Getting memory errors while running 4 sticks of Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 8GB (3200MHz), but ONLY when XMP is enabled.

[Artryx]

*Update - Problem (hopefully) resolved: Following the helpful advice mentioned from several users here, I have tried running all 4 sticks with XMP enabled, but at a lower speed (2933, instead of 3200) and so far every test I've run has shown no errors at all anymore. So the problem seems to be that I mistakingly assumed that because my CPU could handle 2 sticks at 1 speed, it could automatically handle 4 sticks pushed to the same level. This wasn't something that even crossed my mind in the realm of posibilities, and I feel pretty stupid because it sounds so painfully obvious to consider in retrospect. Will definitely be more cautious around this in future. Thank you everyone for the help!

 

Hi folks, so recently  I upgraded some parts in my computer, (more like, upgraded the entire computer, minus the CPU&MOBO which I will be upgrading next month).

 

My current specs are now as follows:

CPU: Ryzen 5 2600X

Motherboard: Gigabyte AB350-Gaming (Just the original version, not the Gaming 3)

GPU: MSI Gaming Trio Z RTX 3070

RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB (4x8gb) 3200MHz

PSU: Corsair RM850 80+ Gold 850w Modular PSU

 

My previous build used the current CPU, MOBO & half the RAM (Yes, I'm using 2 sets of 2x8gb. I originally had just the 16gb and bought the exact identical set, making sure I didn't just buy a set that looks the same). And I also intend on upgrading to a Ryzen 7 5800x, on a b550 board (currently looking at the MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk), but won't be able to do so until next month when I have some more money. I originally wasn't going to mix and match the old with the new, but my old GPU (GTX 1080) was dying, so using the new GPU right away was a given, the rest of the changes I've made so far were mostly case/fan related, with the only other big changes being the new psu (put it in, over my old EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze, just because adding the new GPU alone put the estimated wattage very close to my old PSUs limit, and didn't want to run any risks with it, and the doubling of my memory (from 16 to 32gb).

 

Anyway, I fomatted my SSD and reset windows, just because I'd prefer to start clean, even if it's only for 30 days and then I'll be resetting again for the new mobo/cpu combo).Finished setting up all my drivers, no issues so far. Then after a few hours in to testing the waters of my new PC (opening up some games, configuring some graphic settings), I got hit with a BSOD. A few hours later, I got a 2nd BSOD, this one stating: "Stop Code: DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL | What Failed: ndis.sys" . After doing some research online over this crash, I was advised it was something to do with drivers, or the driver network. I was following guides and solutions online, and at some point, I was recommended to run a windows memory diagnostic. I done this, and it came back and told me I had mermory errors. Following on from this, I looked online and was advised perform a full memtest86. I set up the flash drive, booted memtest and started the test. Got hit with 130 errors in the first pass (Test 7: 125 errors | Test 8: 3 errors | Test 9: 2 errors).

 

I immediately got to work on trying to diagnose if it was an individual stick / slot which was at fault, but found that all 4 sticks tested fine on all occasions, as did all 4 slots. The only time memtest would turn up any errors, it was when I had all 4 sticks connected (I hear this is not uncommon, but I have found there is slightly more to this in my situation). At some point, I decided to also try doing the tests, but with XMP disabled (sticks running at base 2133MHz), and in doing so, I discovered that errors were only occurring, when all 4 sticks were connected, specifically with xmp enabled. This I'm not sure if is still a common issue or not, I've been having a harder time trying to search up the issue/solutions.

 

It was worth noting, that not long before switching to 4 sticks of RAM, I had recently updated my BIOS version. I have been running the f50d (a 2020 release from Gigabyte) up until now, as I'm aware it's not always wise or necessary to constantly be updating your BIOS if everything is already working. The only reason I decided to update it from f50d to the latest, f51g version, is because while checking for the latest drivers on Gigabytes site, I seen the BIOS list and it had a note next to a more recent update saying "Major vulnerabilities updates, customers are strongly encouraged to update to this release at the earliest.". So I figured, if the manufacturer is strongly recommending updating, it's probably fine to update.

 

However, just to be sure it wasn't related to the BIOS version, I QFLASHed back to f50d out of concern that the new BIOS update was causing the XMP issues. After doing so, Windows memory diagnostics came back and said "no errors detected" but I was sceptical, and decided to go with another memtest to be safe, and yea I'm still detecting errors there.

