Can't get 165 Hz, let alone over 60 Hz

[Paul Rudd]

First off, I didn't know where to post this so I chose displays since the issue is getting my monitor over 60 Hz. So if mods think this will get better answers in a different section by all means move it to that section.

 

Monitor is Asus VG278 1080p 165 Hz.

CPU is i3 4130.

Motherboard is HP 2AF7 H87. (only a VGA and DVI port)

No GPU.

 

I'm trying to get 165 Hz, if not 144 or 120 Hz on my monitor but it will not go beyond 60 Hz. I'm guessing it's because the onboard graphics of the CPU will not go beyond 60 Hz.

 

Before finding all this out, I bought a DVI single link cable. It didn't work, so I bought a DVI dual link cable. Which also did not work. So now I'm wondering what I can do to get this monitor to 120-165 Hz on the cheap.

 

I'm thinking maybe a cheap GPU that can support this 120-165 Hz and has a DVI port on it. I was thinking maybe a GTX 750 Ti or something but of course people have caught on that these GPUs are great for performance so the price is a good $23 to $30 minimum.

 

So my question is, does anyone know of a GPU(preferably 2GB or more) that can support this 120-165 Hz yet cost me like $5 to $15?

 

Or, do you have a different solution to getting my monitor above 60 Hz in my situation?

 

Oh and P.S., the GPU has to be low powered, as the PSU on this PC is super low. I think it's like a 130-185W PSU, max. I'm all ears to a better PSU as well, cheap of course.

[jaslion]

Your igpu does NOT support going pas 60hz.

 

Is this a small office pc because if it uses half size pcie slots the card needs to be a low profile card. Which aren't cheap.

 

For 5-15$ there simply isn't anything that really will do this  unless you are ok with using a gpu again that hasn't had support for years.

 

What is the usecase even? Any reason you opted for a high refresh gaming monitor on a very basic web browser machine?

 

Also what office pc is it? Got a model or if not got a picture?

 

As for gpu I'd for over that extra 10$ and get something proper like a 750ti as it will display at 144hz at least. Don't expect to play anything at 144hz with that cpu and gpu that is remotely modern

[Paul Rudd]

23 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Is this a small office pc because if it uses half size pcie slots the card needs to be a low profile card. Which aren't cheap.

It's not SFF, it looks like ATX but maybe mini ATX.

24 minutes ago, jaslion said:

For 5-15$ there simply isn't anything that really will do this  unless you are ok with using a gpu again that hasn't had support for years.

Completely fine with this. Old drivers work great.

[SimplyChunk]

Quadro K2000 can be had on ebay for about £17 quid

 

Same GK 107 chip as a 2GB GTX 640/650

 

But half the price of one of those.

 

Old thread here about a guy getting 3440x1440@100Hz working on one

So would imagine with a custom resolution you'd hit 1080p@120+

 

 

[Paul Rudd]

1 hour ago, ChonkerFox said:

Quadro K2000 can be had on ebay for about £17 quid

Not bad, goes for as low as $15 here in the US.

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

What is the usecase even?

Also, I forgot to answer these questions...

 

The use case is mostly for a dual monitor setup to watch ball games and using the internet and what not but the PC will also be used for low demanding games on the Microsoft store, classic games that released around the same year(ish) as the i3 4130, such as Tiger Woods 12 The Masters or Left 4 Dead 2, and also practically any pixel graphic game such as Craft the World, Party Hard, Celeste or Stardew Valley. I also aim for a 2GB VRAM GPU because it really boosts performance when playing all these types of games. 1GB can suffice but that 2GB goes a long way.

 

The main games are on the Microsoft store and trust me when I tell you, the difference of playing those games at 60 Hz versus 120 Hz or above is night and day.

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

Any reason you opted for a high refresh gaming monitor on a very basic web browser machine? Also what office pc is it? Got a model or if not got a picture? As for gpu I'd for over that extra 10$ and get something proper like a 750ti as it will display at 144hz at least. Don't expect to play anything at 144hz with that cpu and gpu that is remotely modern

Because gaming on it is super possible. And when you pay just $30 for it, getting it to run the games the individual playing it wants to play makes them and me very happy.

