What guage speaker wire do I need?

[FineVisionz]

I'm running this amp to power this bass shaker.

The amp is 50W x 2 at 12v 5a

 

I'm using these aviation connectors because they can carry 4 signals in one connector and they're screwed onto one another to eliminate any chances of them coming disconnected by accident.

 

I am in the process of making my own quick detach cable so I can hide away the cables when not in use. I want to run 4 speaker wires in the same cable seen here. I need clarification on the thinnest gauge I can use.

 

Thanks!

[johnt]

Yup 14 gauge will work here. Cool toy!

[mariushm]

 

You'll probably be fine with AWG20 or AWG18 wires (~ 0.75mm copper diameter). Even thinner wire will probably be fine, considering it's just a few feet / meters of wire.

 

I would suggest TE's M12 connectors, the 4 pin versions support up to AWG22 wires (which is thinner than awg20 or awg18):

 

female : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/T4110002041-000/6679504

male : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/T4111002041-000/8537345

 

Big long PDF that presents M8 and M12 series : https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?&Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1-1773701-8_M8M12_CONNECTOR_SYSTEM&DocType=CS&DocLang=English&DocFilename=ENG_CS_1-1773701-8_M8M12_CONNECTOR_SYSTEM_0914.pdf

 

Connectors are rated for up to 250v , up to 4A per pin, which is plenty. 

 

That amplifier won't do 50w per channel with 12v.  It uses TPA3116, here's the datasheet : https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf

It can do 50w 4ohm BTL mode with 21v input voltage, not 12v.  BTL means one chip combining the two channels into a single mono channel, so only applies if that amplifier uses two separate TPA3116 chips , one for each channel. 

 

With 12v, with a chip configured in BTL mode, you're looking at maybe 15 watts before the distortions go over what's reasonable : 

 

and if that's not clear, there's another graph ... go right to 12v and up to blue line, and you can see it barely does 15w with 12v input : 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnt]

I will add to my previous comment that I am not fully sure I understand why you’re adding the complication of an aviator connector and a 4 conductor wire… Do you have two units that you plan to place right next to each other? I think banana plugs and traditional speaker cable will serve you just as well here.

 

Also, the claims from that little amp are bold. I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t end up underutilizing the kickers bc the amp can’t really keep up. I suppose distortion doesn’t matter here, but overloading this amp is your biggest issue here.

[FineVisionz]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:27 AM, johnt said:

I will add to my previous comment that I am not fully sure I understand why you’re adding the complication of an aviator connector and a 4 conductor wire… Do you have two units that you plan to place right next to each other? I think banana plugs and traditional speaker cable will serve you just as well here.

 

Also, the claims from that little amp are bold. I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t end up underutilizing the kickers bc the amp can’t really keep up. I suppose distortion doesn’t matter here, but overloading this amp is your biggest issue here.

I know, my use is a little unique.  But yes, I want two sets of speaker wires to run two bass shakers.  The aviation plugs do this neatly as I can run all 4 cables in one run.  On top of that, the connection is secure and I can easily un-connect them when I want to hide the cable. 

The bass shakers are being used on my office chair, so when I'm not gaming/movie watching I can tuck the cable away for a cleaner look.

[FineVisionz]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:18 AM, mariushm said:

 

You'll probably be fine with AWG20 or AWG18 wires (~ 0.75mm copper diameter). Even thinner wire will probably be fine, considering it's just a few feet / meters of wire.

 

I would suggest TE's M12 connectors, the 4 pin versions support up to AWG22 wires (which is thinner than awg20 or awg18):

 

female : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/T4110002041-000/6679504

male : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/T4111002041-000/8537345

 

Big long PDF that presents M8 and M12 series : https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?&Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1-1773701-8_M8M12_CONNECTOR_SYSTEM&DocType=CS&DocLang=English&DocFilename=ENG_CS_1-1773701-8_M8M12_CONNECTOR_SYSTEM_0914.pdf

 

Connectors are rated for up to 250v , up to 4A per pin, which is plenty. 

 

That amplifier won't do 50w per channel with 12v.  It uses TPA3116, here's the datasheet : https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf

It can do 50w 4ohm BTL mode with 21v input voltage, not 12v.  BTL means one chip combining the two channels into a single mono channel, so only applies if that amplifier uses two separate TPA3116 chips , one for each channel. 

