Coolest (Think Temps) Case??

[RevGAM]

9 hours ago, Kaetemi said:

 

 

Actually running the computer was not among the requirements, just keeping it cool.

Fair enough, but that means you can't plug in the fridge.

 

But, wait, I DID say that... Just now. Go back and look.

[RevGAM]

Fractal Design Torrent Black is on sale for $110+$18 S&H...Today only on NewEgg.

There's also the Compact for $99+$11 S&H.

Meshify 2 for $50+$16 S&H.

Used Fractal Meshify C Dark $70+?

@agall @GuiltySpark_@micha_vulpes@Failure 101@freeagent Should I jump and buy it, or wait until I actually have space (might be a year or three)?

 

Or is there a better deal around the corner during Amazon Prime Week?

[freeagent]

I would buy one if you needed it.. or want  

 

But if you cant use it, then I wouldn't bother.

 

It is a good case though.

[RevGAM]

1 minute ago, freeagent said:

I would buy one if you needed it.. or want  

 

But if you cant use it, then I wouldn't bother.

 

It is a good case though.

What about the other 3 I listed? Do any of them stand up to the first?

[freeagent]

2 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

What about the other 3 I listed? Do any of them stand up to the first?

Well, I have a Meshify C.. The only time its as good or better than my Torrent Compact is when it is loaded with my 120x38 Panafos, or stuffed with iPPC. But even then it will always be loud.

[RevGAM]

1 minute ago, freeagent said:

Well, I have a Meshify C.. The only time its as good or better than my Torrent Compact is when it is loaded with my 120x38 Panafos, or stuffed with iPPC. But even then it will always be loud.

Ok, so which Torrent is better - the Torrent Compact or the Torrent Black? My guess is the latter...

[freeagent]

My experience is that smaller case perform better than larger ones. Most obvious reason is there is less square footage to try and push air through.. second is the fans are closer to the components that need to be cooled. If you are into water cooling a big case is what you want, but not for air cooling.

 

Edit:

 

I have the TC, but I think I should have went with the full sized one. There are concessions to be made with the Compact.. but I still like it.

[RevGAM]

12 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

Buying Junk you don't need is wasteful so...
Am I assuming you are buying these for your testing? 

 

Or are you actually going to use this for a main system? I ask this because frankly I think the Torrent is one of the ugliest cases I have seen in 15 years.

So while its an amazing performer, I don't want it on my desk.

 

Meshify 2 is larger than the C, and typically larger cases perform better than smaller ones ( when speaking in conventional ATX/MATX designs) Its also the cheapest and is designed around 120-140mm fans, and not 180 odd ball fans.

Fair points and questions.

I don't care about appearances. I want to have the best airflow & temps possible.
I need to eventually build a separate computer to become my main, while the one I've got now will be specifically for testing since I cannot modify it without redoing all the tests I've completed on my U12A to date.

If NONE of those cases is a top performer, then I'll be quite content to wait until whatever the BEST is is on sale.

 

Thanks!

[RevGAM]

5 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

the torrent has one of the most open fronts, and has large 180x38mm fans that move a good bit of air. Its going to be hard to beat this case.

Ok. I don't care if it's the black, white or unicorn puke. I can always paint it if I feel the need, which is doubtful. Would you say I should snap it up now or wait for Prime week?

[Agall]

15 hours ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

Fractal Torrent. 
 

That’s it. That’s the list. All of the air in and all of the air out. 

I have my contentions with the FD Torrent. A major problem with the case is if you're running a high wattage system, the power supply can overheat since its only one of two potential forced exhausts.

 

In my opinion, if they shifted the front fans down to the bottom and shifted the PSU forward (using an extension to reach the rear) then adding a 180mm fan to the rear, it would be a perfect case. In its current state, its sacrificing PSU temperatures for GPU temperatures which is a problem on high end system.

 

Here's my expertly drawn illustration of this in my advanced photo editing tool: MS Paint.

 

 

My current setup-ish has existed in several cases, 4000D, FD Torrent, now FD North. I was largely unimpressed with the FD Torrent given its size and fan capacity. Comparably, the FD North is absolute min-max for a mid tower specifically because of the mesh side panel.

 

In reality, the FD North is only good because of the mesh side panel and how open the rear is.

 

[RevGAM]

12 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

The MSRP on the larger torrent case was 189.99 or something, so getting it for 130 seems like a decent deal to me?