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

As for gpu I'd for over that extra 10$ and get something proper like a 750ti as it will display at 144hz at least. Don't expect to play anything at 144hz with that cpu and gpu that is remotely modern

It's an HP 110-a04. It originally had Windows 8 on it but now it has Windows 10. And there's a hanging update on it that's super annoying that I can't get to update but I'm working on that. The PC can still be used luckily while that update hangs.

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

As for gpu I'd for over that extra 10$ and get something proper like a 750ti as it will display at 144hz at least. Don't expect to play anything at 144hz with that cpu and gpu that is remotely modern

Modern? Vampire Survivors released to Steam approximately 363 days ago. Is that modern enough or does it have to be in the past month or so? Because there's multiple Vampire Survivor clones on Steam that are free that'll run just fine on HD Graphics 4400 and they're literally releasing weekly on Steam. Roguevive Prelude released to Steam a few weeks ago and it'll definitely run on this PC.

 

Oh and I'm also looking to upgrade this i3 to an i7 to double the cores and threads but I'm being patient to get the price down from around $20 because the way I see it, if I paid $30 for the entire PC I gotta make sure to minimize the cost of the upgrades. And to get that $30 in the first place I simply negotiated so that's what I'll do to get the i7. The problem with this is also the PSU. I may have to upgrade it because the wattage on the i7 will be much higher unless I go with an i7-4790S.

 

There's also the thought of going i5 but I've looked into what that presents over the i3 and it's not much when compared to an i7 because it doesn't double the thread count, an i5 is still the same 4 threads. And yes, this is if I can also throw a GPU into this build. You may be surprised what a 4th gen i7 is capable of with a GPU in this build.

[SimplyChunk]

1 hour ago, Paul Rudd said:

Not bad, goes for as low as $15 here in the US.

That's not a bad price at all.  It's also the same GPU that's in the 1030  I think the price on that one will be a bit high though still.

 

You can see the list of cards that use it here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-gk107.g109

 

It just came to me that old 3D vision stuff used to have to allow at least 120Hz for it to work and the GTX600 series was the cards for it at the time

[jaslion]

7 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

HP 110-a04

Very good info to have!

 

Yeah so basically nothing with a power connector is advisable.

 

7 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

that's what I'll do to get the i7. The problem with this is also the PSU. I may have to upgrade it because the wattage on the i7 will be much higher unless I go with an i7-4790S.

Actually it's quite fine. A 4790 isn't too much.

 

You might also be better off haggling for another complete as for like 80$ I've helped people get i5 6500 + like a gtx760 before. They are not uncommon as anything 4core is seen as obsolete for games and a lot of cheap older gaming systems are being dumped.

 

As for psu DO NOT cheap out on that. The only thing that awaits there is disaster. https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

 

Never go below c tier.

 

7 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

4th gen i7 is capable of with a GPU in this build.

Oh I know used to run a 2600k at 5ghz + a vega 56 till last year somewhere as the living room gaming pc. Worked like a charm. Finally wasn't able to hold 60fps in modern games so slapped a first gen ryzen 1700 in it and we were of to the races once more.

 

Btw with anything modern I meant like harder to run 3d games. Anything 2d that doesn't run into driver issues will be fine.

[Paul Rudd]

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

I've helped people get i5 6500

I have my old i5 6400 in a box. The cost for a used M150 motherboard though is not cheap when compared to getting an entire PC with a 4th gen i3 that just so happens to have hyperthreading for $30.

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

anything 4core is seen as obsolete for games

That's so strange, my i5 6400 was a BEAST at 1080p for so many years. It bottlenecks more demanding games for sure, which is why I upgraded to my current i7 6700. 4 cores and 8 threads is IMO the CPU to target in 2023 when building dirt cheap.

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

As for psu DO NOT cheap out on that. The only thing that awaits there is disaster.

Oh this I know, and I pretty much know that tier list by heart. What I'm looking for is something to replace this 150W PSU because that's just not enough watts to do much of anything with. I'm thinking a 400-450W but they're just not sold anymore. Which is weird to see, I could have sworn they were all over PCPP not long ago. Cheapest I see on there now is an 80+ 500-600W Thermaltake Smart for $40-$45 but I'm targeting much cheaper than what I paid for the build itself.

