Help picking the best combination, 7900x vs 13700k

[Chriexpe]

Budget (including currency): $1000

Country: Brazil

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: mostly for gaming and internet browsing, tho I'll be honest, most of these specs are a bit exaggerated (i7 where a i5 13600k would be enough and 2*32GB ram instead of 2*16GB) because somewhere sometime in the near future I may use this as my main Unraid server, tho I'm really tempted in testing it as soon as I buy by creating a gaming VM for me (to be fair the games that I play aren't affected by VM, mostly are singleplayer).

Other details: I plan to play in 1440p w/ 6900xt/7900xt at 144hz, I do already have all peripherals, storage, USB DAC, 850w PSU (XPG Core Reactor) and case. So only CPU, Mobo, RAM and Cooler is needed (GPU too, but I'll buy it later).

Given this info I've gathered prices from some parts that are sold here, just so you'd have some idea over what is the best combination to pick, and if you have any better recommendation of RAM/CPU from Aliexpress please post it here.

 

AMD CPU:

7900x -  $470
7900x3D - $620
7950x - $615
7950x3D - $735

 

AM5 Motherboard:

MSI Mag B650 Tomahawk - $280
Asrock B650 Pro RS - $248
Gigabyte B650 Gaming X - $206 (apparently it has better RAM support)
Asrock B650 Pro RS - $248 (compared to these mobos this one has better VRM)

 

DDR5 RAM:

Kingston Fury Beast DDR5 32GB 5600Mhz KF556C40BB-32 - $115

 

Intel CPU:

13700k - $429
13900k - $630

 

Intel Motherboard:

Gigabyte Z690 UD AX DDR4 - $237
Asus TUF Z690-Plus DDR4 - $248
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 - $178 (apparently this one has better VRM compared to the two above)

 

DDR4 RAM:

Kingston Fury Beast DDR4 32GB 3600Mhz C18 - $80
Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro (32GB*2) 64GB DDR4 3600Mhz CMW64GX4M2D3600C18 - $182

 

Coolers:

Water Cooler Aigo TR360/AC360/AT360/DX360 360mm - $76
Water Cooler MSI MAG CoreLiquid P360 360mm - $133
Water Cooler Corsair H150I Icue Elite 360mm - $190
Water Cooler Corsair H150 360mm - $135
Water Cooler Adata XPG Hydro Levante 360mm - $85
Water Cooler EVGA CLC 360mm - $148

Please recommend any air cooler if it is better than these options above.

 

Yup kinda pricey but there's not much I can do about that.

But I won't lie, I'm leaning towards 13700k + MSI Pro Z690-A + 2*32GB DDR4 RAM + Adata/MSI Water Cooler, cheaper? Yes, but idk if there is any other reasonable combination here with good cost-performance ratio.

About the Unraid server, I won't use more than 3 hdds and 2 m.2 nvme, but water cooler might not be the best option for running 24/7.

 

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Chriexpe said:

AM5 Motherboard:

MSI Mag B650 Tomahawk - $280
Asrock B650 Pro RS - $248
Gigabyte B650 Gaming X - $206 (apparently it has better RAM support)
Asrock B650 Pro RS - $248 (compared to these mobos this one has better VRM)

All of those boards will be within margin of error of each other for all tasks, you're really better off just getting whichever is cheapest (in this case the Gaming X). 

 

Also all of their VRMs are pretty overkill, and with AM5 memory support is across the board equivalent between boards with the exception of the 6 layer boards. 

4 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

AMD CPU:

7900x -  $470
7900x3D - $620
7950x - $615
7950x3D - $735

For what you said your workload is, the 7800X3D is almost certainly the better option for you. If you really want to have more cores for something, go 7900X as you really don't need 16 cores for what you say you're going to be doing and the hybrid X3D CPUs are really weird for performance and scheduling. 

 

With what you say you're trying to do, going AMD is the better option. It's slightly more expensive up front, yes, but you get a better upgrade path, significantly lower power consumption (very important for a server), and you don't have to deal with a heterogeneous architecture like you will on Intel. Plus then you could get by with an air cooler and not have to deal with running an AIO in a server. 