 

Anecdotally :
I just wouldn't buy it or anything from Newegg Personally. Every Time I do I get screwed over.

• Define R5 I just ordered from newegg like 2 weeks ago arrived dented, and out of square with the pegs on the moduvent tops being damaged like someone put them in wrong. No damage to the box. The case is actually so dented you cant use the tool-less side panel mechanism.
• Gigabyte Aorus Pro I ordered NEW from newegg arrived missing many accessories including their mini JST to PWM header adaptors
• Asus B550 Tuf ATX purchased "new" had thermal paste on the socket, and the board, Missing IO shield.
• Fractal Ridge case for HTPC box arrived 2 weeks after it launched : serial number On case did not match serial number on the box.
• Ordered a Matched kit of Corsair LPX DDR4 Memory to Upgrade partners PC arrived Not matched, with finger prints all over one stick
• Have never honored the rush shipping surcharge for same day processing : sometimes its taken them weeks to even ship, after paying extra for same day processing without them issuing refund.
• They deleted all of my critical reviews ( and critical reviews of a lot of these products recently - the Aorus Pro and the Fractal Ridge case have been scrubbed of bad reviews despite the latter silently revising its configuration post launch and being downgraded.)

 

Not a single thing I have ordered from newegg ( and only sold and Shipped by newegg as NEW) has yielded a pleasant experience since 2017.

It takes weeks and weeks to get these issues resolved - it took nearly 2 months to get a refund for the Aorus Pro, and the Fractal Ridge after they had received the items back.

I had a very bad experience with NewEgg last year while buying parts from them for this PC. I ended up having to escalate over and over again because the fraud control team went insanely overboard and blocked my account (3, actually, because an agent told me to make a new one, and so FC blocked all 3) BECAUSE I was using gift cards to buy their NewEgg online gift cards to buy the parts! I ended up talking going up to the top dog in customer service.

I ordered my mobo and CPU from them *new* - both were open box (but undamaged).

 

I also ordered the 5000X for my son and myself from there, originally in the cheaper black, but that was the order that got totally blocked by FC, so I missed the sale deadline. I ordered a Phanteks case instead but when I finally got ahold of the boss (right after the Phanteks cases had been shipped out), the boss actually cancelled the shipment and sent me the 5000Xs instead, minus $60 off each and free S&H.

 

I put up a video on my YT channel about my experience. I think that NewEgg is wary of pissing me off, or else I've just been lucky because I've had very little trouble since. Then again, I mostly just order cheap fans from them, but I just received a Rosewill keyboard yesterday that seems fine, and am waiting for a Syba cable tester.

 

On the down-side, I had an order of 3 Asiahorse Fish-Bone fans come with one fan broken from the frame, which was replaced with ease. Another fan was sold by a third-party as being from Vetroo but was actually Aigo, so NewEgg refunded me and didn't want the fan back. I have found several fans on there (and, to be fair, even more on Amazon) that were labeled as one brand but were actually something else).

But, yes, I would definitely urge caution dealing with NewEgg and be ready to FIGHT for your rights if you do order from them. Sometimes, they're the only place I can get certain brands (unless I want to give my data to Aliexpress, which I don't).

[Agall]

Just now, micha_vulpes said:

The ATX/PS2 Standard defines its ability ( and intent) to function as non only an exhaust, but Potentially The Only exhaust in a system.

Its fine The air inside the case is rarely going to creep up above the mid 40's, and power supplies are rated to run well above that.

I'm talking +700W systems, not your standard 400W tops systems.

 

Speaking from experience in testing a balls to the wall OC'd RTX 4090, it matters. Even if the PSU isn't overheating, you'll get lowered efficiency as they heat up.

 

FD Torrent with literally the same hardware setup in a FD North (being my current rig) had markedly higher thermal output from the power supply, enough to be worrying, but at least the Seasonic PSU I had wasn't overheating like the Thermaltake GF3 I had to return. That GF3 wouldn't overheat if I removed the top panel and flipped the PSU around and there wasn't anything physically wrong with its fan/internal airflow to cause it.

[RevGAM]

18 minutes ago, Agall said:

I have my contentions with the FD Torrent. A major problem with the case is if you're running a high wattage system, the power supply can overheat since its only one of two potential forced exhausts.

