gpu Problem with my RTX 3070 *help

[miggyboiii]

Short version: I replaced my RTX 3060 with an RTX 3070 but the performance got worse. 

 

Hey guys, I'm posting this because I'm getting exhausted reading all that I can to understand the problem that I have. to explain more what happened, here it is:

Before that, my PC's specs are below:

Aorus b450 pro wifi itx

Ryzen 3500x

v650 sfx gold cooler master

2tb nvme ssd

16gb 3200 ram

GPU: 3060 and 3070

3440x1400 monitor (144hz)

 

I bought a used RTX 3070 to replace my 3060 that I bought new. I know it's only a step up but I found it at a good price. The thing is, both the 3060 and 3070 do well on benchmarks and stress tests and etc. But when I tried testing it on Cyberpunk the story is different. my 3060 in ultra ray tracing is steady at 30-31 fps and drops to 28-29 fps when roaming but the gameplay is way smoother.

 

for the RTX 3070 I get roughly the same FPS on ultra ray tracing but at times, the FPS drops to 5-10 FPS which is very annoying. Even in the settings, when I click the "quick preset" swticher fast enough, it drops from 250+ FPS to 10-15 FPS which makes the settings laggy/stuttery as hell that doesnt happen to the 3060.

 

I consulted the shop I bought the 3070 from and their response is: my CPU (3500x) is a bottleneck.(the PSU could be as well but we'll and I agree that it can use an upgrade)

 

The problem is: I've tried benchmarking in Cyberpunk and the CPU doesn't go anywhere near 80% utilization, highest I've seen is at 68%. The GPU however is always at 85-98% utilization. And if the CPU is the bottleneck, should it be the other way around and the CPU should be nearing 100% more than the GPU? this is with barely any apps open (just msi afterburner, steam, and etc)

(right now as I'm typing this, only google chrome is up, no videos, and my GPU utilization is jumping between 5% to 70% and I'm getting paranoid because of the bottlenecking issue and not sure if the GPU has an issue)

 

I'm thinking of getting a 750w PSU and a 5700x to test the theory but I want to get your thoughts here before I go out and buy a new PSU and CPU just to test a theory. 

 

My question is:

• could there be a problem with the GPU based on what I described alone?
• or is it definitely a CPU bottleneck? 
• Is it normal to get framedrops down to 5-10fps in game and in the settings just because of a bottleneck?

Here's a drive link of a couple of videos I took:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-5hBkeiYXiwJHhRQE56ztfS4lMMMEvk4?usp=sharing

[bezza...]

what is your power supply and what are your gpu and cpu temps. you do have a cpu bottlneck but this should not make you get worse performance. you can get a bottlneck with the cpu with oiut the cpu being utilised fully. becuase games dont always use all of the cpus threads.

[Blue4130]

14 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

Short version: I replaced my RTX 3060 with an RTX 3070 but the performance got worse. 

 

Hey guys, I'm posting this because I'm getting exhausted reading all that I can to understand the problem that I have. to explain more what happened, here it is:

Before that, my PC's specs are below:

Aorus b450 pro wifi itx

Ryzen 3500x

v650 sfx gold cooler master

2tb nvme ssd

16gb 3200 ram

GPU: 3060 and 3070

3440x1400 monitor (144hz)

 

I bought a used RTX 3070 to replace my 3060 that I bought new. I know it's only a step up but I found it at a good price. The thing is, both the 3060 and 3070 do well on benchmarks and stress tests and etc. But when I tried testing it on Cyberpunk the story is different. my 3060 in ultra ray tracing is steady at 30-31 fps and drops to 28-29 fps when roaming but the gameplay is way smoother.

 

for the RTX 3070 I get roughly the same FPS on ultra ray tracing but at times, the FPS drops to 5-10 FPS which is very annoying. Even in the settings, when I click the "quick preset" swticher fast enough, it drops from 250+ FPS to 10-15 FPS which makes the settings laggy/stuttery as hell that doesnt happen to the 3060.

 

I consulted the shop I bought the 3070 from and their response is: my CPU (3500x) is a bottleneck.(the PSU could be as well but we'll and I agree that it can use an upgrade)

 

The problem is: I've tried benchmarking in Cyberpunk and the CPU doesn't go anywhere near 80% utilization, highest I've seen is at 68%. The GPU however is always at 85-98% utilization. And if the CPU is the bottleneck, should it be the other way around and the CPU should be nearing 100% more than the GPU? this is with barely any apps open (just msi afterburner, steam, and etc)

(right now as I'm typing this, only google chrome is up, no videos, and my GPU utilization is jumping between 5% to 70% and I'm getting paranoid because of the bottlenecking issue and not sure if the GPU has an issue)

 

I'm thinking of getting a 750w PSU and a 5700x to test the theory but I want to get your thoughts here before I go out and buy a new PSU and CPU just to test a theory. 

