Can Alex stop saying that Macbooks have "A+ build quality" please?

[lambrosgg]

It was on the most recent short circuit and I remember him saying something similar every time he covers macbooks. Yes, Macbooks LOOK LIKE they have excellent build quality, but Louis Rossmann (and others) have time and time again proved that they are in fact NOT well build, with design flows and issues on almost every SKU for years.

 

Build quality means durability in people's mind and you can't tell a product is durable unless you stress test it (not always applicable) or use it for many years. Instead of "A+ build quality" it should be addressed as "feels/looks like it was build with attention" and Apples history with hardware flaws should be addressed at that point as a disclaimer. Same with the fact that Apple is the only company refusing to give 2 years warranty for any of their products, at least in EU where its forced by law. I wouldn't want to buy a macbook because Alex from LTT told me its "A+ build quality" only to find out it got flexgate, or the CPU died because apple put the 19v for the backlight next to the CPU vcore on the PCB.

[filpo]

7 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

Yes, Macbooks LOOK LIKE they have excellent build quality, but Louis Rossmann (and others) have time and time again proved that they are in fact NOT well build, with design flows and issues on almost every SKU for years.

have you touched other windows thin and lights? Microsoft surface isn't bad, neither is xps. But apple are something else. You have to understand how thin and light (get it?) their laptops really are

[lambrosgg]

5 minutes ago, filpo said:

have you touched other windows thin and lights? Microsoft surface isn't bad, neither is xps. But apple are something else. You have to understand how thin and light (get it?) their laptops really are

I have touched Surface tablets and macbooks and I agree Macbooks look and feel better build quality, but they are not. Same like someone can look like a good guy, but it turns out he is not. Alex saying they ARE A+ build quality, when in fact he can't know that just by holding it, is not very professional. He should absolutely acknowledge the feeling and the detail on the outside shell, but not call them "A+ buld quality" with apple's history of #gates.

[filpo]

1 minute ago, lambrosgg said:

I have touched Surface tablets and macbooks and I agree Macbooks look and feel better build quality, but they are not. Same like someone can look like a good guy, but it turns out he is not. Alex saying they ARE A+ build quality, when in fact he can't know it just by holding it, is not very professional. He should absolutely acknowledge the feeling and the detail on them, but not call them "A+ buld quality" with apple's history of #gates.

ye but it is a SHORTcircuit. They just do an unboxing and test of the product. Linus even said this on his video on the release of the new channel called shortcircuit

[Arika]

8 minutes ago, filpo said:

But apple are something else.

Yes they are, are are so much "something else" that it's completely normal and accepted to have defects because their "tolerances are so tight "

 

See the replies

 

And also the responses to screens cracking because a bit of dirt was in the keyboard deck when you closed the lid, or you closed the lid wrong or you held it wrong while it was closed.

[filpo]

Just now, Arika S said:

that it's completely normal and accepted to have defects because their "tolerances are so tight "

Ye I was in favour of Apple. Their products are expensive but their not terrible. A bit like the Noctua of the tech world

[lambrosgg]

12 minutes ago, filpo said:

ye but it is a SHORTcircuit. They just do an unboxing and test of the product. Linus even said this on his video on the release of the new channel called shortcircuit

Exactly my point! its a shortcircuit, so build quality doesn't even need to be addressed! Why say big words like A+ for something you just took out of the box?

 

Please watch at 4.15 

He basically dismisses the fact that it flexes worse than a cheap netbook from 2010 by saying "its more flexible than the 13, but at the same time its an apple product, I am not surprised its an A, A+ build quality"

 

So is the flex test a build quality test or not? If it is, why dismiss it by saying "dont worry this one flexes, its apple, therefore quality" if its not, why do it at all?

[lambrosgg]

3 minutes ago, oofki said:

how would one possibly test for this?  If it got passed apples QA, how would a tech reviewer of any size be able to recognize it’s an issue?

Exactly! You cant test it, therefore you cant tell for sure, so don't say anything or say what you know: It FEELS quality, but Apples history shows it may NOT be quality, up to you (the viewer) to decide.

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

Exactly my point! its a shortcircuit, so build quality doesn't even need to be addressed! Why say big words like A+ for something you just took out of the box?

 

Please watch at 4.15 

He basically dismisses the fact that it flexes worse than a cheap netbook from 2010 by saying "its more flexible than the 13, but at the same time its an apple product, I am not surprised its an A, A+ build quality"

 

So is the flex test a build quality test or not? If it is why dismiss it by saying "dont worry this one flexes, its apple, therefore quality" if its not, why do it at all?

When he says A, A+ I think he’s referencing the 13/14 inch air. I would say based on that, that the 15 air would be a B, B+. I have a 14 inch HP Pavilion and the flex is worse than that, not by much but worse. 

[8tg]

Oh boy it’s another MacBook thread. Time to watch it get 20 replies of shit flinging followed by being locked.

[Arika]

4 minutes ago, filpo said:

Ye I was in favour of Apple. Their products are expensive but their not terrible. A bit like the Noctua of the tech world

So they are expensive, which means their defects are allowed to be written off because they focus on form over function?

