i5-13600K hitting 100C & Thermal Throttling in Cinebench

[Bobzor]

6 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

Some more digging.

It looks like MSi motherboards sets the PL1 and PL2 power settings, and stock voltage too high by default.

 

But it could be a combination of power / voltages, and not-so-great contact.

You'll have to try things out.

 

Also, quote people, otherwise they don't get notified when you reply.

 

 

 

 

Is there a Motherboard that you would recommend that would be better for an i5-13600k? I can still return the mobo, and it was a pain to update the BIOS via a Button as the CPU wasn't even supported to start with.

[Bobzor]

1 hour ago, -rascal- said:

 

Some more digging.

It looks like MSi motherboards sets the PL1 and PL2 power settings, and stock voltage too high by default.

 

But it could be a combination of power / voltages, and not-so-great contact.

You'll have to try things out.

 

Also, quote people, otherwise they don't get notified when you reply.

 

 

 

 

I played with the BIOS Setting and in Cinebench it seems to hit an average temp of 81C, but says it's now both Power Limit Throttling, Current/EDP Limit Throttling. Only gets a Max Core Frequency of around 4.60 GHz. Core Voltage is on average 1.135 Volts. A score of 21842 on Cinebench Multi Core running for around 10 Minutes. Anything you would recommend me try to play around with further? I'm new to altering pretty much anything in the BIOS lol.

[-rascal-]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:32 PM, Bobzor said:

Is there a Motherboard that you would recommend that would be better for an i5-13600k? I can still return the mobo, and it was a pain to update the BIOS via a Button as the CPU wasn't even supported to start with.

 

Flashing the BIOS should be pretty straight-forward.

You NEED to follow the step-by-step instructions word-for-word.

 

A lot of people get confused at the part when you need to extract/unzip the BIOS download.

Then TAKE the BIOS file out of the folders, and put that directly onto a blank USB drive, formatted to FAT32.

You may need to rename the BIOS file.

Your motherboard has the option to flash the BIOS through the UEFI (i.e. old traditional way), and the option to do it headless (i.e. button on the back of the board).

 

Z690 was released with the Intel 12th Gen, so not surprising the motherboard does not support 13th Gen right out of the box -- especially if the motherboard is older stock.

Usually, the motherboard will some with BIOS that supports the new CPUs right from the factory, but you may need to wait 1 ~ 2 months AFTER the new chips release.

 

The other option was to jump directly on a Z790 motherboard; that SHOULD support Intel 13th Gen out-of-the-box.

That said, you did eventually get the BIOS flashed, so it doesn't make too much difference if you stick with your current Z690 motherboard, or get a Z790 motherboard now.

 

 

On 11/2/2022 at 7:44 PM, Bobzor said:

I played with the BIOS Setting and in Cinebench it seems to hit an average temp of 81C, but says it's now both Power Limit Throttling, Current/EDP Limit Throttling. Only gets a Max Core Frequency of around 4.60 GHz. Core Voltage is on average 1.135 Volts. A score of 21842 on Cinebench Multi Core running for around 10 Minutes. Anything you would recommend me try to play around with further? I'm new to altering pretty much anything in the BIOS lol.

 

What are your current BIOS settings?

Can you take screenshots of your UEFI settings?

You should be able to plug a USB stick in, and use F12 or Print Screen (or whatever MSi uses) to take screen captures within the UEFI, and save them into the USB as .jpg

 

You will most likely NEED to get comfortable with playing around with the UEFI BIOS settings, at least for the next little while.

These days, with brand-new technology, you will need to pay....what we call... the "Early Adopter Tax."

You will have to deal with some instabilities, tweaking BIOS settings to get things to work nicely, AND checking/updating the BIOS on a frequent basis.

 

I won't be surprised if all the board manufacturers, not just MSi, will be release new BIOS updates every 1 ~ 2 months.

These new BIOS will add better memory support, improve system stability, fix any weird BIOS setting bugs, etc.

Just like what they did with the release of Intel 12th series.

 

Actually, we can already see that, even with your MSi Pro Z690-A motherboard.