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

Never go below c tier.

I do agree with this but in an old build like this one, tier list really doesn't matter. It's all about powering a 200-250W build. Do you remember the Corsair CX450 from 2017? That's an example of what I'm hoping to find dirt cheap. Something like an EVGA 450 BR or an EVGA 430W White. I remember when the Corsair VS450 White was a solid option for super cheap, they're just not on the market anymore. Finding these used though, from a fellow PC enthusiast, is what it's all about. There's also the thought of finding used 250W units but it has to be from someone that knows exactly what it's been through or I couldn't possibly buy it. Even this $30 PC I got was FILLED with dust buildup. Never seen anything like it. I had to use an outdoor lawn blower to get everything out of it. Worked GREAT btw. Never did I think to use it until I finally got tired of buying air dusters that have jumped up in price over the past couple years.

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

Oh I know used to run a 2600k at 5ghz + a vega 56 till last year somewhere as the living room gaming pc. Worked like a charm.

Oh I believe it, love Vega graphics.

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

Finally wasn't able to hold 60fps in modern games so slapped a first gen ryzen 1700 in it and we were of to the races once more.

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

with anything modern I meant like harder to run 3d games. Anything 2d that doesn't run into driver issues will be fine.

Ah, I see. You should change your use of the word modern to graphically demanding. I can't think of a synonym for this that is one word. Maybe something like, strenuous? Strenuous games?

 

My reason behind this is because I get more enjoyment and much more hours out of less strenuous games. It's mostly because almost all of them present a frame rate that's over my monitors refresh rate. That and because I've been addicted to League and tons of pixel graphic games over the past few years.

 

Thanks for all the help, definitely gonna see what I can turn this $30 PC into. I've yet to give the hyperthreaded i3 a chance with a GPU, I still wanna see how it performs because no 4th gen i5 has hyperthreading. So when I see 4th gen i3 and i5 in gaming video comparisons, they're right there with each other in performance. And then the 4th gen i7 sort of sky rockets beside them due to the higher thread count. Actually testing this for myself, is exciting.

[jaslion]

13 minutes ago, Paul Rudd said:

I do agree with this but in an old build like this one, tier list really doesn't matter.

It does I've seen plenty office pc's die from shit psu's a evga 450 br is c tier totally fine

 

14 minutes ago, Paul Rudd said:

I have my old i5 6400 in a box. The cost for a used M150 motherboard though is not cheap when compared to getting an entire PC with a 4th gen i3 that just so happens to have hyperthreading for $30.

Oh I meant like entire pc here. You can get old gaming boxes with that hardware for under 100 so for sure have a look there instead of piecing togheter the i3 as is right now only.  Often great deals with a bit of haggling to be found. Gtx 750ti used systems are actually very common for well under 100

[Paul Rudd]

3 hours ago, jaslion said:

It does I've seen plenty office pc's die from shit psu's

Yup, had one die a couple years ago. I'm hoping to hear from someone that has this occur all the time with old office PC's and maybe they've had some good experiences with used replacements around 250W.

[jaslion]

1 hour ago, Paul Rudd said:

Yup, had one die a couple years ago. I'm hoping to hear from someone that has this occur all the time with old office PC's and maybe they've had some good experiences with used replacements around 250W.

Right now there are no off the shelf non crap 300w or less psu's unless you count some really old bequiets since this is basically not a popular option AT ALL for any diy pc

[SimplyChunk]

https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply/2310

 

 

You'd have a PCIe then too

 

I got one powering a 10400 and an RTX A2000

 

[Paul Rudd]

@jaslion @ChonkerFox

 

Okay, I've made a decision and I hope it's the right one.

 

I went with a GT 710 2GB, for these reasons...

