Intel's slapped a 16GB dual-channel minimum entry requirement on Core Ultra laptops

[Alex Atkin UK]

13 hours ago, porina said:

On the DDR5 module being dual channel, it is 2x32-bit channels, compared to DDR4 (and earlier?) being 1x64-bit channel. So peak transfers per clock remains same per module. It seems the whole industry has decided to refer to one DDR5 module as if it were a single channel, consistent with DDR4.

Thank goodness for that, they could easily have scammed us on that too.

 

3 hours ago, thevictor390 said:

Historically gaming consoles have had less or similar memory than contemporary PCs, especially high-trim ones (remember we are talking about "Ultra" badges)

The important difference is unified memory on game consoles is designed so the CPU and GPU can access the same memory.

 

While an iGPU PC like Steam Deck uses the same pool of memory, at any give time some is assigned to the GPU and some to the GPU - they cannot simply access each others allocation like a games console can.  If the asset the CPU needs is in the GPU allocation, it has to load that asset from storage into its allocation of RAM, its very inefficient.

 

So a PC with 16GB RAM and an iGPU effectively has a lot less usable RAM than a PC with a dGPU, or a console.  As not only is the GPU using up a large chunk of that RAM, but the data gets duplicated when the same assets are needed to be accessed by the CPU and GPU.

 

Another thing the consoles are doing now is the GPU can pull data straight from the SSD using a dedicated controller, bypassing the CPU.  Even with DirectStorage, PC can't do this, everything has to go via the CPU.  Bonus, anything the GPU has pulled into RAM should then be available to the CPU as presumably there is some mechanism to tell the CPU what has happened after the fact.

[HumdrumPenguin]

I wish there were official guidelines that enforced minimum specs on products of a certain price and category . I can never consider "entry models" of expensive devices because they almost always (if not always) lack the bare ***ing minimum.

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 12/24/2023 at 2:26 AM, HumdrumPenguin said:

I wish there were official guidelines that enforced minimum specs on products of a certain price and category . I can never consider "entry models" of expensive devices because they almost always (if not always) lack the bare ***ing minimum.

The bigger problem being the manufacturer being allowed to customise the TDP.  Its stupid that you can buy two different laptops with seemingly identical specifications, but one of them the CPU and/or GPU will be limited more than the other, often quite dramatically so, and they wont even tell you in the specifications.

 

Its not just Intel at this either, I have an Ryzen 2500U laptop that runs basic games fine - for about 10 minutes.  Then it pulls down the power limit, dropping a 60fps game to 30fps.

 

Of course this still somewhat applies even to desktops, when a manufacturer chooses a motherboard with weak VRMs that cannot let the CPU breathe.  But at least you can take that CPU out and put it in a motherboard that works, on a laptop you're completely screwed.

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 12/25/2023 at 7:48 AM, Alex Atkin UK said:

The bigger problem being the manufacturer being allowed to customise the TDP.  Its stupid that you can buy two different laptops with seemingly identical specifications, but one of them the CPU and/or GPU will be limited more than the other, often quite dramatically so, and they wont even tell you in the specifications.

 

Its not just Intel at this either, I have an Ryzen 2500U laptop that runs basic games fine - for about 10 minutes.  Then it pulls down the power limit, dropping a 60fps game to 30fps.

 

Of course this still somewhat applies even to desktops, when a manufacturer chooses a motherboard with weak VRMs that cannot let the CPU breathe.  But at least you can take that CPU out and put it in a motherboard that works, on a laptop you're completely screwed.

I was mostly thinking of RAM and storage, but limited TDP can be another huge issue like you said. Guidelines to products should exist, because companies are masterminds at messing their own offerings.

[Rodinski]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:41 PM, starsmine said:

.... Steam deck is just a laptop without a keyboard. 
Do I need to explain why what you said is wild?

Its a linux PC, and you can install windows on it to, and dock it with a keyboard. its a portable all in one. 

My 12GB ram laptop with zen 3 hits pagefile DAILY. Its not even like Im running ram heavy tasks other then chrome on it

16GB is the minimum today for new laptops, and in 2H 2024, if a new laptop is being sold with under 24GB, honestly, its taking the piss. I dont mean super expensive laptops, New ones except for zen 3 all use DDR5. The zen 2 laptops 8020 series uses DDR5. AKA 12GB per 64bit channel is reasonable and cheap. 

This is getting ridiculous.  A web browser should not be using that much.  It never did, even with the same level of features as chrome had since the XP days.

 

My desktop has 32 GB.  Edge, with 40 processes is using 2 GB.

 

I just shake my head.  The "features" don't really add anything to the experience.  Such a waste.  Crappy coders these days.

 

It's getting to the point I will rather suffer with Linux and continue Windows or Mac support.

[starsmine]

49 minutes ago, Rodinski said:

This is getting ridiculous.  A web browser should not be using that much.  It never did, even with the same level of features as chrome had since the XP days.

 

My desktop has 32 GB.  Edge, with 40 processes is using 2 GB.

 

I just shake my head.  The "features" don't really add anything to the experience.  Such a waste.  Crappy coders these days.

 

It's getting to the point I will rather suffer with Linux and continue Windows or Mac support.

Every tab is sandboxed now and as you can see there are a lot open. 
Tabs do NOT share resources like they did in XP, that opens up you to cross tab malicious scripts.