Since the very first BIOS released to support Intel 13th Gen (version 7D25vA7), there is a new BIOS update every ~2 months.

 

[Ebony Falcon]

I just ordered a 13600k and Msi tomahawk it’s here tomorrow and I have a 240aio so now I’m dreading it not being good enough to cool it, I would start by limiting power to 160w and then undervolting the cpu 

 

what voltage is it pulling at stock ? 
 

[Bobzor]

9 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

I just ordered a 13600k and Msi tomahawk it’s here tomorrow and I have a 240aio so now I’m dreading it not being good enough to cool it, I would start by limiting power to 160w and then undervolting the cpu 

 

what voltage is it pulling at stock ? 
 

Wouldn't exactly call it "stock" from the settings it started with lol. I didn't take a screenshot before I started messing with BIOS settings but during Benchmarking it was usually hitting 1.385V. MSI made it so the default CPU Cooler Tuning was "Water Cooler" which in parentheses was over 4000W lol. I think PL1 & PL2 were in the 300W range.

 

14 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

Flashing the BIOS should be pretty straight-forward.

You NEED to follow the step-by-step instructions word-for-word.

 

A lot of people get confused at the part when you need to extract/unzip the BIOS download.

Then TAKE the BIOS file out of the folders, and put that directly onto a blank USB drive, formatted to FAT32.

You may need to rename the BIOS file.

Your motherboard has the option to flash the BIOS through the UEFI (i.e. old traditional way), and the option to do it headless (i.e. button on the back of the board).

 

Z690 was released with the Intel 12th Gen, so not surprising the motherboard does not support 13th Gen right out of the box -- especially if the motherboard is older stock.

Usually, the motherboard will some with BIOS that supports the new CPUs right from the factory, but you may need to wait 1 ~ 2 months AFTER the new chips release.

 

The other option was to jump directly on a Z790 motherboard; that SHOULD support Intel 13th Gen out-of-the-box.

That said, you did eventually get the BIOS flashed, so it doesn't make too much difference if you stick with your current Z690 motherboard, or get a Z790 motherboard now.

 

 

 

What are your current BIOS settings?

Can you take screenshots of your UEFI settings?

You should be able to plug a USB stick in, and use F12 or Print Screen (or whatever MSi uses) to take screen captures within the UEFI, and save them into the USB as .jpg

 

You will most likely NEED to get comfortable with playing around with the UEFI BIOS settings, at least for the next little while.

These days, with brand-new technology, you will need to pay....what we call... the "Early Adopter Tax."

You will have to deal with some instabilities, tweaking BIOS settings to get things to work nicely, AND checking/updating the BIOS on a frequent basis.

 

I won't be surprised if all the board manufacturers, not just MSi, will be release new BIOS updates every 1 ~ 2 months.

These new BIOS will add better memory support, improve system stability, fix any weird BIOS setting bugs, etc.

Just like what they did with the release of Intel 12th series.

 

Actually, we can already see that, even with your MSi Pro Z690-A motherboard.

Since the very first BIOS released to support Intel 13th Gen (version 7D25vA7), there is a new BIOS update every ~2 months.

 

I've been using MSI's CPU Lite Load as makes it a lot easier for the Voltage settings for a newbie like me. I got it down to Level 2 & did Benchmark testing with Cinebench to make sure it was stable. I'm currently getting around 1.23V not Benchmarking & during it the average is 1.106V. Temperature is around 77C-to-79C.

 

The only issue I have is I believe CPU Lite Load also lowers the Wattage the CPU uses, when I'm using Cinbench it seems the Max Package TDP being used is around 120W. I'm guessing this is close enough to PL1 of 125W, but it doesn't seem to ever go anywhere near PL2 territory of 181W during Benchmarking. Also Current/EDP Limit Throttling is constantly active. Any tips?

[Ebony Falcon]

1 hour ago, Bobzor said:

Wouldn't exactly call it "stock" from the settings it started with lol. I didn't take a screenshot before I started messing with BIOS settings but during Benchmarking it was usually hitting 1.385V. MSI made it so the default CPU Cooler Tuning was "Water Cooler" which in parentheses was over 4000W lol. I think PL1 & PL2 were in the 300W range.

