Solid State Active Cooling at CES 2023 - innovation or a fancy gimmick?

[Roswell]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Are you saying that the laws of thermodynamics does not allow for the claims this company makes to be true?

Nope… I was pointing out the absurdity of suggesting scientific laws are somehow frequently up for debate/change.

 

Scientific laws are the “what” and scientific theories are the “why”.

 

Nobody debates whether or not an object will fall to the ground when you drop it. That objective observable fact (law) is not subject to change. The theory (general relativity) explaining WHY it happens however can be up for debate.

 

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2349359-why-the-laws-of-physics-dont-actually-exist/

https://www.quantamagazine.org/there-are-no-laws-of-physics-theres-only-the-landscape-20180604

Anyway, that's just a tangent to using "laws of physics" as an answer.

 

The laws of physics, apply locally, only to us. Who is to say that physics works the same outside the solar system, or even on the other side of the galaxy. We only believe that the laws of physics work because that's what we can observe and are capable of observing.  

 

Maybe there is a situation where the laws of physics break down, but we do not yet know of one, or even if one is stable enough to test. But there will always been people who object to trying to find out. 

 

Anyway if nobody tries, then we stop discovering new things.

Scientific laws apply to our observable reality. I’m not interested in arguing about what may or may not exist beyond that. You’re just arguing semantics in defense of someone that legitimately said the laws of physics “frequently change”.

 

As with most of the replies you direct at me, this is pretty eye-roll worthy.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Roswell said:

Scientific laws apply to our observable reality. I’m not interested in arguing about what may or may not exist beyond that. You’re just arguing semantics in defense of someone that legitimately said the laws of physics “frequently change”.

Nope, just saying that "laws of physics" is not a defense. And in the context of the product being talked about, you're the one who felt it necessary to argue it.

 

1 hour ago, Roswell said:

As with most of the replies you direct at me, this is pretty eye-roll worthy.

I'm sorry, who are you again?

 

[Spindel]

1 W to achieve 5 W of cooling.

 

Does not seem very efficient even if it’s compact.

[derx]

Yeah, just watched the pcmag video, and 1w to cool 5w doesn't even come close to what an typical current cooling solution for laptops, as these fans typically use 1w, but can dissipate much more heat.
As the tech seems very interesting more development to make it more efficient will be needed to make this a viable cooling solution.

[jagdtigger]

On 1/20/2023 at 2:59 PM, Kisai said:

That's still enough for a mobile phone style CPU, so that might allow something like a flagship phone or tablet run at a higher speed.

TBH thats in itself is a gimmick. Current devices have plenty of grunt, the thing that needs a huge kick in the rear are the SW devs.....

[Roswell]

13 hours ago, Kisai said:

Nope, just saying that "laws of physics" is not a defense. And in the context of the product being talked about, you're the one who felt it necessary to argue it.

 

I'm sorry, who are you again?

 

A defense of what?

 

The laws of physics dictate everything we can do. You can’t skirt around them.

 

Man, the lengths some of you people go to argue about dumb shit is incredible. You’re actually sitting there with a straight face “tHe LaWs oF pHsYsICs aREnT a DeFeNsE”. Lol.

[StDragon]

14 minutes ago, Roswell said:

A defense of what?

 

The laws of physics dictate everything we can do. You can’t skirt around them.

 

Man, the lengths some of you people go to argue about dumb shit is incredible. You’re actually sitting there with a straight face “tHe LaWs oF pHsYsICs aREnT a DeFeNsE”. Lol.

Well, the "Laws" are laws until new observations state otherwise.

 

[Roswell]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Well, the "Laws" are laws until new observations state otherwise.

 

That chart isn’t saying what you think it’s saying.

 

Regardless, observable phenomena tends to be harshly consistent throughout our entire documented history. The properties of our observable physical reality don’t change, our understanding of how/why/etc do.

 

Do you have a SINGLE example of scientific laws magically changing overnight? 
 

If one did, say… gravity suddenly causing mass to accelerate at different values one day, it would be earth shattering news that humanity would obsess over every waking day, granted we somehow managed not to be eradicated as a species because of it. The entire fabric that binds our reality would be in question. It never happens. It sure as hell doesn’t happen “frequently” as the person I quoted suggested.

Could things be different outside the grasp of our observable existence? Sure. Does that somehow lessen the credibility and  reliability of things like the laws of thermodynamics? Absolutely not. 

 

 

 

[StDragon]

17 minutes ago, Roswell said:

Do you have a SINGLE example of scientific laws magically changing overnight?

Easy. Newton's law of universal gravitation was replaced by Einstein's GR.

 

The scope of the current laws as we know them are subject to change contingent upon new observations and experimentation.

[Roswell]

48 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Easy. Newton's law of universal gravitation was replaced by Einstein's GR.

 

The scope of the current laws as we know them are subject to change contingent upon new observations and experimentation.

Thank you for proving my point entirely. Appreciate it!
 

General Relativity is a scientific theory, not a law. If you understood even the basics of what you chose to pointlessly argue about, you’d know that.

 

General Relativity is an attempt to EXPLAIN (the “why”) Newton’s law (the “what”). 
 

