New house New theater

[redbeard23]

I'm getting a house, built in the 70s, split level, unfinished basement, I'll have about a 12x12 space for a theater, I'm pretty much locked in on an 85in Samsung Neo QLED, what I need advice on is sound, I'd like to do Atmos, I was looking at something like this Klipsch Reference Cinema Dolby Atmos 5.1.4 System https://a.co/d/fm2D3zB, it doesn't seem to come with an amp/receiver, I have a big DVD Blu-ray collection but would also be using a roku

 

Would that be good for speakers? Better options? What receiver would I need? 

[cmndr]

Some bits and pieces to point out, not all TVs are made equal and neither are all Samsungs... The QN85A, QN90QA, QN95QA, etc. are all SOLID devices. Same story for the B variants (though they're not as good of bang/$). The lower end gear from Samsung is riding off of Samsung's reputation, not the actual product itself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/vaxvdt/home_theater_101_why_you_shouldnt_buy_the_2022/

If the unit is in a basement though, you could probably get away with an OLED. I have a QN90A because of concerns about light and burn in (also using the unit as a desktop monitor).
 

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One thing to note, a 12x12 room is usually considered a "small" room. This is small with respect to bass sound waves. A square room can also be a bit tricky to work with when it comes to bass. My own room is around 12x12. One up side of a small room is that you don't need super powerful amplification or highly efficient speakers. You can easily drive just about any speaker to obscenely loud sound levels.

The Klipsch set up is serviceable though there are better options out there. This is especially the case since the atmos effects come from beaming sound onto the ceiling.

Receivers can be pricey - getting to 5.X.4 is usually around $1000-1500. 5.X.2 receivers are usually more like $450ish these days (think denon 760h). I'd say go 2 fewer speakers and have all the other speakers be a bit better. Maybe toss some $$ at room treatment too. The back atmos speakers don't get used THAT much (though there are some cases where I've found it's nice to have rear speakers, the sound is more diffuse which helps if you happen to be 1' from a side speaker)


My general recommendation for speakers is to get the best pair of bookshelf speakers feasible and great subwoofer(s) and then everything else is just sorta kinda there (something like 90% of your sound will come from the front sound stage + subwoofer and this includes most music as well as voices - things on the sides are usually sound effects that don't demand great sound quality). Also IF you have a center channel it needs to be a GOOD one. If you're sitting on axis in a theater you can probably get away without a center and just having better L+R speakers for a phantom center set up (not this requires a dash more finessing with positioning)

Think Emotiva B1+, Elac Debut 5.2", JBL 530 (when they're on sale for $240ish), Polk ES15 and a few others for the L+R. These are all around $250.
Subwoofer - SVS PB1000, SB1000, etc. I usually try to get these used for $250-300ish. Rel, Hsu, Outlaw and Monolith also have decent options.
side speakers - these matter a lot less. I personally use ELAC Debut 2.0 OW4.2, they're around 250ish a pair. You can get away with cheaper side speakers.
Atmos/height speakers - similarish story for these. not THAT much sound comes from them, you can get away with relatively dinky speakers.

The B1+ are good all around speakers and it's hard to go wrong with them - https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/emotiva_airmotiv_b1plus/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review-bookshelf-speaker.22366/
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review/

If you do get a center channel speaker, a BIG chunk of the sound that would otherwise go to the L+R speakers lands in the center. It's HARD to do center channels well and the Emotiva C1+ is the cheapest center I could recommend. I'm actually NOT using mine right now and I'm not missing much.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/emotiva_airmotiv_c1plus/

Other considerations for centers - Monoprice Encore C6, Kef Q250c and SVS Prime center. Erins Audio corner has reviews on them all. Do note that it's HARD to do a center channel well since multiple side by side drivers can result in poor radiation patterns and non-linearities.

For my own atmos/height speakers I'm using an old set of Klipsch quintet satelite speakers that I found for $100ish. All they need to do is pump out some noise. I have them mounted at the corner of the ceiling.