[jaslion]

Some things first. Z690 doesn't work without a bios update and 600 series normally do not get a factory install of the new bios so the board has to have a bios flashback function.

 

Ddr5 you want 6000mhz cl16 minimum otherwise ddr4 3200 cl 16 is faster in most cases.

 

Skip the 13900k its borderline uncoolable unless you REALLY set up for it well. Since you didn't list the case I don't know what to recommend.

 

In the end as you said a 13600k is already overkill so I really would just get that. Don't even need a z series board either as these cpu's are basically not overclockable as they are running on the bleeding edge of stability already.

 

A fair few of the aio's get beaten by simpler cheaper air coolers along the lines of a ak620, thermalright assasin 120,... but again it REALLY depends on your case so please list that.

 

 

[Chriexpe]

4 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

All of those boards will be within margin of error of each other for all tasks, you're really better off just getting whichever is cheapest (in this case the Gaming X). 

 

Also all of their VRMs are pretty overkill, and with AM5 memory support is across the board equivalent between boards with the exception of the 6 layer boards. 

For what you said your workload is, the 7800X3D is almost certainly the better option for you. If you really want to have more cores for something, go 7900X as you really don't need 16 cores for what you say you're going to be doing and the hybrid X3D CPUs are really weird for performance and scheduling.

Yup, and I've searched for other motherboards and I found this MSI Pro B650-P, slightly cheaper ($200) while having better VRM (apparently other boards 8+2+1 w/ 53A might struggle with 7950x, so just imagine any future CPU), but I don't know their reputation.

4 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

With what you say you're trying to do, going AMD is the better option. It's slightly more expensive up front, yes, but you get a better upgrade path, significantly lower power consumption (very important for a server), and you don't have to deal with a heterogeneous architecture like you will on Intel. Plus then you could get by with an air cooler and not have to deal with running an AIO in a server. 

Ok, this really convinced me going AMD, and now it seems to be the obvious option lol, thanks!

4 hours ago, jaslion said:

Some things first. Z690 doesn't work without a bios update and 600 series normally do not get a factory install of the new bios so the board has to have a bios flashback function.

That's something that I overlooked, I guess only that board from Gigabyte has bios flashback.

4 hours ago, jaslion said:

Ddr5 you want 6000mhz cl16 minimum otherwise ddr4 3200 cl 16 is faster in most cases.

I haven't read much about but CL36 5600MT/s has kinda the same performance as 3200MHz CL16/18? So aside from price virtually both have the same performance whereas DDR5 has an edge in throughput?

4 hours ago, jaslion said:

In the end as you said a 13600k is already overkill so I really would just get that. Don't even need a z series board either as these cpu's are basically not overclockable as they are running on the bleeding edge of stability already.

Yep, only if I get lucky in silicon lottery, but stability wise overclocking in a server isn't good anyway.

4 hours ago, jaslion said:

A fair few of the aio's get beaten by simpler cheaper air coolers along the lines of a ak620, thermalright assasin 120,... but again it REALLY depends on your case so please list that.

I'm leaning towards something like Scythe Ninja 5 (as I can't find Fuma 2 anywhere), and about the case things get a bit wild, it's a open case but I'll install it inside a (well ventilated ofc) server case with switches router and etc.

[RONOTHAN##]

7 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

Yup, and I've searched for other motherboards and I found this MSI Pro B650-P, slightly cheaper ($200) while having better VRM (apparently other boards 8+2+1 w/ 53A might struggle with 7950x, so just imagine any future CPU), but I don't know their reputation

The 7950X is already borderline uncoolable, I'd have a hard time believing a lower end VRM like that having issues even with newer CPUs. The B650-P is a decent option, though I do personally prefer Gigabyte's BIOS and would probably spend the extra $6 for it personally. 

 

10 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

That's something that I overlooked, I guess only that board from Gigabyte has bios flashback.

The only board you listed that doesn't have it is the Z690 TUF, everything else does. 

[Chriexpe]

17 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

The 7950X is already borderline uncoolable, I'd have a hard time believing a lower end VRM like that having issues even with newer CPUs. The B650-P is a decent option, though I do personally prefer Gigabyte's BIOS and would probably spend the extra $6 for it personally. 

 

The only board you listed that doesn't have it is the Z690 TUF, everything else does. 

