Has LMG Issued Any Update Regarding the External Investigation?

[rob_ob]

The reports of a toxic working environment really troubled me. To me, it was clear things needed to change after hearing the leaked audio of the team meeting, which really disappointed me. Since then I've been holding off on watching any videos or support of any kind until I saw some meaningful movement on that front, but over a month later I haven't seen any video addressing this.

 

Did I miss something? Was this ever addressed on the WAN show? I haven't seen anything in the forums either. They previously committed to sharing the results of this, but I'm worried they're now hoping people will just forget.

[Dedayog]

They'll be letting this quietly fade away.

[HanZie82]

4 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

They'll be letting this quietly fade away.

Agreed, that seems best option in combination with fixing it internally.

I doubt because of this we would hear much more of this.
Unless many questions then it might warrant a short WAN segment, but don't expect anything.

You can't explain what has happened without compromising workers privacy, so yeah. Let's hope for the best.

[rob_ob]

It'll be a shame if they break that commitment they made to the transparency around this. It unfortunately means I'll probably part ways permanently, since it both means my initial concerns haven't been addressed, but then they'll have added on duplicity in their behaviour around this by reneging on their commitment to transparency, which to me means they haven't really learned anything from this whole ordeal.

[venomtail]

27 minutes ago, rob_ob said:

It'll be a shame if they break that commitment they made to the transparency around this. It unfortunately means I'll probably part ways permanently, since it both means my initial concerns haven't been addressed, but then they'll have added on duplicity in their behaviour around this by reneging on their commitment to transparency, which to me means they haven't really learned anything from this whole ordeal.

I'll plays devils advocate and say that what happens in a private company regarding private employees, their private lives and their in personal behaviors should remain private. Fans and communities over and over again have proven that they're too happy to get out the pitchforks and demand justice without knowing the full picture.

 

I trust that a 3rd party will give them proper guidance, self punishment as well as future guidelines how to prevent this from happening again.

[Holmes108]

Just now, venomtail said:

I'll plays devils advocate and say that what happens in a private company regarding private employees, their lives and their behaviors should remain private. Fans and communities over and over again have proven that they're too happy to get out the pitchforks and demand justice without knowing the full picture.

 

I trust that a 3rd party will give them proper guidance, self punishment as well as future guidelines how to prevent this from happening again.

 

This. If they promised a follow up, then I suppose it's fine if you want to try and hold them to that. But otherwise, I don't think it's our business. 

 

I don't tend to concern myself with this stuff too much with companies I deal with, unless it's a little more of an issue (like massive human rights issues, etc), otherwise it's just a rabbit hole that will leave you feeling like you can't deal with a single company on the planet.

[Lurick]

29 minutes ago, rob_ob said:

The reports of a toxic working environment really troubled me. To me, it was clear things needed to change after hearing the leaked audio of the team meeting, which really disappointed me. Since then I've been holding off on watching any videos or support of any kind until I saw some meaningful movement on that front, but over a month later I haven't seen any video addressing this.

 

Did I miss something? Was this ever addressed on the WAN show? I haven't seen anything in the forums either. They previously committed to sharing the results of this, but I'm worried they're now hoping people will just forget.

Investigations take time, these are not overnight things. I wouldn't be surprised if this took many months before we get anything (IF we get anything). If there are legal ramifications or some setup where nothing can be publicly disclosed then it's just that, we'll never know and they're not allowed to comment.

[rob_ob]

3 minutes ago, venomtail said:

I trust that a 3rd party will give them proper guidance, self punishment as well as future guidelines how to prevent this from happening again.

I might have before this whole thing kicked off, but the behaviours that were brought to light, including Linus all but admitting he would have tried to squash the story before GN published, had GN reached out for comment, means that trust is gone.

 

The commitment they made to transparency on this was important for building that back up again. If they want to renege on that commitment, then all I can do is assume the worst and leave it at that. They have a platform to have their say, but if they'd rather close off that transparency, then they can do without my business. I'm sure they won't miss it

[Lurick]

Where did they comment to share the results of this investigation anyway? I know allegations were made and I'm sure things are being looked into but for these harassment allegations I never recall them stating we would hear anything about this or acknowledging it to begin with in a manner that would lead to them producing those specific results/outcomes.

[rob_ob]

5 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Where did they comment to share the results of this investigation anyway? I know allegations were made and I'm sure things are being looked into but for these harassment allegations I never recall them stating we would hear anything about this or acknowledging it to begin with in a manner that would lead to them producing those specific results/outcomes.

I believe this if from a post on Floatplane regarding the topic:

 

Quote

We are taking Madison’s allegations seriously. We are conducting an internal assessment alongside bringing in a third-party investigator to look into the allegations. We are committed to publishing the findings and implementing any corrective actions that may arise due to this.

 

[Lurick]

Just now, rob_ob said:

I believe this if from a post on Floatplane regarding the topic:

 

 

Cool, I figured I missed something but wanted to ask so thank you for that!

I guess it would come down to the latter point, if lawyers were involved then it likely will be a while if/when they can say something publicly. I wouldn't expect things to go through in a month though, although to an extent with your post a progress report on IF something is happening would be nice then.

[HanZie82]

Also think of it this way.
If you where in Madisons shoes for example.
You really want to have this all chewed out publicly, cus not only the things that others done wrong will come to light.
You will also be railed over every error made, its not a nice situation.
And then making it worse by having it all out in the public is fucking horrendous.

So demanding inside info like this kinda makes me think you want to much info thats none of your business.
Like said before this happens in all companies, only here it has been made public.
Have you any idea how much shit Madison (unfairly imho) has gotten from this ordeal?! Stupid assholes have sent death threats and everything.

