thing that exists!, also as @PDifolco said, no need for so many fans
(last thing, with the fans set up the way you said in the original post, you would have neutral air pressure, which isnt the best config)

Which pressure is best depends on the particular PC. In this case, because of filtration on the intake fans and the rad will affect airflow. Given that mesh filters don't strongly impact fans but rads do, this could actually be slightly positive. However, it depends on the AF and SP of all of the fans, and the fan curves. 

 

@ig8uh8m8 as has been suggested, if you're running the fans as described, all you really need are two splitters. 

[LOST TALE]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:40 AM, PDifolco said:

You don't need that many fans neither...the more fans you have the more noise you'd get

Really I won't buy a $120 AIO, a controller and ton of fans  for a $150 CPU ...  

You'd rather go for a better case and a good aircooler (TR PA/PS)

actually, I'm sure more fans allows you to get more cfm/ dba level. 

[PDifolco]

4 minutes ago, LOST TALE said:

actually, I'm sure more fans allows you to get more cfm/ dba level. 

Many fans at lower speed get more CFM than less fans at higher speed, but static pressure won't be good 

[LOST TALE]

4 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Many fans at lower speed get more CFM than less fans at higher speed, but static pressure won't be good 

anyway I think adding more fans of the same noise level barely increases noise given the exponential nature of dba perceived volume

[PDifolco]

1 hour ago, LOST TALE said:

anyway I think adding more fans of the same noise level barely increases noise given the exponential nature of dba perceived volume

Maybe but it's kinda useless, you don't need many fans at low usage and at high usage you need them to spin faster, ruining the noise level...

[ig8uh8m8]

On 12/31/2023 at 10:59 PM, PDifolco said:

But you end up with an "underkill" CPU then... 

overkill on a budget. where i live, multi-ssd rigs are scarce, and tend to be fawned over. with a couple of crucial p3s or kingston nv2 nvme ssds and a couple of crucial bx500 sata drives, the 5700x i mentioned, 64gb ram and a 12gb 3060 oc, given that this pc will be hooked up to a 21" (1920x1080) tv and xbox controller, i don't think there will be any trouble. hence the opinion of it being overkill. the intention is to crap on any console i come across.

[ig8uh8m8]

Also worth noting that idgaf about noise level. as for the pressure i doubt i would see positive pressure except for low load situations. the two splitter solution has been actioned, bought and paid for.

[PDifolco]

2 hours ago, ig8uh8m8 said:

overkill on a budget. where i live, multi-ssd rigs are scarce, and tend to be fawned over. with a couple of crucial p3s or kingston nv2 nvme ssds and a couple of crucial bx500 sata drives, the 5700x i mentioned, 64gb ram and a 12gb 3060 oc, given that this pc will be hooked up to a 21" (1920x1080) tv and xbox controller, i don't think there will be any trouble. hence the opinion of it being overkill. the intention is to crap on any console i come across.

Overkill cooling is just useless, any good aircooler will allow you to push your 5700x to max performance and will last longer

[RevGAM]

13 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Overkill cooling is just useless, any good aircooler will allow you to push your 5700x to max performance and will last longer

My friend, how do you define "overkill cooling"? How do you know when that extra cooling is no longer contributing to improved performance? Also, there is no downside to overkill cooling, and that cooler can probably be used on the next CPU you buy, so it's not a bad thing that I know of. Please explain.

[PDifolco]

52 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

My friend, how do you define "overkill cooling"? How do you know when that extra cooling is no longer contributing to improved performance? Also, there is no downside to overkill cooling, and that cooler can probably be used on the next CPU you buy, so it's not a bad thing that I know of. Please explain.

Simple : a given CPU will have a max power 50W to 300W+

As soon as your cooler can stand the max power for prolonged time at less than TJMax (let even give 10C margin if you want, so around 80C) and at a a noise level you're ok with, you don't need anything more

Good aircoolers can withstand up to 200W, good AIO 300W+, so only super high draw CPUs like i7/i9 really need an AIO

Only real advantage of an AIO at lower PPT is potentially lower noise levels (depends on fans tho)

Then about longevity an aircooler lasts eternally, an AIO only 5yrs or so max dut o pump wear, clogging, etc.., so "future proofing" isn't an argument

[Madmaximus01]

How about this? - yes it's my setup 

[RevGAM]

4 hours ago, PDifolco said:

Simple : a given CPU will have a max power 50W to 300W+

As soon as your cooler can stand the max power for prolonged time at less than TJMax (let even give 10C margin if you want, so around 80C) and at a a noise level you're ok with, you don't need anything more

Good aircoolers can withstand up to 200W, good AIO 300W+, so only super high draw CPUs like i7/i9 really need an AIO

Only real advantage of an AIO at lower PPT is potentially lower noise levels (depends on fans tho)

Then about longevity an aircooler lasts eternally, an AIO only 5yrs or so max dut o pump wear, clogging, etc.., so "future proofing" isn't an argument

I think you've forgotten that the larger the heatsink of an aircooler, the more heat it can absorb and, thus, the easier it is to control temps. This means that fans won't have to work as hard, resulting in lower temps. So, that's one reason for "overkill"...if noise matters to you. I mean, I suppose if someone wanted to strap a 100W cooler on a 300W CPU and put a 300 CFM fan on it, knowing that it'd be blowing like a tornado, that's their choice, but most people seem to want quietness, sooo....