 

So at this point, I'm really not sure what else to try. Any advice you can give me here would be greatly appreciated. I don't know why XMP is only causing problems with 4 sticks (again, 4 sticks without XMP running fine, and the sticks are completely identical (I even compared of all the readings for each stick on CPU-Z). The XMP profile works perfectly well for all sticks involved when I cut back to just running 2 sticks at a time, but it just isn't playing ball with 4. The tim,ings and voltages are the same as what corsair list on their website for XMP, and the same when running 2 sticks vs 4 with XMP enabled (1.35voltage, timings: 16|18|18|36). It's not a faulty BIOS version, because I've tried both updating and downgrading. I'm pretty sure it's not a individual/set of faulty sticks, as they all individually work a treat, and all slots on the mobo appear to be functioning fine as well.

[Aragorn-]

the IMC on the 2600x might simply not be up to the job. Try XMP on but clocked at 2933 instead of 3200 and see what happens.

[Origami Cactus]

6 minutes ago, Aragorn- said:

the IMC on the 2600x might simply not be up to the job. Try XMP on but clocked at 2933 instead of 3200 and see what happens.

To add to that, first and second gen ryzen processors really disliked having all 4 slots filled with high speed ram. While with 2 sticks it might run fine, the 4 sticks put too much strain on the IMC like you said. I also had to run my 3600mhz ram at 2933mhz on an 1700x, because I decided to go 4x8gb, instead of 2x16gb. They greatly improved the memory controller after 3rd gen, 3600x for example should have no problems running 3200mhz with 4 sticks.

[SpookyCitrus]

This may be an issue with you mix matching ram kits, regardless of if they are the same make, model, and speeds they can still have issues with compatibility. If they are not sold in a kit from the factory you run the risk of this happening. If you want to run a 4x8GB 32GB kit? Buy a single kit where all modules are rated and tested to work together, don't mix and match two separate kits. 

 

This is a daily occurrence and constantly brought up problem on these forums, unfortunately it is not fixable by tweaking settings, these two kits are just not capable of running together at rated XMP speeds. Only fix is to buy an actual kit of the size and speed of memory you want.

[tkitch]

So a few things:

1) XMP is not guaranteed. 
2) 2 Sticks is better than 4 for stability

 

Try manually setting some speeds (a bit below the XMP of your kits) and see what happens.  

[Artryx]

4 minutes ago, Aragorn- said:

the IMC on the 2600x might simply not be up to the job. Try XMP on but clocked at 2933 instead of 3200 and see what happens.

 

Just now, Origami Cactus said:

To add to that, first and second gen ryzen processors really disliked having all 4 slots filled with high speed ram. I also had to run my 3600mhz ram at 2933mhz on an 1700x, because I decided to go 4x8gb, instead of 2x16gb. They greatly improved the memory controller after 3rd gen, that should have no problems running 3200mhz with 4 sticks.

 

Hi there, thanks for the speedy replies.

 

I'll hop in the bios now and try lowering them to 2933, and then run another memtest. If it shows no issues, does that confirm it's just my CPU, and that I should be fine to bump them back up to 3200mhz when I upgrade to the 7 5800X? Or is it still an issue with the sticks themselves?

[Artryx]

2 minutes ago, SpookyCitrus said:

This is an issue with you mix matching ram kits, regardless of if they are the same make, model, and speeds they can still have issues with compatibility. If they are not sold in a kit from the factory you run the risk of this happening. If you want to run a 4x8GB 32GB kit? Buy a single kit where all modules are rated and tested to work together, don't mix and match two separate kits. 

 

This is a daily occurrence and constantly brought up problem on these forums, unfortunately it is not fixable by tweaking settings, these two kits are just not capable of running together at rated XMP speeds. Only fix is to buy an actual kit of the size and speed of memory you want.

Personally the problem is that every single enthusiast has a different opinion on the matter whenever I look this up. Anytime I have considered running 2 sets of 2 I have looked up what other people say, and you constantly find people either swearing by it, swearing against it, or saying "It very likely will work, but might not". So I appreciate that this could be the issue, and have considered it being a possibility, but this post is to check any other possibilies first, before I immediately default to (get rid of the sticks and buy a new set of 4x4)

[Origami Cactus]

8 minutes ago, Artryx said:

 

 

Hi there, thanks for the speedy replies.