 

I've been using MSI's CPU Lite Load as makes it a lot easier for the Voltage settings for a newbie like me. I got it down to Level 2 & did Benchmark testing with Cinebench to make sure it was stable. I'm currently getting around 1.23V not Benchmarking & during it the average is 1.106V. Temperature is around 77C-to-79C.

 

The only issue I have is I believe CPU Lite Load also lowers the Wattage the CPU uses, when I'm using Cinbench it seems the Max Package TDP being used is around 120W. I'm guessing this is close enough to PL1 of 125W, but it doesn't seem to ever go anywhere near PL2 territory of 181W during Benchmarking. Also Current/EDP Limit Throttling is constantly active. Any tips?

What does lite mode do ? 

[solado]

Just want to throw this out there and I doubt this is the problem... but you did remove the plastic from under the heat sink cooler right ?

[Bobzor]

12 minutes ago, solado said:

Just want to throw this out there and I doubt this is the problem... but you did remove the plastic from under the heat sink cooler right ?

I checked for it, yeah. I wish it was that simple rather than all the tweaking I had to do lol.

 

1 hour ago, Ebony Falcon said:

What does lite mode do ? 

"CPU Lite Load (BIOS\Overclocking\CPU Feature\CPU Lite Load)
“CPU Lite Load” can adjust CPU vcore/power consumption slightly according to CPU quality. Due to lack of CPU samples, MSI fine tune the optimal default settings but it may not apply to all the CPU. Some users might experience BSOD at default settings and usually that is because of the margin CPU quality. Among all the CPU samples that are owned by MSI, there was one time that MSI has to adjust CPU Lite Load to maximum mode (Mode 20) to successfully bench a CPU.

Does CPU Lite Load work?
Based on previous experiment, default power consumption and vcore when Intel turbo boost is enabled is 211.4W and 1.219V. However, if we change CPU Lite Load Mode to 4, with same configuration, it will change to 147W/1.1V, but since the vcore and power supply is too low, the system eventually BSOD."

 

17 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

Flashing the BIOS should be pretty straight-forward.

You NEED to follow the step-by-step instructions word-for-word.

 

A lot of people get confused at the part when you need to extract/unzip the BIOS download.

Then TAKE the BIOS file out of the folders, and put that directly onto a blank USB drive, formatted to FAT32.

You may need to rename the BIOS file.

Your motherboard has the option to flash the BIOS through the UEFI (i.e. old traditional way), and the option to do it headless (i.e. button on the back of the board).

 

Z690 was released with the Intel 12th Gen, so not surprising the motherboard does not support 13th Gen right out of the box -- especially if the motherboard is older stock.

Usually, the motherboard will some with BIOS that supports the new CPUs right from the factory, but you may need to wait 1 ~ 2 months AFTER the new chips release.

 

The other option was to jump directly on a Z790 motherboard; that SHOULD support Intel 13th Gen out-of-the-box.

That said, you did eventually get the BIOS flashed, so it doesn't make too much difference if you stick with your current Z690 motherboard, or get a Z790 motherboard now.

 

 

 

What are your current BIOS settings?

Can you take screenshots of your UEFI settings?

You should be able to plug a USB stick in, and use F12 or Print Screen (or whatever MSi uses) to take screen captures within the UEFI, and save them into the USB as .jpg

 

You will most likely NEED to get comfortable with playing around with the UEFI BIOS settings, at least for the next little while.

These days, with brand-new technology, you will need to pay....what we call... the "Early Adopter Tax."

You will have to deal with some instabilities, tweaking BIOS settings to get things to work nicely, AND checking/updating the BIOS on a frequent basis.

 

I won't be surprised if all the board manufacturers, not just MSi, will be release new BIOS updates every 1 ~ 2 months.

These new BIOS will add better memory support, improve system stability, fix any weird BIOS setting bugs, etc.

Just like what they did with the release of Intel 12th series.

 

Actually, we can already see that, even with your MSi Pro Z690-A motherboard.

Since the very first BIOS released to support Intel 13th Gen (version 7D25vA7), there is a new BIOS update every ~2 months.

