compatibility Noctua offset bar compatibility question

[Shyguy873]

Budget (including currency): $5000

Country: canada

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: gaming and blender

Other details

does anybody know if the noctua NM-AMB15 cooling offset mounting bar works with the ryzen 9 7950x with the noctua HN-D15 cpu cooler on it and the CPU not being de-lidded (i only know about it because of linus's video called "Noctua's New Cooler Voids Your Warranty...." and he talked a bit about de-lidded CPU's)?

 

[Agall]

10 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

Budget (including currency): $5000

Country: canada

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: gaming and blender

Other details

does anybody know if the noctua NM-AMB15 cooling offset mounting bar works with the ryzen 9 7950x with the noctua HN-D15 cpu cooler on it and the CPU not being de-lidded (i only know about it because of linus's video called "Noctua's New Cooler Voids Your Warranty...." and he talked a bit about de-lidded CPU's)?

 

The offset and delid are separate things.

 

The 7mm offset bracket is specifically to compensate for the fact that the CCD(s), being like 80% of the heat generated by the CPU, are biased quite heavily towards the bottom of the CPU's substrate. It puts the Y axis of the cooler at -7mm, putting it closer to the GPU.

 

The delid kit is for Z height, since removing the lid creates a few millimeter gap otherwise between the CPU die and the cooler. Dropping the cooler down closer to the CPU because of the removed thickness without a heat spreader.

 

Here's a "close but good enough" visual representation of why the 7mm offset is useful:

[brob]

1 hour ago, Shyguy873 said:

Budget (including currency): $5000

Country: canada

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: gaming and blender

Other details

does anybody know if the noctua NM-AMB15 cooling offset mounting bar works with the ryzen 9 7950x with the noctua HN-D15 cpu cooler on it and the CPU not being de-lidded (i only know about it because of linus's video called "Noctua's New Cooler Voids Your Warranty...." and he talked a bit about de-lidded CPU's)?

 

 

No. See https://faqs.noctua.at/support/solutions/articles/101000484444. The NH-D15 requires NM-AMB12.

 

 

[Shyguy873]

2 hours ago, Agall said:

The offset and delid are separate things.

 

The 7mm offset bracket is specifically to compensate for the fact that the CCD(s), being like 80% of the heat generated by the CPU, are biased quite heavily towards the bottom of the CPU's substrate. It puts the Y axis of the cooler at -7mm, putting it closer to the GPU.

 

The delid kit is for Z height, since removing the lid creates a few millimeter gap otherwise between the CPU die and the cooler. Dropping the cooler down closer to the CPU because of the removed thickness without a heat spreader.

 

Here's a "close but good enough" visual representation of why the 7mm offset is useful:

ohhh ok thanks

[Shyguy873]

1 hour ago, brob said:

 

No. See https://faqs.noctua.at/support/solutions/articles/101000484444. The NH-D15 requires NM-AMB12.

 

 

thanks. so that one would work with the 7950x and the hn-d15?

[brob]

46 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

thanks. so that one would work with the 7950x and the hn-d15?

 

Not sure how to respond to this. Did you follow the link and look at the chart? If the concern is 7950X compatibility, see https://noctua.at/en/offset-am5-mounting-technical-backgrounds. The CPU is included in the various charts.

 

Personally I'm not sure that a few extra degrees is going to matter to most users. 

[Agall]

11 hours ago, brob said:

 

Not sure how to respond to this. Did you follow the link and look at the chart? If the concern is 7950X compatibility, see https://noctua.at/en/offset-am5-mounting-technical-backgrounds. The CPU is included in the various charts.

 

Personally I'm not sure that a few extra degrees is going to matter to most users. 

 

12 hours ago, Shyguy873 said:

thanks. so that one would work with the 7950x and the hn-d15?

Amazon.com: Noctua NM-AMB12, chromax.Black Offset AMD AM5 Mounting Bars for Improved Cooling Performance (Black) : Electronics

 

Yes it'll work, but really isn't worth it for 7950x in my opinion. Its mostly to help with 3D v-cache parts which reach their thermal limit neigh instantly. For $5 though, I don't see a point in not getting it if you want it though, I just don't think its as beneficial for non 3D as it is for the latter.