What do you say about Asrock X670E PG Lightning and Asus TUF Gaming X670E-Plus? Both are at $300, are they really worth it? Considering the feature set I don't see any advantage, only that their VRM are better.

22 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Also all of their VRMs are pretty overkill, and with AM5 memory support is across the board equivalent between boards with the exception of the 6 layer boards.

Btw both of these $200 boards (Gigabyte and MSI) are 6 layers (but with "double copper"), as you mentioned, would they have memory problems? Also I've found an brand-new 7900x for $380, so I guess I have a bit more margin for any other part anyway.

[RONOTHAN##]

9 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

What do you say about Asrock X670E PG Lightning and Asus TUF Gaming X670E-Plus? Both are at $300, are they really worth it? Considering the feature set I don't see any advantage, only that their VRM are better.

I wouldn't really spend the money unless you have a good reason to. The only real reason to go for X670 instead of B650 is if either you need a feature that's only on an X670 board (x8/x8 support, for instance) or more SATA ports. If you don't need either, B650 is almost certainly going to be enough and you might as well save $50. 

 

10 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

Btw both of these $200 boards (Gigabyte and MSI) are 6 layers (but with "double copper"), as you mentioned, would they have memory problems? Also I've found an brand-new 7900x for $380, so I guess I have a bit more margin for any other part anyway.

I could've sworn they were both 8 layer boards, but I just checked and yeah, you're right. Some of the 6 layer boards are still OK with memory support, can do 6000+ with a good CPU and none I've can't do 5600, but for both future memory support I would spend the extra on an 8 layer board like the Pro RS or a B650 Aorus Elite. 

[Chriexpe]

4 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I wouldn't really spend the money unless you have a good reason to. The only real reason to go for X670 instead of B650 is if either you need a feature that's only on an X670 board (x8/x8 support, for instance) or more SATA ports. If you don't need either, B650 is almost certainly going to be enough and you might as well save $50. 

 

I could've sworn they were both 8 layer boards, but I just checked and yeah, you're right. Some of the 6 layer boards are still OK with memory support, can do 6000+ with a good CPU and none I've can't do 5600, but for both future memory support I would spend the extra on an 8 layer board like the Pro RS or a B650 Aorus Elite. 

After watching HUB review of these B650/X670, even tho b650 Gigabyte Gaming X has worse VRM (8x60A) and 6 layer PCB, they always held the lead with RAM frequency (6000MT/s), while other boards such as Asrock b650 Pro RS had issues with it (on the test there was no BIOS support to that, but now both have same 6400MT/s support), also now that you have mentioned it, B650 Aorus Elite seems to be the best option all around, tho it costs $275 meanwhile Gaming X is $206 and Pro RS is $248.

[RONOTHAN##]

15 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

After watching HUB review of these B650/X670, even tho b650 Gigabyte Gaming X has worse VRM (8x60A) and 6 layer PCB, they always held the lead with RAM frequency (6000MT/s), while other boards such as Asrock b650 Pro RS had issues with it (on the test there was no BIOS support to that, but now both have same 6400MT/s support), also now that you have mentioned it, B650 Aorus Elite seems to be the best option all around, tho it costs $275 meanwhile Gaming X is $206 and Pro RS is $248.

I do know the B650 LiveMixer is another 8 layer board, and that board is definitely capable of 6400 on current BIOS revisions. Knowing how a lot of board vendors work, they usually copy-paste memory topologies around depending on what they have already designed and would fit in that layer count, so I'd assume those boards have the same topology and therefore memory support. The BIOS revision for the HUB review was probably a bad BIOS, but that said, they have a completely different QVL, and usually if the topology is the same the QVL will be the same, so that assumption could be wrong. 

 

I have used the Aorus Elite, it is a pretty good board, though whether I'd spend extra over the Pro RS is a different story. 

[Chriexpe]

19 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I do know the B650 LiveMixer is another 8 layer board, and that board is definitely capable of 6400 on current BIOS revisions. Knowing how a lot of board vendors work, they usually copy-paste memory topologies around depending on what they have already designed and would fit in that layer count, so I'd assume those boards have the same topology and therefore memory support. The BIOS revision for the HUB review was probably a bad BIOS, but that said, they have a completely different QVL, and usually if the topology is the same the QVL will be the same, so that assumption could be wrong. 