 

Whenever you get the chance Rascal, I just want to see if you have any tips for the following. The only issue I have is I know CPU Lite Load also lowers the Wattage the CPU uses, when I'm using Cinbench it seems the Max Package TDP being used is around 120W. I'm guessing this is close enough to PL1 of 125W, but it doesn't seem to ever go anywhere near PL2 territory of 181W during Benchmarking. Also Current/EDP Limit Throttling is constantly active. Any tips?

[Ebony Falcon]

8 hours ago, Bobzor said:

I checked for it, yeah. I wish it was that simple rather than all the tweaking I had to do lol.

 

"CPU Lite Load (BIOS\Overclocking\CPU Feature\CPU Lite Load)
“CPU Lite Load” can adjust CPU vcore/power consumption slightly according to CPU quality. Due to lack of CPU samples, MSI fine tune the optimal default settings but it may not apply to all the CPU. Some users might experience BSOD at default settings and usually that is because of the margin CPU quality. Among all the CPU samples that are owned by MSI, there was one time that MSI has to adjust CPU Lite Load to maximum mode (Mode 20) to successfully bench a CPU.

Does CPU Lite Load work?
Based on previous experiment, default power consumption and vcore when Intel turbo boost is enabled is 211.4W and 1.219V. However, if we change CPU Lite Load Mode to 4, with same configuration, it will change to 147W/1.1V, but since the vcore and power supply is too low, the system eventually BSOD."

 

Whenever you get the chance Rascal, I just want to see if you have any tips for the following. The only issue I have is I know CPU Lite Load also lowers the Wattage the CPU uses, when I'm using Cinbench it seems the Max Package TDP being used is around 120W. I'm guessing this is close enough to PL1 of 125W, but it doesn't seem to ever go anywhere near PL2 territory of 181W during Benchmarking. Also Current/EDP Limit Throttling is constantly active. Any tips?

Yo that’s no joke bro 

[Ebony Falcon]

And as above I can confirm this worked holy fucking shit 

went to lite load mode 5 and run r23 all core were pegged at 5.1 p cores and 3.8 e and got same r23 score and max temp was 80c

v core dropped from 1.33v to 1.15v and dropped 20c off temps amazing 

score at end after 10 min loop was 23600

 

cpu now only pulling 160w instead of 220

 

[bramturismo]

Bloody hell... 13th gen is a frickin' toaster...

 

Hope you get your issue sorted man. Nothing sucks more than getting in fresh parts, only for not getting them to work...

[Grumpycats]

In the same boat, I built 2 identical systems 13600K / MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 (2x8 16GB GSkill Ripjaws 3600 CL16) / Deepcool AK620 / Thermalright CPU frame, Bios at defaults with Tower Cooler selected (288W / 512A) / Win 11 Pro

 

With gaming CPU temp hovers around 65-75C & 81-82C peak (HWMmonitor) which seems fine but a few seconds into Cinebench R23 and both systems will hit 100C, Temp drops immediately to upper 30s / low 40s when stopping the test so maybe it's a voltage issue after all? 

[-rascal-]

On 11/5/2022 at 3:31 AM, Bobzor said:

I checked for it, yeah. I wish it was that simple rather than all the tweaking I had to do lol.

 

"CPU Lite Load (BIOS\Overclocking\CPU Feature\CPU Lite Load)
“CPU Lite Load” can adjust CPU vcore/power consumption slightly according to CPU quality. Due to lack of CPU samples, MSI fine tune the optimal default settings but it may not apply to all the CPU. Some users might experience BSOD at default settings and usually that is because of the margin CPU quality. Among all the CPU samples that are owned by MSI, there was one time that MSI has to adjust CPU Lite Load to maximum mode (Mode 20) to successfully bench a CPU.

Does CPU Lite Load work?
Based on previous experiment, default power consumption and vcore when Intel turbo boost is enabled is 211.4W and 1.219V. However, if we change CPU Lite Load Mode to 4, with same configuration, it will change to 147W/1.1V, but since the vcore and power supply is too low, the system eventually BSOD."