 

My question is:

• could there be a problem with the GPU based on what I described alone?
• or is it definitely a CPU bottleneck? 
• Is it normal to get framedrops down to 5-10fps in game and in the settings just because of a bottleneck?

Here's a drive link of a couple of videos I took:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-5hBkeiYXiwJHhRQE56ztfS4lMMMEvk4?usp=sharing

Did you DDU the drivers when switching? Sure they are both 30x0 cards, but I'd give it a good wipe.

[miggyboiii]

14 minutes ago, Tomberry said:

what is your power supply and what are your gpu and cpu temps. you do have a cpu bottlneck but this should not make you get worse performance. you can get a bottlneck with the cpu with oiut the cpu being utilised fully. becuase games dont always use all of the cpus threads.

Here are temps:

CPU (tctl/Tdie) averaging at 54 degrees

CPU die: 54 degrees

 

GPU average 69 degrees

GPU hot spot 81 degrees

 

the psu is an SFX 650w 80+ gold from cooler master that I plan to upgrade to a 750w one

 

and to be clear what I meant by worse performance is the frame drops. I rarely get them on the 3060, almost never actually. on this 3070, I get them more often, and like on the post, I sometimes get frame drops down from 40 fps to 5-15 fps. In terms of difference, there is an increase on the fps on the 3070 but just barely 5-8 fps which is most likely because of the bottleneck

Edited January 6, 2023 by miggyboiii
more info

[miggyboiii]

1 minute ago, Blue4130 said:

Did you DDU the drivers when switching? Sure they are both 30x0 cards, but I'd give it a good wipe.

Yes, I used DDU each time I swapped the cards

[miggyboiii]

21 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Did you DDU the drivers when switching? Sure they are both 30x0 cards, but I'd give it a good wipe.

I actually thought there might be a driver error that's why I tested both cards twice and used ddu each time too. 

[xAcid9]

3 hours ago, miggyboiii said:

I actually thought there might be a driver error that's why I tested both cards twice and used ddu each time too. 

Try check VRAM and RAM usage. If your RAM usage is much higher on 3070, that probably mean the game swapping the assets directly to your much slower system RAM because that's the genius of Ngreedia to put 8GB on 3070 and 12GB on 3060. 

 

4 hours ago, miggyboiii said:

The problem is: I've tried benchmarking in Cyberpunk and the CPU doesn't go anywhere near 80% utilization, highest I've seen is at 68%. The GPU however is always at 85-98% utilization. And if the CPU is the bottleneck, should it be the other way around and the CPU should be nearing 100% more than the GPU? this is with barely any apps open (just msi afterburner, steam, and etc)

You need to check each CPU core. You're CPU bottleneck if you see at least  one core is constantly on 95%+ utilization

[miggyboiii]

10 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Try check VRAM and RAM usage. If you RAM usage is much higher on 3070, that probably mean the game swapping the assets directly to your much slower system RAM because the genius of Ngreedia to put 8GB on 3070 and 12GB on 3060. 

 

You need to check each CPU core. You're CPU bottleneck if you see at least  one core is constantly on 95%+ utilization

thank you lots for the input. I'll test the vram and ram usage on the 3070 then. to be honest, the troubleshooting ate up my time as it is so I'll test on the 3070 for now. I'll also check the each core's temp like you said.

 

that said, I've watched a lot of videos that use a 650w PSU and a 3070 and a ryzen 3600. That means the 650w PSU should be fine if I upgrade my CPU right? or am I missing something here. I've read a lot of people say 650w should be fine based on a lot of stress tests, unless you torture the card that is.

[xAcid9]

7 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

that said, I've watched a lot of videos that use a 650w PSU and a 3070 and a ryzen 3600. That means the 650w PSU should be fine if I upgrade my CPU right? or am I missing something here. I've read a lot of people say 650w should be fine based on a lot of stress tests, unless you torture the card that is.

It should be fine, I think you have a lot of room to spare. Try get 5600 or even 5800x3d for ultimate gaming performance on AM4. 

[miggyboiii]

Yeah I’d love to 

22 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

It should be fine, I think you have a lot of room to spare. Try get 5600 or even 5800x3d for ultimate gaming performance on AM4. 

Yeah I’d love to get my hands on a 5800x3d but I assume that would need a 750w psu along with the 3070 right? Would love to see the options based on price and my location
 

anyways here’s what I found. Based on hwinfo looks like ram usage (physical memory load) is at 63% (4gb used by cyberpunk based on task mgr) and from hwinfo gpu memory usage is at 92%

 

core temps also seem okay to me, highest of the 6 cores is at 57 degrees

 

P.s. did not realize the photos will upload like this if I do it through my phone browser lol sorry about that

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by miggyboiii
side comment

[Mark Kaine]

pretty much guaranteed its because the 3060 has more VRAM... 12 vs 8 GB in some games that can make a huge difference. 