 

If I spend $2000aud on a laptop I expect it to have better resilience than a $400 chrome book.

 

[lambrosgg]

3 minutes ago, oofki said:

Saying it’s more flexible than a 13 doesn’t mean it’s more flexible than a cheap netbook from 2010. 

I had an Asus EEE back in the day, and I can tell you it didn't flex like that... I was cringing watching that feeling it will break. 

 

3 minutes ago, filpo said:

When he says A, A+ I think he’s referencing the 13/14 inch air. I would say based on that, that the 15 air would be a B, B+. I have a 14 inch HP Pavilion and the flex is worse than that, not by much but worse. 

No he is definitely referring to the 15 one he is currently holding. 

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

f I spend $2000aud on a laptop I expect it to have better resilience than a $400 chrome book.

The 15 inches flex isn’t terrible. It’s worse than apples other macs for sure but remember it’s a thinner laptop on a bigger footprint so there’s obviously gonna be more flex. 

 

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

because they focus on form over function?

Well no obviously not. Then again they are apple

[lambrosgg]

5 minutes ago, 8tg said:

Oh boy it’s another MacBook thread. Time to watch it get 20 replies of shit flinging followed by being locked.

No its not a Macbook thread. Its a "claiming things you didn't test as fact" thread. I would say exactly the same if any product on any video was called "A+ quality" without some numbers to support it: actual stress testing, longer than usual warranty from the manufacturer, track record of a company making quality stuff (noctua for example).

 

Calling Apple products "A+ build quality" is just worse, because the company has the opposite of a "track record making quality stuff". Their track record is making disposable products, planned obsolescence and design flows with only 1 year warranty, not economically viable repairs, because they expect you to buy the new thing every year.

[seanondemand]

It seems like you’re missing the point of an unboxing. When Alex says “build quality” in the context of an unboxing, he means how something feels when you pull it out of the box and use it, and MacBooks feel really well built. Build quality. 
 

not to mention, there’s an aspect of, how is the build quality relative to other laptop makers, which tend to range from “pretty good on the high end but not as good” to “absolute dogpoop”

[lambrosgg]

5 minutes ago, oofki said:

Warranty has nothing to do with quality. Apple is the most reliable notebook manufacturer out there. They have been for like 2 decades. There’s plenty of data out there and plenty of articles about it. 

LMAO source? How is warranty not directly connected with the manufacturer putting money where their mouth is, saying we know we build a durable product and it wont break, so we will repair it for free for 5 years instead of 1-2 our competitors offer?

 

4 minutes ago, seanondemand said:

It seems like you’re missing the point of an unboxing. When Alex says “build quality” in the context of an unboxing, he means how something feels when you pull it out of the box and use it, and MacBooks feel really well built. Build quality. 
 

not to mention, there’s an aspect of, how is the build quality relative to other laptop makers, which tend to range from “pretty good on the high end but not as good” to “absolute dogpoop”

"Feels like" and "actually is" are very different things. The "feels like", should absolutely be mentioned as a plus for the macbooks. But just because it feels like quality you cant say it is. Especially with Apple's track record of issues with almost every product they ever released. As I mentioned, people associate build quality with durability and longevity, which is something you can't claim on an unboxing.

[filpo]

3 minutes ago, seanondemand said:

It seems like you’re missing the point of an unboxing. When Alex says “build quality” in the context of an unboxing, he means how something feels when you pull it out of the box and use it, and MacBooks feel really well built. Build quality. 
 

not to mention, there’s an aspect of, how is the build quality relative to other laptop makers, which tend to range from “pretty good on the high end but not as good” to “absolute dogpoop”

Exactly 

 

16 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

It FEELS quality, but Apples history shows it may NOT be quality,

That’s what Alex means to be quality 

[lambrosgg]

Just now, filpo said:

Exactly 

 

That’s what Alex means to be quality 

Alex can mean day is night and night is day, but it doesn't make it so. We all need to speak the same language here.

You can't say anything IS "A+ build quality" on an unboxing, period.

You can say it FEELS like "A+ build quality" and it should be said for macbooks.

[seanondemand]

10 minutes ago, lambrosgg said:

"Feels like" and "actually is" are very different things. The "feels like", should absolutely be mentioned as a plus for the macbooks. But just because it feels like quality you cant say it is. Especially with Apple's track record of issues with almost every product they ever released. As I mentioned, people associate build quality with durability and longevity, which is something you can't claim on an unboxing.

Your usage of "build quality" seems to be different than everyone else's, it seems. Again, this is an unboxing, not a deep engineering dive. When I hear someone say "build quality", what that means to me is how something feels. At no point did Alex squish the keyboard down and say, "oh baby that's a stiff keyboard deck there eh this laptop should last a good long time that's some top notch engineering let's play some valheim"

[lambrosgg]

2 minutes ago, oofki said:

https://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/laptopreliability-a7029273631/

 

https://www.techjunkie.com/most-reliable-laptop-brand/

https://computertechnicians.com.au/which-laptop-brands-are-most-reliable-in-2022/

https://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/rescuecom-2018-computer-reliability-report.aspx

 

etc etc etc. No other brand has consistently been anywhere near them for decades. Yes they have some bad years. Overall no one else comes close. 