 

You're more likely to run into issues with PCIe compatibility, as you can see here, its VERY tight, but I pre-measured the gap to be 12mm before I purchased the part, since GPU backplate design can be enough to cause a conflict. You don't want any torque being applied to the cooler because of it since that can cause an improper amount of contact pressure and/or damage the heatpipe's relatively delicate phase chase cycle.

 

[Shyguy873]

4 hours ago, Agall said:

 

Amazon.com: Noctua NM-AMB12, chromax.Black Offset AMD AM5 Mounting Bars for Improved Cooling Performance (Black) : Electronics

 

Yes it'll work, but really isn't worth it for 7950x in my opinion. Its mostly to help with 3D v-cache parts which reach their thermal limit neigh instantly. For $5 though, I don't see a point in not getting it if you want it though, I just don't think its as beneficial for non 3D as it is for the latter.

 

You're more likely to run into issues with PCIe compatibility, as you can see here, its VERY tight, but I pre-measured the gap to be 12mm before I purchased the part, since GPU backplate design can be enough to cause a conflict. You don't want any torque being applied to the cooler because of it since that can cause an improper amount of contact pressure and/or damage the heatpipe's relatively delicate phase chase cycle.

 

are you saying that the mounting bar or the gpu and cause torque on the cooler? also damn i didnt know it was only $5 i thought it would have been more, at that price it doesnt even matter if it only cools its 1-3 degrees celcius. also why did you measure it to be 12mm, isnt the offset mount only 7mm? and so did you buy it and you thought/think that it isnt worth it?and so you are saying that it might have compatability issues if you move the cpu cooler 7mm? also in the image why do you have the fans on the sides of the cooler instead of one being in the middle and one being on the side, is that better then the way it is by default?

[Agall]

50 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

are you saying that the mounting bar or the gpu and cause torque on the cooler? also damn i didnt know it was only $5 i thought it would have been more, at that price it doesnt even matter if it only cools its 1-3 degrees celcius. also why did you measure it to be 12mm, isnt the offset mount only 7mm? and so did you buy it and you thought/think that it isnt worth it?and so you are saying that it might have compatability issues if you move the cpu cooler 7mm? also in the image why do you have the fans on the sides of the cooler instead of one being in the middle and one being on the side, is that better then the way it is by default?

For my 7950x3D its worth it.

 

The 12mm I measured was the gap between the bottom of the NH-D15 and my RTX 4090's backplate, therefore being >7mm so that you don't impact the card and potentially torque the cooler.

 

The reason you measure is because the CPU socket can vary in its position, so yours might not have a 12mm gap because of that or your GPU's backplate is thinner or thicker. I measured it with calipers, so I knew I was good before buying it.

 

Worst case, that offset bracket has the normal spacing, so it can just be a more versatile set of AM5 brackets for the NH-D15. I can see it ending up being the default AM5 brackets in the box if AM5 CPU's CCDs continue to be offset so substantially as Ryzen 7000 is.

[Shyguy873]

34 minutes ago, Agall said:

For my 7950x3D its worth it.

 

The 12mm I measured was the gap between the bottom of the NH-D15 and my RTX 4090's backplate, therefore being >7mm so that you don't impact the card and potentially torque the cooler.

 

The reason you measure is because the CPU socket can vary in its position, so yours might not have a 12mm gap because of that or your GPU's backplate is thinner or thicker. I measured it with calipers, so I knew I was good before buying it.

 

Worst case, that offset bracket has the normal spacing, so it can just be a more versatile set of AM5 brackets for the NH-D15. I can see it ending up being the default AM5 brackets in the box if AM5 CPU's CCDs continue to be offset so substantially as Ryzen 7000 is.

so worst case is that it doesnt do anything? also calipers are the thing that looks like a wrench but can measure stuff right?

[Agall]

1 minute ago, Shyguy873 said:

so worst case is that it doesnt do anything? also calipers are the thing that looks like a wrench but can measure stuff right?