 

1 hour ago, miggyboiii said:

core temps also seem okay to me, highest of the 6 cores is at 57 degrees

to check cpu usage you need this (i mean it cant hurt to check for a cpu bottleneck, but your main issue is most likely as said the Vram... its also not gonna use 100% thats not how vram works there's usually a reserved amount too, the truth is 8GB was very little 10 years ago, and today its still very little and requirements didn't like go down either) 

 

[miggyboiii]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

pretty much guaranteed its because the 3060 has more VRAM... 12 vs 8 GB in some games that can make a huge difference. 

yeah, but does swapping out my cpu for a 5700x make a difference? kind of stuck at this point

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

yeah, but does swapping out my cpu for a 5700x make a difference? kind of stuck at this point

that's unlikely... but see my edit above you should actually check cpu/core usage after playing the game for a while, specifically after you experienced the drops. generally the cpu shouldn't really bottleneck this gpu, but with some games its possible... hence check that first.

[Mark Kaine]

4 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

kind of stuck at this point

eh, i mean if its Vram there's probably an easy fix,  pretty sure the game tells you vram usage,  you just have to stay like under ~7GB... as said if you're close to 8GB or above thats where games start hitching. 

 

basically i don't wanna victim blame, but you should have known cyberpunk is vram intensive, so "upgrading" to a card with less vram wasn't the best idea (if thats even what's going on but by all accounts that seems very likely to me)

[Ripred]

11 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

yeah, but does swapping out my cpu for a 5700x make a difference? kind of stuck at this point

It could (did for me) but I've never tried cyber punk, in settings is there something like a texture pool size adjustment? or some kind of reference for how much vram settings take up?

[miggyboiii]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

eh, i mean if its Vram there's probably an easy fix,  pretty sure the game tells you vram usage,  you just have to stay like under ~7GB... as said if you're close to 8GB or above thats where games start hitching. 

 

basically i don't wanna victim blame, but you should have known cyberpunk is vram intensive, so "upgrading" to a card with less vram wasn't the best idea (if thats even what's going on but by all accounts that seems very likely to me)

yeah that makes a lot of sense, and now that you're the second one to mention it, I now see a lot of people with 3070s and 80s experiencing the same thing. Nvidia pretty much screwed people over. Never really had Vram issues before that's why I haven't dug more into it (probably because the 3060 has 4gb more than the 3070)

 

Now, if you were in my position, would you keep the 3070 or 3060? I still have both and the only reason I'm selling the 3060 is because I bought a waterblock for it and I dont have the time to do a custom loop anymore (and yeah I know it's not enough heat to justify the cost but I just wanted it to look good lol)

[miggyboiii]

1 minute ago, lotus10101 said:

It could (did for me) but I've never tried cyber punk, in settings is there something like a texture pool size adjustment? or some kind of reference for how much vram settings take up?

Doesn't look like there's a specific setting for that, only that the more demanding areas (graphically) take more from the vram too, I'm guessing it's a matter of playing with your settings till you get to a point that they don't eat up the whole vram

[Ripred]

1 minute ago, miggyboiii said:

yeah that makes a lot of sense, and now that you're the second one to mention it, I now see a lot of people with 3070s and 80s experiencing the same thing. Nvidia pretty much screwed people over. Never really had Vram issues before that's why I haven't dug more into it (probably because the 3060 has 4gb more than the 3070)

 

Now, if you were in my position, would you keep the 3070 or 3060? I still have both and the only reason I'm selling the 3060 is because I bought a waterblock for it and I dont have the time to do a custom loop anymore (and yeah I know it's not enough heat to justify the cost but I just wanted it to look good lol)

If the performance issue can be adjusted in games so its a non issue anymore id keep the 3070, if you cannot fix the issue and get the better frames the 3070 promises then no keep the 3060, buy a 5800x3d and enjoy the extra frames the 3070 was supposed to get you anyway lol

[xAcid9]

1 hour ago, miggyboiii said:

Yeah I’d love to get my hands on a 5800x3d but I assume that would need a 750w psu along with the 3070 right? Would love to see the options based on price and my location

What model is your 3070? 

 

2 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

Doesn't look like there's a specific setting for that, only that the more demanding areas (graphically) take more from the vram too, I'm guessing it's a matter of playing with your settings till you get to a point that they don't eat up the whole vram

Set your in-game Texture quality to medium or low and check if the hitching is gone. 

 

I suggest install MSI Afterburner and use the OSD to monitor your system, or use Nvidia OSD. 