 

With 12v, with a chip configured in BTL mode, you're looking at maybe 15 watts before the distortions go over what's reasonable : 

 

and if that's not clear, there's another graph ... go right to 12v and up to blue line, and you can see it barely does 15w with 12v input : 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wow!  Thank you for pointing this out!!  I'll take a look at those connectors.  

Is there any way possible I can feed the amp the proper 21v input?

 

I'm currently using the amp and feeding it into Voicemeeter Banna where I'm able to set an EQ so I can cut out the highs and it works pretty well.  But now that you point out that I am under-powering it, I would like to get the full potential out of my gear if possible.

 

A link to a power supply to do so would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

I want to add that I originally had this subwoofer amplifier but it did NOT power the shakers very well at all even though it advertises 100W max.  I thought this would be a better route since it would cut out the highs for me.  But I returned it and got the Nob sound one instead as it actually the one that almost every youtube tutorial recommends...  I would like to feed it 21v to get the proper performance/less distortion if possible though!

[mariushm]

If you read the description of the subwoofer amplifier, you can see that it uses the same TPA3116 chip as the other small amplifier, so the same limitations applied to that one.

It's just a TPA3116 in BTL mode (to get one mono channel and higher output watts from a 2 channel amplifier chip) so it also needed higher than 12v voltage to output that amount of power. You can see in pictures that it even prints 12-24v by the barrel jack (though not sure how recommended 24v is, maybe 20-22v would be safer)

 

You can use step-up (boost) converters to boost your 12v to 20-24v, that's what most proper car amplifiers have inside.

For example, here's a 8-16v -> 16v..34v 65w power supply : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/abb-power-conversion/ABXS002A3X41-SRZ/6010249

It does need a resistor to set the output voltage and some capacitors (the values are listed in datasheet, ex 20v  12.798kOhm, 22v 11.567kOhm 24 10.553kOhm so you could use a 12k resistor to get around 20.5v or 11k for 23v) but that means you need a soldering iron and skills to configure the power supply before using it.

 

Another example, 28$ for 50w power supply: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mornsun-america-llc/URB2424LD-50WR3/16348467

Easier to connect wires to it.

 

If you want something that needs no external part or soldering, you can also find ready made power supplies but usually they're bigger and more expensive.

For example this one costs 42$ and does 9.5v..18v input, 24v out (adjustable 23v..30v)  : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/SD-100A-24/7706478

Needs at least 10v to do 100w, below that it's only guaranteed to do 80w or more.

 

or you maybe get a proper car amplifier

[FineVisionz]

5 hours ago, mariushm said:

If you read the description of the subwoofer amplifier, you can see that it uses the same TPA3116 chip as the other small amplifier, so the same limitations applied to that one.

It's just a TPA3116 in BTL mode (to get one mono channel and higher output watts from a 2 channel amplifier chip) so it also needed higher than 12v voltage to output that amount of power. You can see in pictures that it even prints 12-24v by the barrel jack (though not sure how recommended 24v is, maybe 20-22v would be safer)

 

You can use step-up (boost) converters to boost your 12v to 20-24v, that's what most proper car amplifiers have inside.

For example, here's a 8-16v -> 16v..34v 65w power supply : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/abb-power-conversion/ABXS002A3X41-SRZ/6010249

It does need a resistor to set the output voltage and some capacitors (the values are listed in datasheet, ex 20v  12.798kOhm, 22v 11.567kOhm 24 10.553kOhm so you could use a 12k resistor to get around 20.5v or 11k for 23v) but that means you need a soldering iron and skills to configure the power supply before using it.

 

Another example, 28$ for 50w power supply: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mornsun-america-llc/URB2424LD-50WR3/16348467

Easier to connect wires to it.

 

If you want something that needs no external part or soldering, you can also find ready made power supplies but usually they're bigger and more expensive.

For example this one costs 42$ and does 9.5v..18v input, 24v out (adjustable 23v..30v)  : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/SD-100A-24/7706478

Needs at least 10v to do 100w, below that it's only guaranteed to do 80w or more.