 

I have used the Aorus Elite, it is a pretty good board, though whether I'd spend extra over the Pro RS is a different story. 

Thanks for the info!

So these are the parts that I'll probably end up buying, any advice?

7900x - $383

B650 Aorus Elite $275

Thermalright PS120 SE - $58 | I wanted FC140 but it's double the price ($50 just for shipping)...
Trident Z5 2x16G 6000CL30 TZ5RK -$216 | This suspicious Asgard RAM that may have a good latency if lowered down to 6000MT/s

GPU I have three options:

Gigabyte 6900 XT - $690

Sapphire Nitro+ 6900 XT - $790

XFX Merc 310 7900 XT - $1000

 

There's also Nvidia cards but I'm not much into them (and are considerably more expensive), Gigabyte Eagle 4070 $790 and 4080 for $1300

[RONOTHAN##]

25 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

Trident Z5 2x16G 6000CL30 TZ5RK -$216 | This suspicious Asgard RAM that may have a good latency if lowered down to 6000MT/s

The Trident kit is solid, though personally I'd probably get the Asgard kit. There are only a few RAM PCB vendors and 4 total RAM IC vendors (Hynix, Micron, Samsung, SpecTek), only one of which could be in those memory bins (Hynix A die), so in practice this will more than likely be identical to a TeamGroup kit in the same speed bin. No idea how their warranty would work though, so I wouldn't blame you for sticking to the G.Skill kit. 

 

As for A die, it pretty consistently does 6000 CL30-38-38-28 1.35V, as well as 8000 CL38-48-48-38 1.5V, so if you just manually enter the memory settings it should just work at 6000 CL30. It'll probably even do 6200 CL30 if you want to dial in the SOC voltage and FCLK a little bit. 

 

43 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

Gigabyte 6900 XT - $690

Sapphire Nitro+ 6900 XT - $790

XFX Merc 310 7900 XT - $1000

That's a bit of a tough one. On one hand, the Gigabyte 6900 XTs are arguably the worst outside the reference cards, though the Nitro+ isn't worth $100 more and the Gigabyte card should still be fine if you aren't trying to unlock power limits and overclock the hell out of it. The 7900 XT at $1000 is also a bit of a tough sell compared to the 6900 XTs, it's only 25% faster for 45% more cost, but in the context of the price of a full system the math would seem it would be worth it (25% faster for 20% more system cost). Whether or not you'll use the extra performance is a different story. 

 

52 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

There's also Nvidia cards but I'm not much into them (and are considerably more expensive), Gigabyte Eagle 4070 $790 and 4080 for $1300

Yeah, at those prices they aren't really worth considering unless you are doing AI or CUDA accelerated work that really benefits from Nvidia cards. For what you say your doing I wouldn't bother. 

[Chriexpe]

On 5/2/2023 at 12:48 AM, RONOTHAN## said:

As for A die, it pretty consistently does 6000 CL30-38-38-28 1.35V, as well as 8000 CL38-48-48-38 1.5V, so if you just manually enter the memory settings it should just work at 6000 CL30. It'll probably even do 6200 CL30 if you want to dial in the SOC voltage and FCLK a little bit. 

Really? That sounds pretty good! I just think it's curious that it's expensive on Aliexpress compared to USA even tho these things are manufactured there, also I've found this from Newegg, but I don't think if it's worth the extra hassle for shipping (+$30) as there's no return in case of custom duty, but anyway, I've found a promo code that lowered down that Asgard 16GBx2 7200MHz to $193, I guess if in a near future I end up upgrading the CPU hopefully I'll be able to run at those higher frequencies.

 

On 5/2/2023 at 12:48 AM, RONOTHAN## said:

but in the context of the price of a full system the math would seem it would be worth it (25% faster for 20% more system cost)

That's a good point, and the prices that I mentioned are from a neighbor country that I can buy there, here the cheapest is a $1270 7900xt Sapphire Pulse lol. Too bad there's not much info about that 7900xt Merc card, no idea if it's any better than Gigabyte or other cards.