 

 

 

As an FYI speaker positioning matters. In the image below you'll notice that the front speakers are at a particular angle relative to the main listening position. Also the HEIGHT/elevation speakers are at a specific angle. If your chair is in the exact center of your room then placing two satellite speakers about 8' above the ground and pointed at the listening spot will get you fairly close to the correct angle.

 

[redbeard23]

8 hours ago, cmndr said:

Some bits and pieces to point out, not all TVs are made equal and neither are all Samsungs... The QN85A, QN90QA, QN95QA, etc. are all SOLID devices. Same story for the B variants (though they're not as good of bang/$). The lower end gear from Samsung is riding off of Samsung's reputation, not the actual product itself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HTBuyingGuides/comments/vaxvdt/home_theater_101_why_you_shouldnt_buy_the_2022/

If the unit is in a basement though, you could probably get away with an OLED. I have a QN90A because of concerns about light and burn in (also using the unit as a desktop monitor).
 

--------

 

One thing to note, a 12x12 room is usually considered a "small" room. This is small with respect to bass sound waves. A square room can also be a bit tricky to work with when it comes to bass. My own room is around 12x12. One up side of a small room is that you don't need super powerful amplification or highly efficient speakers. You can easily drive just about any speaker to obscenely loud sound levels.

The Klipsch set up is serviceable though there are better options out there. This is especially the case since the atmos effects come from beaming sound onto the ceiling.

Receivers can be pricey - getting to 5.X.4 is usually around $1000-1500. 5.X.2 receivers are usually more like $450ish these days (think denon 760h). I'd say go 2 fewer speakers and have all the other speakers be a bit better. Maybe toss some $$ at room treatment too. The back atmos speakers don't get used THAT much (though there are some cases where I've found it's nice to have rear speakers, the sound is more diffuse which helps if you happen to be 1' from a side speaker)


My general recommendation for speakers is to get the best pair of bookshelf speakers feasible and great subwoofer(s) and then everything else is just sorta kinda there (something like 90% of your sound will come from the front sound stage + subwoofer and this includes most music as well as voices - things on the sides are usually sound effects that don't demand great sound quality). Also IF you have a center channel it needs to be a GOOD one. If you're sitting on axis in a theater you can probably get away without a center and just having better L+R speakers for a phantom center set up (not this requires a dash more finessing with positioning)

Think Emotiva B1+, Elac Debut 5.2", JBL 530 (when they're on sale for $240ish), Polk ES15 and a few others for the L+R. These are all around $250.
Subwoofer - SVS PB1000, SB1000, etc. I usually try to get these used for $250-300ish. Rel, Hsu, Outlaw and Monolith also have decent options.
side speakers - these matter a lot less. I personally use ELAC Debut 2.0 OW4.2, they're around 250ish a pair. You can get away with cheaper side speakers.
Atmos/height speakers - similarish story for these. not THAT much sound comes from them, you can get away with relatively dinky speakers.

The B1+ are good all around speakers and it's hard to go wrong with them - https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/emotiva_airmotiv_b1plus/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review-bookshelf-speaker.22366/
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/emotiva-airmotiv-b1-review/

If you do get a center channel speaker, a BIG chunk of the sound that would otherwise go to the L+R speakers lands in the center. It's HARD to do center channels well and the Emotiva C1+ is the cheapest center I could recommend. I'm actually NOT using mine right now and I'm not missing much.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/emotiva_airmotiv_c1plus/

Other considerations for centers - Monoprice Encore C6, Kef Q250c and SVS Prime center. Erins Audio corner has reviews on them all. Do note that it's HARD to do a center channel well since multiple side by side drivers can result in poor radiation patterns and non-linearities.

For my own atmos/height speakers I'm using an old set of Klipsch quintet satelite speakers that I found for $100ish. All they need to do is pump out some noise. I have them mounted at the corner of the ceiling.