 

or you maybe get a proper car amplifier

would this not work? https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Cordless-Perfect-Battery-Charger/dp/B07915GBF5/ref=sr_1_9?crid=36O8SVDFZ4KXE&keywords=21v+power+supply&qid=1684048808&sprefix=21v+power%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-9

 

I plan on just keeping the Nobsound one

[mariushm]

2 minutes ago, FineVisionz said:

would this not work? https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Cordless-Perfect-Battery-Charger/dp/B07915GBF5/ref=sr_1_9?crid=36O8SVDFZ4KXE&keywords=21v+power+supply&qid=1684048808&sprefix=21v+power%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-9

 

I plan on just keeping the Nobsound one

 

I linked to products that accept 12v DC (a range that includes 12v, because your car could have as low as 10v and as high as 14v while the alternator works) and produces a higher voltage.

 

The stuff you linked to outputs 21v at 1A , so 21 watts... but it needs 110v AC or higher to work.  It won't work in a car unless you use an inverter to produce 110-230v AC.

The title is completely wrong... or maybe the pictures are incorrect.

Don't trust products from third party sellers on Amazon, do the research, inspect pictures and everything.

 

If you don't mind using AC powered adapters, the same store I linked to previously has a bunch of them, and you can be sure they're quality ones, not some chinese noname crap.

 

Here's for example all AC to DC wallwarts that outputs 20-24v, with a maximum power between 24w and 100w, sorted by price : https://www.digikey.com/short/4p1qdbf5

 

You can get a 24v 60-65w adapter for around $18 plus shipping :

65w : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/qualtek/QFWB-65-24-US01/8260134

60w : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/GST60A24-P1M/10659881

60w : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/globtek-inc/TR9CI2500LCP-N-R6B/8598079

 

 

36w modes start from around $12 : https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/tri-mag-llc/L6R36-240/7682646

 

 

You multiply voltage by current and you get power, watts. example 24v x 1A = 24 watts.

The amplifier will be around 90-95% efficient, so if you buy a 24w adapter, you'll only get around 20-22 watts of audio at most.

Note that if you don't mind using a power supply with AC input, it may be cheaper or more convenient to get a laptop adapter brick that outputs 18...20v ex 18.5v and 19v are very common for laptops, so you could get 65w-90w adapters quite easily. But again, recommend against no-name chinese crap from Amazon, often such laptop adapters are made using old circuit boards from recycled older laptop adapters, they take aged degraded electronics and solder wires and put the old boards in new plastic cases and sell as new.

 

 

 

[FineVisionz]

4 minutes ago, mariushm said:

 

I linked to products that accept 12v DC (a range that includes 12v, because your car could have as low as 10v and as high as 14v while the alternator works) and produces a higher voltage.

 

The stuff you linked to outputs 21v at 1A , so 21 watts... but it needs 110v AC or higher to work.  It won't work in a car unless you use an inverter to produce 110-230v AC.

 

Maybe some slight confusion? I'm not using this in a car, but for my office/gaming setup at home

[mariushm]

6 hours ago, FineVisionz said:

Maybe some slight confusion? I'm not using this in a car, but for my office/gaming setup at home

The bass shakers you linked to are for cars, and the amplifier came with 12v power supplies, so I assumed you want to add bass to your car and you wanted an amplifier compatible with 12v input voltage ... The bass shakers rely on the actual car frame and everything to produce that bass. So you need to at very least install them in some wood boxes or something if you want bass ... I'd say a box at least around 30-50 liters (or sort of like a mini tower pc case)

Anyway, i gave you plenty of links to power supplies, all should work much better than no-name amazon products.

[FineVisionz]

43 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The bass shakers you linked to are for cars, and the amplifier came with 12v power supplies, so I assumed you want to add bass to your car and you wanted an amplifier compatible with 12v input voltage ... The bass shakers rely on the actual car frame and everything to produce that bass. So you need to at very least install them in some wood boxes or something if you want bass ... I'd say a box at least around 30-50 liters (or sort of like a mini tower pc case)

Anyway, i gave you plenty of links to power supplies, all should work much better than no-name amazon products.

Interesting, I was under the impression that these bass shakers are made for home theaters, to be installed on the under side of couches/seats with the purpose of vibrating to give you a more emersive effect, not necessarily add any sound.

 

"The Aurasound AST-2B-4 Pro Bass Shaker literally sends sonic vibrations through the material to which it is attached, enabling you to feel the earth-shaking bass from your music, movies, or video game soundtracks."

 

Appreciate you're time and help, I'll order one of the wall plugs you have linked.

Thanks