 

I'll hop in the bios now and try lowering them to 2933, and then run another memtest. If it shows no issues, does that confirm it's just my CPU, and that I should be fine to bump them back up to 3200mhz when I upgrade to the 7 5800X? Or is it still an issue with the sticks themselves?

It is an issue with the memory controller, and on AM4 the memory controller is in the cpu, not the motherboard. So yes, when you swap the cpu for a newer one, you get a better integrated memory controller (IMC) as well. Don't listen to the guy that says 2 different kits won't work together, they absolutely will, without issues. You can even mix and match memory speeds, it will just use the lower speed then.

The issue shouldn't really be the sticks, even if they are bottom of the barrel (Corsair Vengeance ). Ryzen likes more something with better memory chips, for example Gskill, but we are only talking about 3200mhz here, so especially on a 5800x it will be totally fine.

[SpookyCitrus]

47 minutes ago, Artryx said:

Personally the problem is that every single enthusiast has a different opinion on the matter whenever I look this up. Anytime I have considered running 2 sets of 2 I have looked up what other people say, and you constantly find people either swearing by it, swearing against it, or saying "It very likely will work, but might not". So I appreciate that this could be the issue, and have considered it being a possibility, but this post is to check any other possibilies first, before I immediately default to (get rid of the sticks and buy a new set of 4x4)

All good that you want to try other things first, I'm just letting you know what I have experienced many times in my 15ish years as a professional technician and with helping others on this forum for the last, close to 5 years. I run into this issue every day here, as well as a few times a month in person at my shop. It's one of the more common issues that graces these forums. If the other options don't work, that is your issue. That's all I was saying.

[Artryx]

15 minutes ago, SpookyCitrus said:

All good that you want to try other things first, I'm just letting you know what I have experienced many times in my 15ish years as a professional technician and with helping others on this forum for the last, close to 5 years. I run into this is every day here, as well as a few times a month in person at my shop. It's one of the more common issues that graces these forums. If the other options don't work, that is your issue. That's all I was saying.

No worries, apologies if I sounded a bit 'ratty' in my reply. It's been a stressful week so far (this ram issue is just the latest of pc troubles I've had to address so far). It's my bad for not clarifying in my post that I was already aware of the risks of 2 sets of 2, and that I was just eliminating other possibilities first.

 

Appreciate the advice, and yea, if the suggestions mentioned on this post don't show any new results, then I think it's safe to say I have been extensive enough, and the next steps would be to try a set of 4 instead^^

[191x7]

The Zen+ memory controller can't handle 3200 MT/s on 4 slots, it's even a feat having 3200 stable on 2 slots with it. It's rated for 2933 at 2 slots and there's no quarantee to have even 2933 on 4 slots. It is not an opinion, it's a hardware fact.

And yes, as it was already stated, it's not a motherboard issue since the memory controller is on the CPU, so using the old motherboard but upgrading the CPU to a Zen 2 or Zen 3 will probably result with running 3200 on 4 slots without issues since their memory controller officially supports 3600.

Also, XMP is overclocking.

[SpookyCitrus]

47 minutes ago, Origami Cactus said:

Don't listen to the guy that says 2 different kits won't work together, they absolutely will, without issues. You can even mix and match memory speeds, it will just use the lower speed then.

Just to clarify I'm not saying that mix matching ram kits will not work entirely, I'm saying there is a risk that when doing so you may get issues, much more than just running at the lower speed of the two kits. Bluescreens, crashing, post issues, not being able to run at XMP speeds, etc can all be caused by incompatible ram kits being used together. There is a risk of mixing two sets regardless of make, model, and speeds. While it is very likely just an issue here with the memory controller and the 2600x not being able to run quad channel 3200mhz, I do like to inform people especially when issues are present of the risks of mix matching DDR4 ram.