 

[Mark Kaine]

7 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

Doesn't look like there's a specific setting for that, only that the more demanding areas (graphically) take more from the vram too, I'm guessing it's a matter of playing with your settings till you get to a point that they don't eat up the whole vram

well i don't have cp, but pretty much every half modern game tells u vram usage... if it really doesn't you'd just have to set textures,  and probably lighting etc to medium or even low until the hitching stops.

 

9 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

Now, if you were in my position, would you keep the 3070 or 3060? I still have both and the only reason I'm selling the 3060 is because I bought a waterblock for it and I dont have the time to do a custom loop anymore (and yeah I know it's not enough heat to justify the cost but I just wanted it to look good lol)

difficult,  but if its really Vram I'd might keep the 3060.... i mean i have a 3070, and am pretty pleased,  but i *knew* about the low vram and i didn't really run in a lot of issues except in some games i cant max out the vram, but i mean it still looks good... its not like it has no vram at all lol.

 

so in your situation I'd probably keep the 3060... but really check your cpu/core usage first.

 

Again:

 

(in hwinfo64) 

[miggyboiii]

1 minute ago, xAcid9 said:

What model is your 3070? 

 

Set your in-game Texture quality to medium or low and check if the hitching is gone. 

 

I suggest install MSI Afterburner and use the OSD to monitor your system, or use Nvidia OSD. 

 

Yeah, I set my settings to medium preset, dlss auto, and ray tracing on (all other RT options off) and I'm getting a solid 65 fps. 

 

Didn't know msi afterburner had an OSD, was using Nvidia's but a bit buggy. 

 

Would love to get your opinion too, it does look like it's a vram thing since I see a lot of 3070 users experience the same thing and see the same problem. Would you rather have a 3060 or 3070?

 

and do you think a 5700x will ease the burden a bit? or even boost the fps?

[miggyboiii]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

well i don't have cp, but pretty much every half modern game tells u vram usage... if it really doesn't you'd just have to set textures,  and probably lighting etc to medium or even low until the hitching stops.

 

difficult,  but if its really Vram I'd might keep the 3060.... i mean i have a 3070, and am pretty pleased,  but i *knew* about the low vram and i didn't really run in a lot of issues except in some games i cant max out the vram, but i mean it still looks good... its not like it has no vram at all lol.

 

so in your situation I'd probably keep the 3060... but really check your cpu/core usage first.

 

Again:

 

(in hwinfo64) 

Thanks for the input, but to be honest, I'd rather keep the 3070 too. I'm not too heavy on most games, I like pretty chill games most of the time anyway. 

Also, was just alarmed since I was second guessing if this 3070 was broken or something like that, but if this looks like a normal 3070 to you then I'm happy to just keep it

[xAcid9]

5 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

Yeah, I set my settings to medium preset, dlss auto, and ray tracing on (all other RT options off) and I'm getting a solid 65 fps. 

To maintain consistency, just use the setting you used previously and lower the texture to low or medium, that'll reduce the VRAM load and if it still hitching/drop frame.. maaaaaaayybe VRAM capacity is not the problem.

 

Btw, DLSS and RT add some load into the VRAM as well.

 

5 minutes ago, miggyboiii said:

Didn't know msi afterburner had an OSD, was using Nvidia's but a bit buggy. 

MSI AB OSD is very customizable, might overwhelm some people. 

[miggyboiii]

5 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

To maintain consistency, just use the setting you used previously and lower the texture to low or medium, that'll reduce the VRAM load and if it still hitching/drop frame.. maaaaaaayybe VRAM capacity is not the problem.

 

Btw, DLSS and RT add some load into the VRAM as well.

 

MSI AB OSD is very customizable, might overwhelm some people. 

Sure thing, I'm testing it for a few minutes now and no hitching so far, it it does, I'll turn off dlss and RT and try again

also trying to play with the msi afterburner osd right now, thanks for the tip!

[miggyboiii]

21 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

To maintain consistency, just use the setting you used previously and lower the texture to low or medium, that'll reduce the VRAM load and if it still hitching/drop frame.. maaaaaaayybe VRAM capacity is not the problem.

 

Btw, DLSS and RT add some load into the VRAM as well.

 

MSI AB OSD is very customizable, might overwhelm some people. 

you know what, I'm really confused now, before when I turn on RT, I get 30+ fps, now I get 60+ fps (with less hitching). that's with enemies and shooting and cars and stuff. so I notice 2 things, turning on DLSS and RT gets my vram to about 7200mb it hitches, and stables back to 60fps. what's weird is I don't get a consistent number to base it from since earlier, turning on RT gave me bad fps and now it's good again

 

edit: and to your question before: my gpu is a gigabyte rtx 3070 gaming OC