Is that what you want to for the rest of the staff? Cus thats what gonna happen, its happened before.

[rob_ob]

24 minutes ago, HanZie82 said:

Also think of it this way.
If you where in Madisons shoes for example.
You really want to have this all chewed out publicly, cus not only the things that others done wrong will come to light.
You will also be railed over every error made, its not a nice situation.
And then making it worse by having it all out in the public is fucking horrendous.

So demanding inside info like this kinda makes me think you want to much info thats none of your business.
Like said before this happens in all companies, only here it has been made public.
Have you any idea how much shit Madison (unfairly imho) has gotten from this ordeal?! Stupid assholes have sent death threats and everything.

Is that what you want to for the rest of the staff? Cus thats what gonna happen, its happened before.

Hey man, I think you're projecting some stuff on me that isn't fair. I don't want all the dirty laundry aired. I don't want anyone named. I'm not "demanding inside info". I want to know what the outcome of an investigation was/will be. That can be as generic as "we identified these 3 issues, and here are the steps we're taking to make sure they never happen again". That's all. Please stop acting like I'm foaming at the mouth for personal details. It's not a good look, for either of us.

[HanZie82]

12 minutes ago, rob_ob said:

Hey man, I think you're projecting some stuff on me that isn't fair. I don't want all the dirty laundry aired. I don't want anyone named. I'm not "demanding inside info". I want to know what the outcome of an investigation was/will be. That can be as generic as "we identified these 3 issues, and here are the steps we're taking to make sure they never happen again". That's all. Please stop acting like I'm foaming at the mouth for personal details. It's not a good look, for either of us.

Agreed, i was grouping you with other comments from other places, that was not fair of me, i apologise for that.
(you indeed did not ask for that much detail)

But many have asked, and it would be really hard to go into any detail besides 'we have fixed it' or something vague like that.
As most likely (imho ofcourse) it's more a people problem then a company or policy thing.
I've been in such a situation where such allegations where made (never disclosed whom but could guess) and never anything was disclosed besides "its fixed now".
As legally they could not disclose any more information. (but thats here in the Netherlands).

[Thepyrodex]

This is the internet, please refrain from a calm considerate understanding of someone else’s points and apologizing.

 

/s

 

nice to see this!

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, HanZie82 said:

Agreed, that seems best option in combination with fixing it internally.

I doubt because of this we would hear much more of this.
Unless many questions then it might warrant a short WAN segment, but don't expect anything.

You can't explain what has happened without compromising workers privacy, so yeah. Let's hope for the best.

That would not be the best option.  No one has forgotten that this was a thing and there will be questions.   Terren Tong the new CEO gave his word that they would release the results of the inquiry by an external HR firm regarding the most serious issues raised.   

 

Advertisers like to know that the creators they are working with are. 

 

The one trying to sell them on advertising with LMG need to be able to say. 

 

 

[wanderingfool2]

35 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Advertisers like to know that the creators they are working with are. 

You'd be surprised at how many of them don't care what kind of person the creator is in private...as long as it sells their products and doesn't give them a bad reputation

 

What matters for advertisers are more of the public images, ROI, and to an extent how easy they are to work with.  They would still work with someone who internally is known to be a terrible person/treats their employees bad...as long as the majority of the target audience thinks that they are a squeaky clean image or are unaware of the issue.  Of course if it ever became public the advertisers would be "surprised" to learn about it.

 

42 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

That would not be the best option.  No one has forgotten that this was a thing and there will be questions.   Terren Tong the new CEO gave his word that they would release the results of the inquiry by an external HR firm regarding the most serious issues raised.   

I wish that was true, but I think many male audiences have a tendency to just let things go or the statement gets released with such a broad statement that it mischaracterized what the results were.

 

If lets say you limit the scope of the 3rd party and prevent all records from being shown (where you get to summarize the result), you can actually end up with a 3rd party result that hold no weight and makes it seem like you are in the clear.

 

OTK, with Mizkif, is a good example of this how the community "forgives"/"forgets".  He still remains a member of OTK, still is getting sponsors, still has his viewers.  This is in spite of the fact that he literally has made comments that are greatly disturbing

 

1 hour ago, HanZie82 said:

But many have asked, and it would be really hard to go into any detail besides 'we have fixed it' or something vague like that.
As most likely (imho ofcourse) it's more a people problem then a company or policy thing.
I've been in such a situation where such allegations where made (never disclosed whom but could guess) and never anything was disclosed besides "its fixed now".
As legally they could not disclose any more information. (but thats here in the Netherlands).

There's lots that can be said in regards to this publicly though.

 

The 3rd party could make a statement of whether or not Madison's public statements were found to be accurate, inaccurate, indeterminable but believed to be false, indeterminable but believed aspects of it to be true, etc.

 

Some of the statements can be stated if it was true or not...such as being told to work on the Linus OF page.  If she did not wish to manage that, but was told to do it anyways for example.

 

The key is they don't have to list any names either, they could just say something like "we have found there has been sexual harassment which was ignored by management and often reprimands were verbally given to employees to avoid a paper trail".  Sure that might indirectly pinpoint Linus, but when it comes to the seriousness of the allegations there are no kid gloves it should become public.

 

The general  issue of a 3rd party audit that remains private is that if it pinpoints senior management there is likely little that will be done because the  people making the decisions are the ones that were wrong in the first place.  It's like one workplace I know, they actually have a senior guy who was actually convicted of SH in the workplace and the person still is working there because he's a "protected" individual at the company...and no one else really knows about it, and it's not allowed to be talked about publicly.  So I do see a purpose of publicly displaying the results of the 3rd party (you don't necessarily need the nitty gritty details)