The lower part of the jaw slides down the 'handle' to allow for precise measurements of length. The backside of it allows you to measure inner dimensions, and the end of it allows you to measure depth.

 

They're a great tool to have in the toolbox and can be <$20 for polymer ones that work plenty good for most people's use. No need for crazy expensive $200 Japanese ones for basic use.

[Shyguy873]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

The lower part of the jaw slides down the 'handle' to allow for precise measurements of length. The backside of it allows you to measure inner dimensions, and the end of it allows you to measure depth.

 

They're a great tool to have in the toolbox and can be <$20 for polymer ones that work plenty good for most people's use. No need for crazy expensive $200 Japanese ones for basic use.

of coarse the crazy exsoensive and best and over the top caliper is from japan, japan always has the best stuff such as kitchen knifes -_-.

[Agall]

7 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

of coarse the crazy exsoensive and best and over the top caliper is from japan, japan always has the best stuff such as kitchen knifes -_-.

I personally prefer CPM-S30V blade steel on my knives which is a US made super steel. Great performance/$ whether its for cutlery or pocket knives.

 

The pair of calipers I have are a cheap digital pair that work plenty well for what I need them for. Otherwise you can probably use an analog like coins or cables to figure out if you have at least 7mm of gap, something standard you can use to translate.

[Shyguy873]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

I personally prefer CPM-S30V blade steel on my knives which is a US made super steel. Great performance/$ whether its for cutlery or pocket knives.

 

The pair of calipers I have are a cheap digital pair that work plenty well for what I need them for. Otherwise you can probably use an analog like coins or cables to figure out if you have at least 7mm of gap, something standard you can use to translate.

what do you mean by analog coins or cables and by something standard i can use to translate? also do you know the distance between each of the mounting holes on the MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk WiFi Gaming Motherboard (mounts circled in red) i wanna make a 3d print to go over the ram and i need to know how big it looks to be to be able to fit into the mounting holes. here is the image

[Agall]

7 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

what do you mean by analog coins or cables and by something standard i can use to translate? also do you know the distance between each of the mounting holes on the MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk WiFi Gaming Motherboard (mounts circled in red) i wanna make a 3d print to go over the ram and i need to know how big it looks to be to be able to fit into the mounting holes. here is the image

Those are all standard hole patterns. Any mITX board, mATX, ATX, eATX motherboard has standard hole patterns. Same goes for the PCIe slot locations, since all of those have to interface universally with various cases, which all follow the same pattern.

 

What can vary in the context of this thread is the location of the CPU socket, which can be higher or lower, or even rotated, depending on what the manufacturer decides. 

 

 

[Shyguy873]

so for my atx motherboard how far apart are they and what is the radius or diameter of those holes? and can you give me a link to the g.skill FTB-3500C5-D or the g.skill FTB-3500C5-DR and give me a product store page for them were they are still in stock?

[Shyguy873]

16 minutes ago, Agall said:

Those are all standard hole patterns. Any mITX board, mATX, ATX, eATX motherboard has standard hole patterns. Same goes for the PCIe slot locations, since all of those have to interface universally with various cases, which all follow the same pattern.

 

What can vary in the context of this thread is the location of the CPU socket, which can be higher or lower, or even rotated, depending on what the manufacturer decides. 

 

 

is there a standard atx hole radius or diameter?

[Agall]

5 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

is there a standard atx hole radius or diameter?

I imagine so. If you take any motherboard and do the measurements, it should be consistent. Its not something I'm willing to perform at this moment, so I'd recommend finding that information or gathering it yourself.

 

Easiest way being to take a set of caliper and measure inner to inner circle, then find the diameter of the holes and add that to the distance you measured between them. That'll put it perfectly center to center without guessing since the holes are equal in diameter (which you should always validate yourself).

[Shyguy873]

30 minutes ago, Agall said:

I imagine so. If you take any motherboard and do the measurements, it should be consistent. Its not something I'm willing to perform at this moment, so I'd recommend finding that information or gathering it yourself.