 

I've seen this exact issue many times both on here and in person. You can ask others who you may think more of on here but regardless, mixing two memory kits together that are not tested at the factory and confirmed to work together have an actually pretty decent chance of not. While yes, in most cases mix matching kits can be fine. It's not really an issue at all with DDR3, but with DDR4 it can be a little more picky, again it does work a lot of the time. But the adverse does happen a lot more often then you think. You can't say it doesn't happen just because you haven't experienced it. I've seen it in person many times, and I have helped numerous people on these forums almost on a weekly basis who are dealing with it as well. Quite a few of my solved posts where I am marked as the solution are from this particular issue. All I was saying is that it's a high possibility that the two kits just won't work with each other at the rated XMP speed, or will cause crashing, bluescreens, and other issues if not compatible. Which is why it is always recommended to buy a kit of the size and speed you want. 

[Thomas4]

Just out of curiosity, not that I actually have the intention of doing so, is their a difference as to how get the best effect from mismatched RAM.. Is A-A-B-B better than A-B-A-B or does it really matter?

[freeagent]

1 minute ago, Thomas4 said:

Just out of curiosity, not that I actually have the intention of doing so, is their a difference as to how get the best effect from mismatched RAM.. Is A-A-B-B better than A-B-A-B or does it really matter?

It’s something you have to experiment with

[SpookyCitrus]

14 minutes ago, Thomas4 said:

Just out of curiosity, not that I actually have the intention of doing so, is their a difference as to how get the best effect from mismatched RAM.. Is A-A-B-B better than A-B-A-B or does it really matter?

Running quad channel on a 4 slot board it doesn't really matter, you can have any of the ram in any of the slots especially if they're the same make, model, and speed. If they are different speeds or sizes A-B-A-B is the typical install path but it really doesn't matter much and regardless all modules will run at the slower speed of the two kits. With two separate single modules you just make sure they're in the dual channel slots typically 2 and 4 on the board and it's the same thing, it doesn't really matter which one is in which of the 2 slots. It either works or it doesn't, it's really just how ever you want to do it in a 4 slot board with 4 modules.

[Artryx]

1 hour ago, 191x7 said:

The Zen+ memory controller can't handle 3200 MT/s on 4 slots, it's even a feat having 3200 stable on 2 slots with it. It's rated for 2933 at 2 slots and there's no quarantee to have even 2933 on 4 slots. It is not an opinion, it's a hardware fact.

And yes, as it was already stated, it's not a motherboard issue since the memory controller is on the CPU, so using the old motherboard but upgrading the CPU to a Zen 2 or Zen 3 will probably result with running 3200 on 4 slots without issues since their memory controller officially supports 3600.

Also, XMP is overclocking.

Yup, looks like you and a few others hit the nail right on the head here. I lowered it down to 2933MHz and it smashed the memtest and showed no errors at all.

 

My actual problem is (hopefully) now resolved. But just a quick question if you got a second:

I've just got to hold out for a month until I get a better CPU. In the meantime, I'm sure this is a dumb question, and answer is simple, but I've made that assumption to many times when it comes to computer specs, and have been wrong way more times than I've been right.

 

Would you recommend I just stick with the slightly lower speed (2933) and keep all 32 gigs, until I get the new CPU and can raise it again? Or would you say removing 2 sticks and utilizing the higher speed (3200) will outvalue the higher memory capacity? I know there are different reasons to go with higher RAM size, or higher RAM speeds, but just in general, like for someone who is probably gonna be playing various games, while having tons of webrowser tabs and software open?

[191x7]

3 hours ago, Artryx said:

 

Would you recommend I just stick with the slightly lower speed (2933) and keep all 32 gigs, until I get the new CPU and can raise it again? Or would you say removing 2 sticks and utilizing the higher speed (3200) will outvalue the higher memory capacity? I know there are different reasons to go with higher RAM size, or higher RAM speeds, but just in general, like for someone who is probably gonna be playing various games, while having tons of webrowser tabs and software open?

Having 4 sticks of single rank RAM makes the RAM run in Dual Channel Dual Rank mode. Dual Channel Dual Rank is faster than Dual Channel Single Rank, and not by a small margin on Ryzen CPU-s. To beat Dual Channel Dual Rank 2933 you'd probably need Dual Channel Single Rank 3333 or higher.

So, running 3200 with less RAM would actually hurt your performance, not by much, but you'd also loose a lot of memory capacity.

[Thomas4]

My apologies for hijacking the thread, I thought I was starting a new one, but thanks to everyone who replied as I thought that it didn't really matter as long as the slower speed was assigned in the BIOS.

Once again, sorry for the hijack - I'm gonna bail now D.B.!  D.B.!