1. I paid less money than it costs to visit McDonalds and order food that costs more than the dollar menu.
2. The seller even let me know that I can return it if things don't work out, no problem.
3. I did some research and found that people claim it can do 120-144 Hz, if not 165 Hz.
4. I did some research and found that you can plug this PCIe x8 into the PCIe x16 on my motherboard.
5. Its TDP is a measly 19W, so my 180W PSU will handle it, no problem.
6. Its suggested PSU is 200W, which is miles below every other GPU showing a 300W PSU requirement.
7. It has 1x DVI, 1x HDMI 1.4a and 1x VGA. These ports seem great to see?
8. 192 shading units, which is half of that K2000 Quadro mentioned above.
9. 2GB of VRAM. This should come in handy big time.

What do y'all think? I've lowered my expectations big time and hope to see anything over 60 Hz on my monitor when I install it. Or did I make a mistake here?

 

I plan to keep this GPU regardless because this seller was super nice to give me a significant price drop. If I can at least get it up and running I call that a win, even if it's still stuck at 60 Hz.

 

Oh and I also found out on the official data sheet for the K2000 Quadro that it won't go over 60 Hz via DVI port. And I also read that a 250W PSU is recommended. Which that's better than 300W but I just figured that the 200W of the GT 710 2GB was the way to go in terms of wattage.

[Glenwing]

3 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

@jaslion @ChonkerFox

 

Okay, I've made a decision and I hope it's the right one.

 

I went with a GT 710 2GB, for these reasons...

1. I paid less money than it costs to visit McDonalds and order food that costs more than the dollar menu.
2. The seller even let me know that I can return it if things don't work out, no problem.
3. I did some research and found that people claim it can do 120-144 Hz, if not 165 Hz.
4. I did some research and found that you can plug this PCIe x8 into the PCIe x16 on my motherboard.
5. Its TDP is a measly 19W, so my 180W PSU will handle it, no problem.
6. Its suggested PSU is 200W, which is miles below every other GPU showing a 300W PSU requirement.
7. It has 1x DVI, 1x HDMI 1.4a and 1x VGA. These ports seem great to see?
8. 192 shading units, which is half of that K2000 Quadro mentioned above.
9. 2GB of VRAM. This should come in handy big time.

What do y'all think? I've lowered my expectations big time and hope to see anything over 60 Hz on my monitor when I install it. Or did I make a mistake here?

DVI ports on low-end cards are often single-link only (GT 1030 comes to mind).

 

3 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

Oh and I also found out on the official data sheet for the K2000 Quadro that it won't go over 60 Hz via DVI port. And I also read that a 250W PSU is recommended. Which that's better than 300W but I just figured that the 200W of the GT 710 2GB was the way to go in terms of wattage.

There's nothing in there about a limit of 60 Hz. If you mean where it says "Maximum resolution: 2560×1600 at 60 Hz", that just means that's the maximum resolution at that refresh rate. If you use a different refresh rate like 144 Hz then the maximum resolution will be different.

[Paul Rudd]

10 hours ago, Glenwing said:

DVI ports on low-end cards are often single-link only (GT 1030 comes to mind).

Do you have a link to this information? I did find this, which shows that it is indeed a DL DVI port.

 

And also this has PCPP listing it as a DL DVI port as well.

And then this showing it's a DVI-D port. There's an * by it, but I cannot for the life of me find any sentences with that * beside it on this page.

 

I love how at the very top it says, "Now, you can enjoy up to 10x better performance than integrated graphics in all your PC multimedia applications." But we know damn well this isn't true. It's those words up to that may be true, ya gotta love marketing.

10 hours ago, Glenwing said:

There's nothing in there about a limit of 60 Hz. If you mean where it says "Maximum resolution: 2560×1600 at 60 Hz", that just means that's the maximum resolution at that refresh rate. If you use a different refresh rate like 144 Hz then the maximum resolution will be different.

Right, so when using 1920 x 1080, it'll cap at 60 Hz because it shows that it caps at 60 Hz at 1920 x 1200. That tiny 120 height isn't going to magically jump to 144 Hz. Especially when the monitor also plays a role.

 

The monitor also has a max refresh rate when using DVI. And here is the monitor manual for the VG278HE but my monitor is the VG278. They're slightly universal but here is the VG278 manual. This VG278 manual doesn't list the 2D/3D mode, so keep that in mind.