 

Whenever you get the chance Rascal, I just want to see if you have any tips for the following. The only issue I have is I know CPU Lite Load also lowers the Wattage the CPU uses, when I'm using Cinbench it seems the Max Package TDP being used is around 120W. I'm guessing this is close enough to PL1 of 125W, but it doesn't seem to ever go anywhere near PL2 territory of 181W during Benchmarking. Also Current/EDP Limit Throttling is constantly active. Any tips?

 

PL2 should only be short burst / period of time. I think Intel spec was...the CPU should hit PL2 for 10 or 20 seconds, and then immediately drop back down to PL1 / rated TDP.

 

It doesn't matter if the software is hitting the TDP or not. If be more focused if the CPU is able to hit advertised frequency / turbo frequency. If it is able to do that AND run at lower power and lower temperature, that is a BIG win.

[Ebony Falcon]

2 hours ago, Grumpycats said:

In the same boat, I built 2 identical systems 13600K / MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 (2x8 16GB GSkill Ripjaws 3600 CL16) / Deepcool AK620 / Thermalright CPU frame, Bios at defaults with Tower Cooler selected (288W / 512A) / Win 11 Pro

 

With gaming CPU temp hovers around 65-75C & 81-82C peak (HWMmonitor) which seems fine but a few seconds into Cinebench R23 and both systems will hit 100C, Temp drops immediately to upper 30s / low 40s when stopping the test so maybe it's a voltage issue after all? 

Use cpu lite mode 5 in bios it took 25c off of my temps without any performance lose 

its msi’s undervolt tuning 

 

 

[Bobzor]

7 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

PL2 should only be short burst / period of time. I think Intel spec was...the CPU should hit PL2 for 10 or 20 seconds, and then immediately drop back down to PL1 / rated TDP.

 

It doesn't matter if the software is hitting the TDP or not. If be more focused if the CPU is able to hit advertised frequency / turbo frequency. If it is able to do that AND run at lower power and lower temperature, that is a BIG win.

During Benchmarking it's hitting 4.78Ghz, so under the 5.1Ghz Max Clock. At the same time it's staying around 80C during Benchmarking. Not ideal, but I don't know what else to do.

 

I tried Undervolting and upped the Wattage, for 1 Min-and-30 Secs I was able to achieve 5.1Ghz, then it got Power Limit Throttled. I can't lower the Voltage anymore or the system is unstable & crashes.

 

The other issue is that after Undervolting & upping the Wattage manually my Voltage, while not benchmarking, was jumping up & down. It'd go from 1.23V down to 0.8V, kept going up-and-down every few seconds.

[Ebony Falcon]

13 minutes ago, Bobzor said:

During Benchmarking it's hitting 4.78Ghz, so under the 5.1Ghz Clock. At the same time it's staying around 80C during Benchmarking. Not ideal, but I don't know what else to do.

 

 

Remove power limit in bios and undervolt it

[Bobzor]

4 minutes ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Remove power limit in bios and undervolt it

Tried changing the Wattage via the CPU Cooler type (288W vs the 125W), the Watts during Testing was around 167W & I was hitting 100C Thermal Throttling.

[Bobzor]

2 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

PL2 should only be short burst / period of time. I think Intel spec was...the CPU should hit PL2 for 10 or 20 seconds, and then immediately drop back down to PL1 / rated TDP.

 

It doesn't matter if the software is hitting the TDP or not. If be more focused if the CPU is able to hit advertised frequency / turbo frequency. If it is able to do that AND run at lower power and lower temperature, that is a BIG win.

During Benchmarking it's hitting 4.78Ghz (this is when I'm keeping it in good condition making sure no Thermal Throttling & the Wattage usage is around 126W on average), which is under the 5.1Ghz Max Clock.

 

While not Benchmarking & not doing anything at all it's at a steady, and not moving, 5.087Ghz.

 

While Benchmarking Voltage drops to 1.134V, when non Benchmarking it's 1.245V.

 

At the same time it's staying around 80C during Benchmarking. I don't know what else to do, any tips?