[RONOTHAN##]

2 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

Too bad there's not much info about that 7900xt Merc card, no idea if it's any better than Gigabyte or other cards.

With the 7900 XTs, as long as it's not a reference card it's good. I would be perfectly happy with a Merc if it's at a good price. 

 

There was a bit of variance with the 6900 XTs and 6950 XTs because the reference design had a design flaw with it (very little input filtering), and most AMD AIBs just copy-paste the reference design so all but a handful of cards had very weak input filters. Plus there was the issue where there were two different 6900 XTs, the XTX core and the XTXH where the XTXH was 5% faster and significantly better binned. The reason I say the Gigabyte card is arguably the worst 6900 XT is because it has the weakest input filter and the cooler on it is very similar to the reference card, so it'll run rather hot compared to something like a Red Devil and therefore won't have a ton of OC headroom (6900 XTs do have quite a bit of headroom available to them). It's not faulty or anything like that, it's just very bare bones for a 6900 XT. The 7900 series of cards doesn't have any of those issues, with the only thing that can kinda matter is the power limits (higher power limits are better, though that's not really as big a deal for the 7900 XT as it is for the 7900 XTX) as it's not as easy to bypass the power limits on 7900 XTXs as it was on 6900 XTs. 

 

12 minutes ago, Chriexpe said:

Really? That sounds pretty good! I just think it's curious that it's expensive on Aliexpress compared to USA even tho these things are manufactured there, also I've found this from Newegg, but I don't think if it's worth the extra hassle for shipping (+$30) as there's no return in case of custom duty, but anyway, I've found a promo code that lowered down that Asgard 16GBx2 7200MHz to $193, I guess if in a near future I end up upgrading the CPU hopefully I'll be able to run at those higher frequencies.

I would probably be going for one of the lower bins if it would save you any money. Again, it's very consistent with how fast it can go, so no need to spend a ton of money on a higher binned kit if you're going to be manually setting timings. But yeah, A die is pretty good for tuning, I've gotten it up to 8400 CL34 for benchmarking purposes, and could probably get that fully stable if I had a better motherboard/CPU. 

[Chriexpe]

On 5/3/2023 at 2:29 PM, RONOTHAN## said:

With the 7900 XTs, as long as it's not a reference card it's good. I would be perfectly happy with a Merc if it's at a good price. 

 

There was a bit of variance with the 6900 XTs and 6950 XTs because the reference design had a design flaw with it (very little input filtering), and most AMD AIBs just copy-paste the reference design so all but a handful of cards had very weak input filters. Plus there was the issue where there were two different 6900 XTs, the XTX core and the XTXH where the XTXH was 5% faster and significantly better binned. The reason I say the Gigabyte card is arguably the worst 6900 XT is because it has the weakest input filter and the cooler on it is very similar to the reference card, so it'll run rather hot compared to something like a Red Devil and therefore won't have a ton of OC headroom (6900 XTs do have quite a bit of headroom available to them). It's not faulty or anything like that, it's just very bare bones for a 6900 XT. The 7900 series of cards doesn't have any of those issues, with the only thing that can kinda matter is the power limits (higher power limits are better, though that's not really as big a deal for the 7900 XT as it is for the 7900 XTX) as it's not as easy to bypass the power limits on 7900 XTXs as it was on 6900 XTs. 

 

I would probably be going for one of the lower bins if it would save you any money. Again, it's very consistent with how fast it can go, so no need to spend a ton of money on a higher binned kit if you're going to be manually setting timings. But yeah, A die is pretty good for tuning, I've gotten it up to 8400 CL34 for benchmarking purposes, and could probably get that fully stable if I had a better motherboard/CPU. 

Hey, I forgot to update this but thank you for your help! I decided to yolo and pull the trigger on everything, so CPU, Motherboard, RAM, Case and NVMEs where all bought from Aliexpress and only 7900XTX ($1280) and PSU from here.

The final build is:

R9 7900x

x670 Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX

7900XTX Shapphire Pulse

2x 32GB Geil DDR5 6400MT/s CL32

1TB + 2TB WD SN850x

Thermalright PS120SE

XPG Core Reactor 850w

 

Again I appreciate your help and patience @RONOTHAN##