Newton’s law is sound, that’s why it’s literally still used and consistent in modern science. They didn’t have the means to observe all of gravity’s effects back then, but that doesn’t mean the measured observations they made magically changed one day. 
 

You clearly don’t comprehend it, but what you’re actually suggesting through this misguided argument is that Newton experienced a different type of gravity than we do today.

 

Spoiler: He didn’t 

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Easy. Newton's law of universal gravitation was replaced by Einstein's GR.

 

The scope of the current laws as we know them are subject to change contingent upon new observations and experimentation.

That is not what happened. Newtons law isn't "replaced"
Newtons law still 100% applies to everything as we know it. It 100% accounts for gravitational forces.

GR builds on it and adds more variables, but it does not negate a single part of the law

 

[StDragon]

50 minutes ago, starsmine said:

That is not what happened. Newtons law isn't "replaced"
Newtons law still 100% applies to everything as we know it. It 100% accounts for gravitational forces.

GR builds on it and adds more variables, but it does not negate a single part of the law

 

The scope of "Laws" can be nebulous. Not the equations that define them, but their scope. GR builds upon newtons laws because it breaks down over great distances.

 

It's still not fully understood why the fabric of spacetime keeps expanding overriding the gravitational pull between galaxies. Hell, not even quantum physics and GR can be unified.

 

So until we can send probes thousands and galaxies away, we don't factually know if the laws apply everywhere in the universe, or is more dynamic and varying depending on locality.

 

So again, you can cites the laws of physics, but it's arrogant to think such modeling can't and won't change.

Noodle on this - Is the known universe just an expression of math in natural form? Or is math a human construct of the known universe as it exists? It's very much debatable depending on whom you ask.

[Spindel]

Oh and it seems like this is in the 20-100 kHz range, if you have pets they are going to love this.

[Roswell]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

The scope of "Laws" can be nebulous. Not the equations that define them, but their scope. GR builds upon newtons laws because it breaks down over great distances.

Theories and laws don’t work that way. Laws either exist or they don’t. Laws are the objectively observable state of existence. Theories attempt to explain the why and how and provide a pathway for new, additive observation.

 

Your argument boils down to the equivalent of “two plus two equals four, until it doesn’t”.

 

I strongly suggest looking up the scientific definitions of hypotheses, theories, and laws. 

[ouroesa]

On 1/21/2023 at 10:19 PM, vishvajit said:

used similar product was quite expensive but used to work but it was designed for phone and i used a lot while phone used to heat while gaming it had mentioned patents pending all over it was working quite great dont know the working principle but it was not just a fancy gimmick.

What? 

[Isuck Assimov]

Is it even a sold state device if the air current is produced by a moving (vibrating) component ?

Edit: TIL thats not what solid state means

2nd Edit: OK, so apparently when talking about fans its solid state when there's no moving parts and when talking about electronics it's solid state when the circuit uses semiconductors instead of vaccuum tubes ? wild man.

So is it solid state or not ? seems more like a buzzword than a reliable characteristic at this point

[starsmine]

1 hour ago, Assimov said:

Is it even a sold state device if the air current is produced by a moving (vibrating) component ?

Edit: TIL thats not what solid state means

2nd Edit: OK, so apparently when talking about fans its solid state when there's no moving parts and when talking about electronics it's solid state when the circuit uses semiconductors instead of vaccuum tubes ? wild man.

So is it solid state or not ? seems more like a buzzword than a reliable characteristic at this point

My guess is that its using MEMs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_systems
Which are solid state circuits using semiconductors rather then "moving parts"

[rippopotamus]

old topic. yup

just created an account yup.

seen this gadget years ago, and have been monitoring.

Now that you pinged this months ago (noice!) I have been trying to get into contact with Frore, but they seem swamped and/or very busy.

 

My interest is professional (part of a top10 cm company; that feels like a startup most of the time).

In my line of work we could maybe use such a thing.

At the least we pitched the idea to create a feasibility demonstrator for some high end compact devices, for that to be of some success ofcourse the sourcing seems to be illusive yet.

 

Question to the Team:

Do you have some hints/advise how to get into contact with Frore, and maybe obtain + pay for 1 or 2 samples?

Me and my tech discovery team (small club of tinkerboyz) are trying to get hold of them mail/phone/site/etc etc but have had no luck.

 

PS offtopic: Linus, please dont get botched up about too much negatives. You and your team easily outperform the competition. Always have been a fan. You do have fans everywhere, keep up the tinkering with tech! Nothing needs to be perfect, as long as there are plenty of info bits (controversial or not) that can be debated about. I think you are creating valuable content. Cudos to the Team  Bruh, c'mon even the people criticizing you are secretly a Fan. Which is a pun to our discovery team pitch name "FanLess" for products that rather do not want fans!

 

[RejZoR]

On 1/22/2023 at 1:29 PM, derx said:

Yeah, just watched the pcmag video, and 1w to cool 5w doesn't even come close to what an typical current cooling solution for laptops, as these fans typically use 1w, but can dissipate much more heat.
As the tech seems very interesting more development to make it more efficient will be needed to make this a viable cooling solution.

Fans do not dissipate any heat unless there is a huge heatsink next to it. These things are both a fan and a heatsink. Considering SSAC itself is just the size of a heatsink without fan, that makes it interesting.