[Ebony Falcon]

1 hour ago, Bobzor said:

Tried changing the Wattage via the CPU Cooler type (288W vs the 125W), the Watts during Testing was around 167W & I was hitting 100C Thermal Throttling.

Ok but undervolt it and the wattage will naturally come down 

if ur pushing 1.35v it’s gona be hot no matter what 

[Bobzor]

4 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Ok but undervolt it and the wattage will naturally come down 

if ur pushing 1.35v it’s gona be hot no matter what 

Don't think it ever hit 1.35V. I Undervolted and upped the Wattage, for 1 Min-and-30 Secs I was able to achieve 5.1Ghz, then it got Power Limit Throttled. I can't lower the Voltage anymore or the system is unstable & crashes.

 

The other issue is that after Undervolting & upping the Wattage manually my Voltage, while not benchmarking, was jumping up & down. It'd go from 1.23V down to 0.8V, kept going up-and-down every few seconds.

[Ebony Falcon]

8 hours ago, Bobzor said:

Don't think it ever hit 1.35V. I Undervolted and upped the Wattage, for 1 Min-and-30 Secs I was able to achieve 5.1Ghz, then it got Power Limit Throttled. I can't lower the Voltage anymore or the system is unstable & crashes.

 

The other issue is that after Undervolting & upping the Wattage manually my Voltage, while not benchmarking, was jumping up & down. It'd go from 1.23V down to 0.8V, kept going up-and-down every few seconds.

Ok up there wattage to 99999999 in the bios so it’s u limited 

vcore jumping around is normal don’t worry it just changes when the cpu clocks up and down

runr23 and tell me what the vcore is why it’s running and what ur temps get up too

[Grumpycats]

15 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Use cpu lite mode 5 in bios it took 25c off of my temps without any performance lose 

its msi’s undervolt tuning 

 

 

I slowly dropped CPU lite load from default 12 and currently I'm at mode 8 and not seeing any higher than 89C in Cinebench after a full 10 minute run, was it really that easy? I scored 23,808 which seems pretty close to what I'm seeing in 13600K reviews, also had HWMonitor up during the run which might of impacted score.

 

stats after 8 1/2 minutes into the run:

 

Results:

[Ebony Falcon]

7 hours ago, Grumpycats said:

I slowly dropped CPU lite load from default 12 and currently I'm at mode 8 and not seeing any higher than 89C in Cinebench after a full 10 minute run, was it really that easy? I scored 23,808 which seems pretty close to what I'm seeing in 13600K reviews, also had HWMonitor up during the run which might of impacted score.

 

stats after 8 1/2 minutes into the run:

 

Results:

I dropped to 5 on mine keep dropping it till u fail then put it back up one 

[Mr.Simon]

 

Thanks for posting this.  I thought my 13600KF was running hot and this was due to CPU Lite Load being set at 12.

 

I originally changed my CPU Lite Load to 9, which going by one of the pictures above is Intel's default.  I then had a go at overclocking and currently have CPU Lite Load set to 10 with core ratios of 56/44 or clock speeds as reported by CPUID HWmonitor 5586/4389.  Peak temperature after 10 mins on Cinebench R23 were 89C based on a room temp of about 20C.  This is with a Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360.

 

I have added no extra voltage and am surprised it's working as I thought I would need more power for this clock speed.

 

[Edit: Spoke to soon, Cinebench has just crashed.  I'll try adding something using the voltage offset.  Any suggestions of how much I need to add?]

 

 

[Grumpycats]

On 11/7/2022 at 2:39 PM, Ebony Falcon said:

I dropped to 5 on mine keep dropping it till u fail then put it back up one 

Think I was concerned about Bobzor having issues with his P cores throttling while using CPU Lite load, maybe some CPU's dont like being undervolted as much? not sure..

 

figured I would lower the lite mode just enough to get it away from thermal throttling temps under all core load, 89C isn't to bad since I won't be doing all core loads very often, Gaming runs at much lower temps.

 

The only settings ive changed in BIOS is enable memory xmp, tweaked case fan settings since im using the same case as previous i7 8700K build, changed CPU Lite mode to 8 and on the first power up it asked what type of CPU cooler I'm using and selected Tower air cooler.