As for AIOs, 5 years is the AVERAGE, not the max, and there are people on here with AIOs still going after 10 years. Only for i7/i9? I guess it depends which gen. My i7-12700k doesn't seem to need a top-tier cooler - the U12A does fine.

 

Future-proofing IS an argument if you want longevity out of what you buy and, thus, save money. Just because people here argue that there is no such thing doesn't mean there is no such thing - it just means they're short-sighted, or maybe they need to have the best tech every year. If someone has that much disposable income, go for it. Myself and many other people, however, cannot afford to keep upgrading things to stay at the forefront of leading/bleeding edge tech, so I'd rather keep the same computer for 10 years than waste money every year. So, I build/buy the best I can afford and keep it until it gets unbearable. Lots of people do that. To tell them that they're doing something "wrong" because they use a phrase that some people don't understand is doing them a dis-service, my friend.

 

Unless, of course, you're going to pay for their computer.

Putting it another way, which would you rather have:

• a computer that you paid a modest sum for that can get what you need to do done, but can't properly handle what you WANT to do, leading to wasted time, lost games and frustration, or
• a computer that you invested as much as you could afford, that ran everything well and never let you down for years on end? That's future-proofing.

And let's not forget that there are serviceable AIOs.

[PDifolco]

4 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

I think you've forgotten that the larger the heatsink of an aircooler, the more heat it can absorb and, thus, the easier it is to control temps. This means that fans won't have to work as hard, resulting in lower temps. So, that's one reason for "overkill"...if noise matters to you. I mean, I suppose if someone wanted to strap a 100W cooler on a 300W CPU and put a 300 CFM fan on it, knowing that it'd be blowing like a tornado, that's their choice, but most people seem to want quietness, sooo....

As for AIOs, 5 years is the AVERAGE, not the max, and there are people on here with AIOs still going after 10 years. Only for i7/i9? I guess it depends which gen. My i7-12700k doesn't seem to need a top-tier cooler - the U12A does fine.

 

Future-proofing IS an argument if you want longevity out of what you buy and, thus, save money. Just because people here argue that there is no such thing doesn't mean there is no such thing - it just means they're short-sighted, or maybe they need to have the best tech every year. If someone has that much disposable income, go for it. Myself and many other people, however, cannot afford to keep upgrading things to stay at the forefront of leading/bleeding edge tech, so I'd rather keep the same computer for 10 years than waste money every year. So, I build/buy the best I can afford and keep it until it gets unbearable. Lots of people do that. To tell them that they're doing something "wrong" because they use a phrase that some people don't understand is doing them a dis-service, my friend.

 

Unless, of course, you're going to pay for their computer.

Putting it another way, which would you rather have:

• a computer that you paid a modest sum for that can get what you need to do done, but can't properly handle what you WANT to do, leading to wasted time, lost games and frustration, or
• a computer that you invested as much as you could afford, that ran everything well and never let you down for years on end? That's future-proofing.

And let's not forget that there are serviceable AIOs.

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly (I'm not a native English speaker), didn't want to sound patronizing, but 95% of people that go overkill on cooling just don't have any clear idea of how it works nor what they really need...

And in the case of coolers "future proofing" is clearly to go for a big aircooler, CPUs don't need that much more  power than 10 years ago on average (again the new i7/i9 at unlimited power are the exceptions), some people use a NH-D15 since it was released !

And if AIOs can last more than 5 years, there's still a much larger failure rate than with aircoolers that just don't degrade over time. So that's the best answer for someone that don't want to upgrade for a long time and keep parts for long as well !

Serviceable AIO (like mine...) are pretty rare as well, and most people are going for fancy LianLi and Corsair stuff based on looks and marketing, and don't even think about servicing...

[RevGAM]

22 minutes ago, PDifolco said:

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly (I'm not a native English speaker), didn't want to sound patronizing, but 95% of people that go overkill on cooling just don't have any clear idea of how it works nor what they really need...

And in the case of coolers "future proofing" is clearly to go for a big aircooler, CPUs don't need that much more  power than 10 years ago on average (again the new i7/i9 at unlimited power are the exceptions), some people use a NH-D15 since it was released !

And if AIOs can last more than 5 years, there's still a much larger failure rate than with aircoolers that just don't degrade over time. So that's the best answer for someone that don't want to upgrade for a long time and keep parts for long as well !

Serviceable AIO (like mine...) are pretty rare as well, and most people are going for fancy LianLi and Corsair stuff based on looks and marketing, and don't even think about servicing...

Yes, I agree that AIOs are not really necessary for most people. Sorry if I came across as harsh. Yes, AIOs fail far more often and most people don't even KNOW whether or not AIOs can be serviced, let alone which ones, judging by numerous people who've asked for help here. It's also sad that people are so easily manipulated into buying overpriced products from LL, Corsair and others. It took me 2 weeks to get Lian Li to tell me where to look for SOME of the missing things I need for their fans I got "open box" at Micro Center, and they only recommend Ali Express, which I refuse to use, so....Bye LL. Not great service, but not as bad as Segotep, whose agent MOCKED me repeatedly because I was asking for specs that aren't on the website. Thanks for your response!