 

Anyway, scroll to the very last page of both manuals. It shows 120 Hz being the highest when in 3D mode(VG278HE manual), so that's what I'm expecting to achieve with the GT 710. And at the very bottom, with the "*", it says Note: you must select one of the “*” timing for enabling 3D or 144Hz feature with a compatible NVIDIA-GPU graphic card via Dual-link DVI cable connection. So fortunately, the GT 710 is indeed an NVIDIA GPU. The only thing that I worry about there is the word compatible because this GT 710 may not be a compatible NVIDIA GPU for this monitor. Where to find that out, I have no clue. It also shows a DP port being the only way to achieve 165 Hz, but as the VG278HE manual shows, it has to be in 2D mode for that to work. At least that's what I'm guessing from reading both manuals.

[Glenwing]

7 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

Do you have a link to this information? I did find this, which shows that it is indeed a DL DVI port.

 

And also this has PCPP listing it as a DL DVI port as well.

And then this showing it's a DVI-D port. There's an * by it, but I cannot for the life of me find any sentences with that * beside it on this page.

It's just my own observation based on experience, not something I read on the internet.

 

Generally retail product listings (and even datasheets and manuals) can't be relied upon just by the fact that they label something as "Dual-Link DVI", because many there is a widespread belief that you can distinguish single-link from dual-link f by looking at the connector, which is not true. It seems there are some EVGA GT 710s that have two DVI ports and EVGA distinguishes between single-link and dual-link, so based on that, I trust that dual-link is indeed available on the GT 710. https://www.evga.com/Products/Specs/GPU.aspx?pn=F345C5EC-D00D-4818-9B43-79885E8A161F

7 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

Right, so when using 1920 x 1080, it'll cap at 60 Hz because it shows that it caps at 60 Hz at 1920 x 1200. That tiny 120 height isn't going to magically jump to 144 Hz. Especially when the monitor also plays a role.

It says the maximum for DVI is 2560×1600, not 1920×1200. The limit of 1920×1200 at 60 Hz is only for single-link mode.

[Paul Rudd]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:40 PM, Glenwing said:

I trust that dual-link is indeed available on the GT 710. It says the maximum for DVI is 2560×1600, not 1920×1200. The limit of 1920×1200 at 60 Hz is only for single-link mode.

If only it showed the maximum Hz at 1080p. I'll find out in a few days, as it's still in shipping. I'm still guessing it's 120 Hz unless I run it in 2D mode, which should be 165 Hz. I don't know why I'd run it in 2D mode though.

[SimplyChunk]

3 hours ago, Paul Rudd said:

If only it showed the maximum Hz at 1080p. I'll find out in a few days, as it's still in shipping. I'm still guessing it's 120 Hz unless I run it in 2D mode, which should be 165 Hz. I don't know why I'd run it in 2D mode though.

Even if you end up having to make a custom resolution to get there. (there are tons of resources out there on how to do this.  Blurbusters is a great site)  I know for a fact that a DVI-D Dual-Link has the bandwidth for 1080p 120Hz.  That's exactly how I used to run 3d vision back in the day on my 660ti and XL2720T  I also remember it grumbling like hell if I didn't use the DVI-D Dual-Link cable that came with my monitor.  That's another pitfall you're going to have to look out for, cause even *if* the socket on the card has all 24+1 pins there's no guarantee that they're wired up on the board.

 

Here's an article explaining all the different DVI standards there were:

https://itm-components.co.uk/blogs/news/what-are-the-differences-between-dvi-connectors-and-signals#:~:text=Single-link DVI-D connectors,pins (24%2B1).

 

[Sharkyx1]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:14 AM, Paul Rudd said:

If only it showed the maximum Hz at 1080p. I'll find out in a few days, as it's still in shipping. I'm still guessing it's 120 Hz unless I run it in 2D mode, which should be 165 Hz. I don't know why I'd run it in 2D mode though.

Based on the manual you posted you should be able to get 144hz over dvi and 165hz if you run a DP cable.

 

 

[Paul Rudd]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:39 PM, Sharkyx1 said:

Based on the manual you posted you should be able to get 144hz over dvi and 165hz if you run a DP cable.