 

Easiest way being to take a set of caliper and measure inner to inner circle, then find the diameter of the holes and add that to the distance you measured between them. That'll put it perfectly center to center without guessing since the holes are equal in diameter (which you should always validate yourself).

oh ok thanks. also do you know if you can add fans to anything else in a case? in using the Cooler Master MasterCase H500 ARGB case and i already planned the 5 fans that it supports on it walls, 2 on the right, one on the left, and 2 on the top. were else could i possibly be able to add fans? because if i finish the build there woudl still be an area that is just empty and i feel like something could be there to make the pc run better. here is a pic of an example im talking about from one of linus's videos. is there anything i can put there to make the pc better, whether its more cooling or something else? and can you give me a link to the g.skill FTB-3500C5-D or the g.skill FTB-3500C5-DR and give me a product store page for them were they are still in stock?

[Shyguy873]

17 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

oh ok thanks. also do you know if you can add fans to anything else in a case? in using the Cooler Master MasterCase H500 ARGB case and i already planned the 5 fans that it supports on it walls, 2 on the right, one on the left, and 2 on the top. were else could i possibly be able to add fans? because if i finish the build there woudl still be an area that is just empty and i feel like something could be there to make the pc run better. here is a pic of an example im talking about from one of linus's videos. is there anything i can put there to make the pc better, whether its more cooling or something else? and can you give me a link to the g.skill FTB-3500C5-D or the g.skill FTB-3500C5-DR and give me a product store page for them were they are still in stock?

 

[Shyguy873]

31 minutes ago, Agall said:

I imagine so. If you take any motherboard and do the measurements, it should be consistent. Its not something I'm willing to perform at this moment, so I'd recommend finding that information or gathering it yourself.

 

Easiest way being to take a set of caliper and measure inner to inner circle, then find the diameter of the holes and add that to the distance you measured between them. That'll put it perfectly center to center without guessing since the holes are equal in diameter (which you should always validate yourself).

do you have any ideas? (see my last response with the image)

[Agall]

14 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

do you have any ideas? (see my last response with the image)

Not really, if you have sufficient intake and exhaust that's standard to the layout of the case, a large case will just have ample internal air volume that'll allow for some leeway due to its heat capacity. Smaller cases or the example of my case is where you get into the extreme, however that system can run with a mesh side panel or solid panel in that configuration with only 2x140mm intake and 2x140mm exhaust. If a +700W system can run with only 4x140mm fans, having anything close to that in a normal system that's 300-400W is plenty, assuming the heatsinks used for the CPU and GPU are sufficient in size with their own fans running at reasonable speeds.

[Shyguy873]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

Not really, if you have sufficient intake and exhaust that's standard to the layout of the case, a large case will just have ample internal air volume that'll allow for some leeway due to its heat capacity. Smaller cases or the example of my case is where you get into the extreme, however that system can run with a mesh side panel or solid panel in that configuration with only 2x140mm intake and 2x140mm exhaust. If a +700W system can run with only 4x140mm fans, having anything close to that in a normal system that's 300-400W is plenty, assuming the heatsinks used for the CPU and GPU are sufficient in size with their own fans running at reasonable speeds.

oh ok so there ain't really anything else to make the pc better whether its cooling or speed? also were you able to find the g.skill FTB-3500C5-D or the g.skill FTB-3500C5-DR in a store were it was still in stock?

[Shyguy873]

11 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

oh ok so there ain't really anything else to make the pc better whether its cooling or speed? also were you able to find the g.skill FTB-3500C5-D or the g.skill FTB-3500C5-DR in a store were it was still in stock?

were you?

[Agall]

4 minutes ago, Shyguy873 said:

oh ok so there ain't really anything else to make the pc better whether its cooling or speed? also were you able to find the g.skill FTB-3500C5-D or the g.skill FTB-3500C5-DR in a store were it was still in stock?

I haven't look for RAM, I'd only be checking Newegg since other mainstream website I don't trust for parts nor recommend because of it.

 

There's a limitation to thermodynamics when factoring in that ambient temperature is your ultimate heatsink in the transfer of the heat out of your system. I have a thread where I go relatively deep into thermodynamics. Requires some understanding of algebra and qualitative analysis to at least understand the mathematics involved, so nothing too crazy.