HD800 Positional Audio

[BoredErica]

Hi,

 

I have a HD800 with O2/Dac combo. Does anybody know how it compares in the positional audio category for FPS games? Compared to the heavy hitters like AKG q701 and AudioTechnica AD700x/900x? I'm just talking about positional audio. More specifically, I'm talking about Battlefield 3, but if you have experience with these headphones please chime in. I'm thinking of flirting with Razer Surround to see if it helps. This is for Battlefield use... when I'm listening to music or playing a more laid-back game, I'll have Razer Surround off. Is there a way to get Razer Surround to auto turn-off when I'm not using it? I have go to Control Panel -> Audio hardware -> Use ODac to switch off Razer Surround.

 

Thanks!

[xyza]

Using surround sound will just drown out sounds at important frequencies and mess up the sound stage, stick to stereo.

[BaconComputing]

You...have...HD800's?!?!?!

[Lauen]

Not a lot of people have those headphones because they are ridiculously overpriced, and while they "have the perfect sound", they don't sound good to everyone. But Barnacules have them and AD700X, I will tweet at him and see what he says.

[Lauen]

So Barnacules says that the HD800's destroy the AD700X in terms of soundstage, but the AD700X are (of course) a better value.

[EmoRarity]

So Barnacules says that the HD800's destroy the AD700X in terms of soundstage, but the AD700X are (of course) a better value.

$100ish headphone verse a $800ish.

[creatip123]

So Barnacules says that the HD800's destroy the AD700X in terms of soundstage, but the AD700X are (of course) a better value.

 

$100ish headphone verse a $800ish.

 

What I want to know is how does it pit against AD700 (without X), in soundstage wideness. It's wider than even HD650, HE400, even LCD-2 (of course the latter 2 are planar, so I don't know if it's apple to apple). Nothing I tested so far come even to the AD700, in soundstage alone. 

[EmoRarity]

What I want to know is how does it pit against AD700 (without X), in soundstage wideness. It's wider than even HD650, HE400, even LCD-2 (of course the latter 2 are planar, so I don't know if it's apple to apple). Nothing I tested so far come even to the AD700, in soundstage alone. 

Planar/Dynamic, its another variable so you kinda can't, but what ever.

Since the AD700x is just a redesign, and I found them to sound the same.

[BrightCandle]

You have a couple of ways to go about getting surround sound out. The first is to set the game to headphone mode and leave it in 2.0 channel mode and it should give you the games version of surround sound effect over your headphones. As you have probably noticed its pretty rubbish.

 

Razor's surround sound software is about the worst of the positional implementations, but it does at least work. My personal favourite is the Soundblaster Z with 5.1 setup in game and in Windows, that produces by far the best positional audio in game. Of course if your using a DAC directly then a soundcard isn't really ideal but you can presumably set the output of the sound card to the DAC so you get the surround sound processing of SBX pro into the DAC for it to do the Amp work.

[creatip123]

Planar/Dynamic, its another variable so you kinda can't, but what ever.

Since the AD700x is just a redesign, and I found them to sound the same.

 

Well, haven't tried the x version, so I'll take your words for it. So the HD800 is actually wider than the AD700 then (from what Lauen said)

 

You have a couple of ways to go about getting surround sound out. The first is to set the game to headphone mode and leave it in 2.0 channel mode and it should give you the games version of surround sound effect over your headphones. As you have probably noticed its pretty rubbish.

 

Razor's surround sound software is about the worst of the positional implementations, but it does at least work. My personal favourite is the Soundblaster Z with 5.1 setup in game and in Windows, that produces by far the best positional audio in game. Of course if your using a DAC directly then a soundcard isn't really ideal but you can presumably set the output of the sound card to the DAC so you get the surround sound processing of SBX pro into the DAC for it to do the Amp work.

 

Had to do double take, but what you're saying is, 'use soundcard's DAC, output to external amp', am I right? Wouldn't it be better (and cheaper) to just buy just an amp (instead of DAC/amp)?