@Sharkyx1 @ChonkerFox @Glenwing @jaslion

 

Okay, the GPU finally arrived today and I have both good news and bad news.

 

The good news is that 144 Hz is available. As is 60, 85, 100 and 120.

 

The bad news is that when I go with any of those Hz above 60, the image is distorted. And what sucks is that when I take a screenshot I can't show it here because it's the monitor that's doing the distortion. Meaning, when I take a screenshot and look at it after going back into 60 Hz, it's normal looking. I can take a picture with like a phone or something but at the moment there's not one in this house lol.

 

To describe the distortion, it's as if everything is overlapping each other. So text looks like it's got two tests on top of each other and not centered.

 

And I'm thinking that there's a fix for this, like messing around with certain settings somewhere but I cannot find the fix.

 

Oh and drivers installed automatically, maybe I should uninstall them and reinstall them? The one reason I think I should try this is because when the drivers were installing I restarted the computer. Then turned it back on and the drivers then installed. They are also up to date when I check their version.

 

Oh and another thing, when I try like 900p or 720p, the distortion is still there but not as much. To describe the distortion that exists at 720p or 900p is more of an expected blurriness that a lower resolution is supposed to look like.

 

EDIT: Just found something else out. When I enter the monitor OSD, it shows the resolution is 960 x 1080 when I'm on 144 Hz. But everywhere else it shows resolution as 1920 x 1080. Maybe this means something? Not sure.

 

EDIT AGAIN: Just switched to HDMI and I'm somehow getting 120 Hz with no distortion, yay! Which means I bought a single link and dual link DVI cables for nothing. I'm guessing both cables were cheap for a reason and that reason is that something will not allow them to portray 1920 x 1080 resolution at a Hz above 60 without distortion. That or the fix I cannot find just needs to be known. Either way, I'm not happy with the result of going with a GT 710. It does help performance in specific games but certain animations are still laggy. Gonna play around with the NVIDIA control panel settings to see if it'll help with those animations. Things like preferring maximum performance or turning off AA and what not.

 

EDIT AGAIN: Above I typed, "Either way, I'm not happy with the result of going with a GT 710." What I meant to say was that I am happy with the result of going with a GT 710.

[Sharkyx1]

Sounds like you were in 3D mode without glasses to correct it Imo

 

1080p in 3d will be two 960x1080 fields  on some displays.

[SimplyChunk]

29 minutes ago, Sharkyx1 said:

Sounds like you were in 3D mode without glasses to correct it Imo

 

1080p in 3d will be two 960x1080 fields  on some displays.

I've got a feeling the Dual Link cable being used is just wired for Single Link

 

Edit:

Or the port on the card is only single link

[Sharkyx1]

Just now, ChonkerFox said:

I've got a feeling the Dual Link cable being used is just wired for Single Link

I only said my previous comment cause op mentioned a 3D mode in an earlier post

[SimplyChunk]

3 minutes ago, Sharkyx1 said:

I only said my previous comment cause op mentioned a 3D mode in an earlier post

I wasn't shooting down your theory.  Merely adding my own

 

Edit:

You should meet @EllieCat with a member title like that

[Paul Rudd]

53 minutes ago, Sharkyx1 said:

Sounds like you were in 3D mode without glasses to correct it Imo

 

1080p in 3d will be two 960x1080 fields  on some displays.

I don't know how to change 2D or 3D mode, where is that?

23 minutes ago, ChonkerFox said:

I've got a feeling the Dual Link cable being used is just wired for Single Link

Edit: Or the port on the card is only single link

The port on the GT 710 is a dual link DVI. You may be right about the Dual Link cable though, it was only like $7 so somehow it may be as you say, wired for single.

 

One thing I need to find out is why certain animations in low demanding games are laggy while the rest of the game is not. Hopefully messing around with the NVIDIA control panel fixes it. The PC is not for me so once I go back over there I'm gonna see what I can do. I've watched videos such as this and this but they have conflicting settings to go with. I know a lot about the NVIDIA control panel in general so I'm gonna give it a little sumtin sumtin of my own knowledge from tweaking the hell out of it many years ago for my 1070.

 

Thanks again for all y'alls help, this forum always has plenty of input to work with from like minds.