 

In my opinion, if they shifted the front fans down to the bottom and shifted the PSU forward (using an extension to reach the rear) then adding a 180mm fan to the rear, it would be a perfect case. In its current state, its sacrificing PSU temperatures for GPU temperatures which is a problem on high end system.

 

Here's my expertly drawn illustration of this in my advanced photo editing tool: MS Paint.

 

 

My current setup-ish has existed in several cases, 4000D, FD Torrent, now FD North. I was largely unimpressed with the FD Torrent given its size and fan capacity. Comparably, the FD North is absolute min-max for a mid tower specifically because of the mesh side panel.

 

In reality, the FD North is only good because of the mesh side panel and how open the rear is.

 

So it sounds like you're saying neither the Torrent nor the North, without modification.

[Agall]

1 hour ago, RevGAM said:

Fractal Design Torrent Black is on sale for $110+$18 S&H...Today only on NewEgg.

There's also the Compact for $99+$11 S&H.

Meshify 2 for $50+$16 S&H.

Used Fractal Meshify C Dark $70+?

@agall @GuiltySpark_@micha_vulpes@Failure 101@freeagent Should I jump and buy it, or wait until I actually have space (might be a year or three)?

 

Or is there a better deal around the corner during Amazon Prime Week?

Cases ultimately don't matter in my opinion. They're there to protect the components while compromising cooling, so you pick the level of compromise you're willing to accept.

 

FD Torrent is a nice case for mid tier systems which comes with 5 high quality fans. Just realize you have to run an air cooler, otherwise you're better off buying literally any standard mid tower. Unless you're doing custom water cooling and want to run giant radiators, its a good case, but not perfect.

 

FD North isn't perfect either, they made some weird decisions on motherboard cable routing holes, specifically the lack of one in the top right where motherboards have fan+RGB headers.

 

I'd say the Torrent full is better than the compact, but I've recommended both before. I'd spend the extra $11 to get 3 quality 140mm fans if you're not concerned about size. The other options are your standard mid tower, really not much different than the North, 4000D, etc.

[Agall]

Just now, RevGAM said:

So it sounds like you're saying neither the Torrent nor the North, without modification.

It genuinely depends on your goals. If you want the most compact no compromise case to cool the highest end hardware, the FD North with the mesh side panel wins that by a mile. If you just want a great value case for mid tier hardware, the FD Torrent will be amazing at that price, but just realize if you throw a 5800x3D/7950x3D/13900k and overclocked RTX 4090 in it, your PSU will suffer being an exhaust for a ridiculous amount of heat.

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

Lowered efficiency does not mean that its out of spec or that its dangerous however.

 

If the thermal take was over heating, but not another PSU, then I think you found the fault. The case may have contribute it, but its not the only issue.

 

Its worth nothing here to : most workstations and servers do not have forced exhaust other than the PSU. They all seem to do pretty fine.

 

I think you had a specific problem and are looking for the solution, and you found one that works for you, but it also seems to be a non-problem for most.

Lowered efficiency when drawing +700W can be as high as another 50W draw from the wall. I forget precisely how much I measured, but I remember seeing that myself when I swapped back to a 4000D before getting my FD North. It was at least double digits in my scenario.

 

Like I said, the FD Torrent is a great case for mid tier systems, but don't expect that same performance out of the highest end hardware. a 13900k would be even worse in my scenario in a FD Torrent.

[RevGAM]

9 minutes ago, Agall said:

It genuinely depends on your goals. If you want the most compact no compromise case to cool the highest end hardware, the FD North with the mesh side panel wins that by a mile. If you just want a great value case for mid tier hardware, the FD Torrent will be amazing at that price, but just realize if you throw a 5800x3D/7950x3D/13900k and overclocked RTX 4090 in it, your PSU will suffer being an exhaust for a ridiculous amount of heat.

For this thread, all of those are fine. For my next computer, however, I want the absolute best case for temps/airflow. If that's the best FD, Corsair, Phanteks, Meshroom or whatever, I don't really care. I don't care about looks. I don't need RGB but if that's what I have to buy, so be it.

And, no, I'm not personally looking for a compact for my own computer. But, for this thread, the best compact is a great addition to the list.

Edited July 7, 2023 by RevGAM
Added compact clarification

[RevGAM]

1 minute ago, micha_vulpes said:

To be fair, Just being an American will also mean lowered efficiency too.