Are you serious? DId u even read those or you googled "macbooks most reliable survey" or something? The only one citing an actual survey is the first one saying "Consumer Reports survey, as they have in previous years. Our latest survey of more than 58,000 laptop owners" 58.000 laptop owners? PCs or macs? what percentage on that 58k is macbooks? The number I want to know is the percentage of defective apple products. Also take note that people tend to be more careful of their apple baby that cost 1000+ than the HP crap they got for 200 at best buy.

[lambrosgg]

4 minutes ago, seanondemand said:

Your usage of "build quality" seems to be different than everyone else's, it seems. Again, this is an unboxing, not a deep engineering dive. When I hear someone say "build quality", what that means to me is how something feels. At no point did Alex squish the keyboard down and say, "oh baby that's a stiff keyboard deck there eh this laptop should last a good long time that's some top notch engineering let's play some valheim"

No build quality has a specific meaning and you can google that (spoiler alert, its how a product is actually built, not how it feels like) YOU maybe have the context of "its just an unboxing he cant possibly know if the build quality is good, so he must mean it just feels like it is" but most people dont. Many people will base their buying decision on Alex saying it IS "A+ build quality" since they trust him more than the other Apple friendly channels out there and expect to get a durable laptop that will last long, which most likely won't (given apple's track record)

[lambrosgg]

12 minutes ago, oofki said:

1) I said there’s a lot of data AND articles.  Yes, 2 of those are articles 

2) 2/4 of the 4 links cite their sources, not 1

3) do you have proof apple laptops are low quality? I proved they are high quality with data. You have not done the opposite.

I’m done engaging with you. You lie about the facts. You lie about what I posted (2 surveys, not 1). You don’t provide any data yourself, but demand others do. You try to twist what people say (I said data AND articles).  You try to inject hyperbole when facts are presented (like Mac owners coddle their computers). You clearly have a raging blind hate for Apple, despite the facts. You are not constructive or objective. Good luck with that. 

Here you go buddy.

 

https://affordablecomputerrepairs.com.au/macbook-faults-2017-2020/

https://youtu.be/AUaJ8pDlxi8

https://youtu.be/GuWUUTNg9r4

 

https://youtu.be/7cNg_ifibCQ

 

And thats only for macbooks, iphones, ipads and almost every apple product ever had some kind of flaw.

[CuriousBread]

For cars you can quantify build quality with metrics like tolerances. 

Examples:

1. The range of this Toyota's panel gap is 0.0001mm between all the door panels. This shows it has good manufacturing control in build quality and tight tolerances. 
2. The crankshaft is overbuilt for the car's power, it can reliably handle power output by 3x before risking failure. This shows it has good reliability and tuning potentials. 

What Alex seems to be saying when he refers to "build quality" he seems to be actually referring to fit and finish. Like a new Hyundai that rolls off the lot if the dealer has meticulously polished and detailed it before selling. It'll look nice off the lot, but in detail the ACTUAL build quality and reliability shows with use and requires accurate measurements. 

 

I hope LTT lab would bring some measurable quantities to back up the arguments that certain products have good build quality. 

[Leychee]

This is just being pedantic at this point. As many people said on this thread, it was a ShortCircuit video, and "build quality" refers to how you perceive a product after trying it or using it for some time. It's a first impression, it's obvious given the context. 

[lambrosgg]

35 minutes ago, Leychee said:

This is just being pedantic at this point. As many people said on this thread, it was a ShortCircuit video, and "build quality" refers to how you perceive a product after trying it or using it for some time. It's a first impression, it's obvious given the context. 

Is it obvious for everyone in a world where people watch and trust "paid reviews" and base buying decisions on unboxings and first impressions videos? I am pretty sure its not obvious even for the majority of LTT viewers.
"We" all know that if Apple provided you with a sample, you didn't really make a "review" of that product, because Apple doesn't allow negativity on their product "reviews", unless the solution to that negative point is to buy the more expensive one or "wait for an update to fix it" LTT never accepted that (respect) so they distanced themselves from Apple. That gives them extra credibility when covering Apple products. That's why they should be extra careful covering them, because people trust them more. And saying something is "A+ build quality" without any numbers to support that claim, is wrong. Would you accept an "A+ performance" claim for any product without some benchmarks? Why you accept an "A+ build quality" claim without any numbers then? Especially on products that have a bad history in build quality.

 

36 minutes ago, CuriousBread said:

I hope LTT lab would bring some measurable quantities to back up the arguments that certain products have good build quality. 

That would be very hard to be done properly. You will need multiple SCIENTIFIC stress tests (not the "we did a random drop on concrete" useless tests on YT) PCB inspection by an actual repairman or engineer and actually using the product for at least 1 year imo.