 

 

 

As an FYI speaker positioning matters. In the image below you'll notice that the front speakers are at a particular angle relative to the main listening position. Also the HEIGHT/elevation speakers are at a specific angle. If your chair is in the exact center of your room then placing two satellite speakers about 8' above the ground and pointed at the listening spot will get you fairly close to the correct angle.

 

Ya I do plan to cover the walls with foam, especially as the house is a split level, so the lower level is bottom third is cinderblock and the upper wall is traditional stud and drywall.

A question, if I do in ceiling speakers rather than ones like the Klipsch that reflects, would I want to do sound treatment on the ceiling as well?

 

The room won't be square, and actually won't have a door, im sure that will effect the bass. there's also a large window that will get a blackout curtain, but the room certainly won't be perfectly light controlled, that's why I was looking at mini led like the neo qled rather than an oled. I will be doing black paint in the room, and the rest of the lower level will be medium gray, the sound panels I was looking at are also black

[cmndr]

One bit to be aware of, not all foam is created equal. I believe you want open cell foam (I could have this switched).

here's an AWESOME video on room treatment. This guy goes a bit overboard though (he drank his own kool aid).

One trick - if you have 2" thick panels you can get almost double the absorption (in terms of frequencies) by placing them on top of a 2" thick frame (so only air between the panel and wall)

The most important places to do room treatment are the first reflection points.

 

I'd probably focus on rockwool moreso than foam.

 

Quote

A question, if I do in ceiling speakers rather than ones like the Klipsch that reflects, would I want to do sound treatment on the ceiling as well?

In-ceiling vs "on ceiling" (probably the wrong term but basically anything bolted up there) won't matter a ton. The bigger thing is to avoid reflection based approaches.

Also it's more important to hit first reflection points than the area NEXT to or behind a speaker. Most of the benefit will come from treating the first reflection points for the front speakers.

 

Quote

large window that will get a blackout curtain

This is good enough to not worry about light too much.
The QN90a and similar are still fine though.
Also be aware that you can sometimes get deals via EPP (employee purchase program) and similar. I think I saved something like $100-200 by typing in my employer's details and ordering off of Samsung's website.

 

[sm1th5]

Do not buy that system you linked. Buy seperate speakers etc.

[redbeard23]

6 hours ago, sm1th5 said:

Do not buy that system you linked. Buy seperate speakers etc.

ive been looking at dayton components, it would end up only about $100 more than that klipsche set and i would have dual 6 1/2 front tower speakers, single 6 1/2 bookshelf rears, and a dual 4 1/2 center channel, and a 12 inch sub

what im really liking is the reparability, the speakers unscrew from the front, and they sell the woofers and tweeters on their own so i can order a replacement and drop it in, maybe a 5 minute job

[cmndr]

Repairability probably won’t matter for 10-50 years and by that time, good luck finding the exact same parts. 

[IPD]

Ceiling foam will probably adversely impact ATMOS for any indirect audio signals.  If you are going to the work of wiring up only direct signal (ceiling mount speakers) then ceiling foam will probably be fine.

 

Also, I would consider a butt-shaker.  That will give you more bass feel--but you won't necessarily rattle everything upstairs with bass-feedback.  That way you can keep the sub at a somewhat lower level--and still get the desired effect.

[cmndr]

On 8/7/2022 at 5:50 AM, IPD said:

Ceiling foam will probably adversely impact ATMOS for any indirect audio signals.  If you are going to the work of wiring up only direct signal (ceiling mount speakers) then ceiling foam will probably be fine.

 

Also, I would consider a butt-shaker.  That will give you more bass feel--but you won't necessarily rattle everything upstairs with bass-feedback.  That way you can keep the sub at a somewhat lower level--and still get the desired effect.

Putting that in other terms - diffusion is probably bad for reflection based atmos (but doesn't matter or is GOOD for direct firing configs).

A mix of diffusion and absorption is a a good thing in general.

Also tactile tranducers do GOOD things for movies. One or two mixed into a couch will help a fair bit. You can always unplug it if it turns out to be too much.