Totally taking this out of context, but it made me laugh!

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

To be fair, Just being an American will also mean lowered efficiency too. Its like a 5% differential on 115v vs 230v at 50% load On a Platinum PSU (35 watt), and is a pretty sizable chunk of area under the curve change as well. I guess I am not concerned over 50 watts here or there if the system is stable and up. My old dual socket, dual GPU Dell Precision pulls close to 400 idle and has an 1100 watt PSU *shrugs* Unless its actively doing something Its so far down on its efficiency curve probably 10% of the power draw at idle is PSU waste heat.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate your findings, just nothing that its USUALLY a non-issue and the PSU's are going to be in spec more or less if you have any airflow in the case - even if its top mount.

I agree, I^2 * R losses are a B when you're having to run at proportionally higher amperage due to a lower operating voltage. I've dealt with 480V and 4160V systems in my time, and I'd rather be using 240V myself, but its just not how the US was setup unfortunately.

 

That's also why I specify about the FD Torrent being great in mid tier builds, ones without +550W draw GPUs. Even in a stock clocked RTX 4090 its a different story, but the simple fact that its inferior to a substantially smaller case, the FD North in an extreme environment is an important data point in my opinion. 

 

BTW the only reason I even run my balls to the wall OC on my RTX 4090 is because in games like Warframe, I can notice the dips in frame time consistency unless I'm running my system overclocked. That's one of the few games where I'll see as high as 730W power draw from my system.

 

They just added FSR 2.2 and DLSS to Warframe btw, so that's exciting, but in the light testing I did yesterday, its not worth it for me.

[GuiltySpark_]

53 minutes ago, Agall said:

I have my contentions with the FD Torrent. A major problem with the case is if you're running a high wattage system, the power supply can overheat since its only one of two potential forced exhausts.

The reality is for owners, any one who's tested it, is that doesn't happen. I have a 1000W unit in ECO mode and the fan does not come on when gaming with a 7900x/4090. In fact I don't hear the PC really at all as all 6 case fans and two CPU cooler fans are locked to a static 40% PWM unless the CPU hits 85c (its BIOS configured thermal limit). If encoding/rendering is happening on the CPU, it'll get to 85c and then the fans jump to 60% PWM which is still not really intrusive. 

 

Big fans spinning slowly with little exhaust resistance results in a very cool and quiet system in my experience with this case over the last 6 months. That rear fan is completely unnecessary but was just there to fill in some dark spots. It doesn't hurt or help.

 

 

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

The reality is for owners, any one who's tested it, is that doesn't happen. I have a 1000W unit in ECO mode and the fan does not come on when gaming with a 7900x/4090. In fact I don't hear the PC really at all as all 6 case fans and two CPU cooler fans are locked to a static 40% PWM unless the CPU hits 85c (its BIOS configured thermal limit). If encoding/rendering is happening on the CPU, it'll get to 85c and then the fans jump to 60% PWM which is still not really intrusive. 

 

Big fans spinning slowly with little exhaust resistance results in a very cool and quiet system. in my experience with this case over the last 6 months. That rear fan is completely unnecessary but was just there to fill in some dark spots. It doesn't hurt or help.

 

 

I view the rear fan as explicitly to help the PSU fan out.

 

Feel free to test this: Get a good feel for the heat coming from the PSU with wattage measurements. Then take the top panel off and flip the PSU around. Seal the hole with paper or such to mimic the top panel without covering the PSU fan. See the difference under full sustained load each time.

 

There's a simple solution to this problem and a complex one. The simple one being that FD could just have a perforated top panel that allows the PSU to be rotated without suffocating, or just making it taller with enough room for an intake, and/or designing a bit of an airflow channel coming from the front of the case below the shroud that the PSU fan facing up can use to exhaust.

 

The complex one being my suggestion of moving the PSU forward which would allow for another 180mm fan on the rear as exhaust.

[Agall]

1 minute ago, micha_vulpes said:

Both of these are beyond the scope of the thread I think, However:

If I had a 4090 Id probably be tweaking its power profile. In a lot of cases tossing a bunch of power at it seems to reach diminishing returns ( even stock you can cull 80-100 watts off the power target and only lose like 6% in benchmarks) But I Also leave my main system on all the time running folding at home so I do care about folds per watt ( which actually tends to improve on Nvidia cards when you pull the power down a little, and OC the memory- Usually the core does not seem to impact this much in my testing)

 

I don't really play games much, but in my testing with anything that has DLSS1/2 its such hot garbage i'd rather Just pixel double from 1080p to 4k than run 4k with DLSS. In the games I have with FSR and DLSS, the FSR implementation works better to my eye.

 

Your experience seems to agree with most if not all reviews I have seen of this case... No one cares about PSU thermals because its supposed to be designed to take it.

I think DLSS shines when it lets me do a custom scaling % rather than the fixed values. 85% DLSS is literally free performance at 4K, in some games I can notice at any preset. They really should add a 'ultra quality' preset at 80-85% that I can elect for by default.

 

So far the best game to have the 'quality' preset be practically free performance is Diablo 4. That might just be due to the generally low quality textures in a lot of places that make it harder to tell, even when testing visual quality in 1080p and 1440p vs 4k in a static environment. Game overall looks pretty though.

[GuiltySpark_]

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

I view the rear fan as explicitly to help the PSU fan out.

 

Feel free to test this: Get a good feel for the heat coming from the PSU with wattage measurements. Then take the top panel off and flip the PSU around. Seal the hole with paper or such to mimic the top panel without covering the PSU fan. See the difference under full sustained load each time.

 

There's a simple solution to this problem and a complex one. The simple one being that FD could just have a perforated top panel that allows the PSU to be rotated without suffocating, or just making it taller with enough room for an intake, and/or designing a bit of an airflow channel coming from the front of the case below the shroud that the PSU fan facing up can use to exhaust.

 

The complex one being my suggestion of moving the PSU forward which would allow for another 180mm fan on the rear as exhaust.

See that just seems like a lot of work for no benefit. I'm not interested in those results, I just want to use the PC. It works as is, which is how it was intended to be used.

I'm not interested in diving into solving some problem that may not exist for fun, that sounds like the opposite of fun.  You might be turning a non-issue into a complex problem that only exists in your head. 

[Agall]

34 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

Even In my case ( granted Im not a hi-power set up) Even with my GPU Dumping 70C air into the case, and a downdraught CPU cooler.. My mainboard, VRM, Ram are all below 45C And the air coming out of the PC is about 42c according to a DMM.

The difference in the heat source temperature to heat sink temperature (being the temperature of the air in the chassis) is proportional to heat transfer, but not overall energy in the system. There's always a difference in temperature between the heat source and heat sink, otherwise heat transfer is not occurring, therefore, the temperature of the GPU will always be the highest value, proceeded by somewhat proportionally lower values to the thermal paste, vapor chamber, heat pipes, aluminum fins, air between the fins, air in the case, etc. 

 

Temperature is simply a measurement of the average random molecular kinetic energy in a system, which we generally measure at the heat source. Even measuring the air inside of a case is complicated since the specific heat capacity and heat transfer coefficient of the surrounding materials can affect common ways of measuring that quantity.

 

This is why I'm not referring to temperatures at all, since its not the significant factor in the discussion of total energy in a PC outside of the efficiency of components, since silicon's resistance increases as it gets hotter, therefore requiring higher current and therefore voltage to operate properly. 

 

The discussion I'm having is about total energy in a system, which can be defined as enthalpy, however its more complicated than that. Total wattage draw of the system is a more relatable concept and is measurable, since computers are just space heaters in the context of thermodynamics. All that energy drawn from the wall is converted to heat, mechanical energy, impedance, or capacitance to generalize it, but mostly heat.

[Agall]

16 minutes ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

See that just seems like a lot of work for no benefit. I'm not interested in those results, I just want to use the PC. It works as is, which is how it was intended to be used.

I'm not interested in diving into solving some problem that may not exist for fun, that sounds like the opposite of fun.  You might be turning a non-issue into a complex problem that only exists in your head. 

So you're disagreeing with my testing and conclusion while refusing to validate your own claims and counter points?

 

I enjoy doing tests like that, I'd do it myself if it didn't involve entirely disassembling my system to reassemble it into the FD Torrent collecting dust in my storage room.

 

Its actually quite an easy test to run, you'd only need a total of 10 minutes of workload between the two, and flipping around the power supply twice would take about 5 minutes total. You could go as basic as taking a shirt to cover the hole forward of the power supply to mimic the top cover.