[EmoRarity]

Well, haven't tried the x version, so I'll take your words for it. So the HD800 is actually wider than the AD700 then (from what Lauen said)

 

 

Had to do double take, but what you're saying is, 'use soundcard's DAC, output to external amp', am I right? Wouldn't it be better (and cheaper) to just buy just an amp (instead of DAC/amp)?

A bit, but at what cost? 

[creatip123]

A bit, but at what cost? 

 

Well, if going for HD800 just for the wider soundstage, then yeah, it's waayyy overkill. But surely the sound quality is better in HD800 (compared to AD700)

[EmoRarity]

Well, if going for HD800 just for the wider soundstage, then yeah, it's waayyy overkill. But surely the sound quality is better in HD800 (compared to AD700)

Yeah, but not 1500 better. 

[creatip123]

Yeah, but not 1500 better. 

 

Is it or is it not worth the price difference is personal opinions, IMO. Like someone said, the higher the levels, the smaller ratio in quality difference vs price difference. I guess if someone's an audio-mania, AND bleeding money, he/she would go for the small quality difference, paying the big price difference. Personally, yeah, I can't even picture myself buying over $1000 headphones (but who knows, finger crossed )

 

Just today I chatted with a guy who works at an audio store. I asked him if he knows anyone (in my country) who actually own a Stax SR009 (http://www.amazon.com/STAX-SR-009-Electrostatic-Earspeakers-Japan/dp/B004W1S0BY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398639394&sr=8-1&keywords=stax+headphone), $5000 in amazon. He said, there are several people. 1 of them owns the SR009....and a HE-6....and an LCD-3. Let's take the cheapest of them, the HE-6 ($1300 in amazon). Is the SR009 better than the HE-6? Perhaps everyone will say 'yes'. Is the SR009 $3600 better? Well, at least according to that man/woman, it does...

 

On a side note, the guy warned me about the HE-6, that although it sounds really good, it's one of the hardest headphone to drive (properly)....

[xyza]

If I had money I wouldn't mind owning plenty of flagships from companies like Senneheiser, Hifiman, Audio Technica etc.

[BrightCandle]

Well, haven't tried the x version, so I'll take your words for it. So the HD800 is actually wider than the AD700 then (from what Lauen said)

 

 

Had to do double take, but what you're saying is, 'use soundcard's DAC, output to external amp', am I right? Wouldn't it be better (and cheaper) to just buy just an amp (instead of DAC/amp)?

The soundblaster Z and the Xonar sound cards etc unlike your external DAC have the ability to hook into the 5.1 output from Windows and convert it into a virtual surround sound for headphones. Its one of the few features that sound cards have that most external dacs don't have. Unfortunately its not actually hardware accelerated but there is no other way to get to the implementation, you have to buy a sound card to get at it. There are few different similar technologies such as SBX pro (Soundblaster Z), CMSS (previous soundblasters), Dolby Headphone (Asus Xonar) and then some software solutions like Razor's surround software. They all in essence do a similar thing, they set Windows to 5.1 channels, the game sees 5.1 and renders 5.1 channels of sound. The sound card takes it, converts it using a head related transfer function and outputs to your headphones 2.0 channels but with directionality built in. Of all the implementations only SBX pro claims to go back to the source of the sound and use its precise position as passed to the API of the game but honestly you have to compare them to work out which is better because different people prefer different HRTFs and effects and they all behave differently for different people.

 

What I am saying is to get to those implementations you need a sound card, then you have the sound card output digitally to your DAC using toslink or whatever it allows and then have it do the DAC conversion and AMP your headphones. In essence you are using the sound card purely for the 5.1 -> 2.0 HRTF based conversion in Windows. It is IMO the only benefit of a sound card over an external DAC, and it only aids gamers and only gamers who find the Razor software solution or the game in built functionality lacking.

[BoredErica]

If I had money I wouldn't mind owning plenty of flagships from companies like Senneheiser, Hifiman, Audio Technica etc.

 

Well, if going for HD800 just for the wider soundstage, then yeah, it's waayyy overkill. But surely the sound quality is better in HD800 (compared to AD700)

 

Yeah, but not 1500 better. 

Well, I didn't exactly get the HD800s solely for soundstage. 

 

I am selling my STX to somebody though, now I have the Objective.  :wacko: