Confused about buying a macro lens

[Aaralli]

I am looking to purchase a macro lens for my Canon EOS 90D. I have a small photography business in San Diego CA and I'm moving partially into the product/commercial photography stuff... my first big client is a diamond broker so I need REALLY close sharp photos. I want the lens to be EF mount, not EF-S so that I can carry it forward to other cameras (obviously not RF even though that's where all of Canon's focus is right now). Anyway, I can't afford the Canon EF 100mm F2.8L that seems to be the gold standard, so I was looking at used options on eBay. There was a Tamron 90mm I liked, a Tokina 100mm I considered, and a few older lenses (more than 15-20 years in some cases) I was looking at, but I don't really know much about macro lenses. I don't know what lenses are good, which to avoid, or how much I should be paying. I've never bought a used lens, either. Does anyone have any tips, advice, or anything else? By the way, I considered extension tubes, teleconverters, and macro filters too, and even with a macro lens I figured maybe those could come in handy too?

[LWM723]

I've used macro filters with a 50mm lens and it worked very good.

[GhostRoadieBL]

do you already have a decent prime lens you are comfortable using? if so extension rings might be your best first step. Some of the more expensive extension rings transfer data and autofocus signals from the camera to the lens so it functions as if it's a macro lens.

All the rings do is change the near focus point of the lens allowing you to move the lens closer to the subject.

 

if you are set on a used lens,

ebay ratings are all over the map. I'll never buy a lens where the seller didn't post (or if you message them they won't show) photos of the front and rear glass elements, most reliable sellers have large collections of lenses they will be selling and prices are in an obvious range when looking through multiples of the same lens. outliers are often either new in box or broken/worn in some way which prevents them from asking the normal price.

 

since the subjects are stationary don't worry as much about non-autofocus lenses, you can zoom in the screen to get perfect focus on your camera. Often older glass (there's hundreds of good and bad old lenses) have a less clinical look to the photos which has to do with less filtering coatings, less glass elements and in many cases just better build quality. Those lenses will also require more practice to make them look the best they can and you will run into glare, halos and chromatic colour shifts which are sometimes hard to remove in post-edits. When you get the lighting right and the focus just right the older lenses should cause the subject to jump from the frame unlike anything you can do with modern lenses.

[Aaralli]

1 hour ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

do you already have a decent prime lens you are comfortable using? if so extension rings might be your best first step. Some of the more expensive extension rings transfer data and autofocus signals from the camera to the lens so it functions as if it's a macro lens.

All the rings do is change the near focus point of the lens allowing you to move the lens closer to the subject.

 

if you are set on a used lens,

ebay ratings are all over the map. I'll never buy a lens where the seller didn't post (or if you message them they won't show) photos of the front and rear glass elements, most reliable sellers have large collections of lenses they will be selling and prices are in an obvious range when looking through multiples of the same lens. outliers are often either new in box or broken/worn in some way which prevents them from asking the normal price.

 

since the subjects are stationary don't worry as much about non-autofocus lenses, you can zoom in the screen to get perfect focus on your camera. Often older glass (there's hundreds of good and bad old lenses) have a less clinical look to the photos which has to do with less filtering coatings, less glass elements and in many cases just better build quality. Those lenses will also require more practice to make them look the best they can and you will run into glare, halos and chromatic colour shifts which are sometimes hard to remove in post-edits. When you get the lighting right and the focus just right the older lenses should cause the subject to jump from the frame unlike anything you can do with modern lenses.

Thank you, that's really helpful. So, in the way, dedicated macro lenses are literally just normal lenses with a "built in" extension tube? Also, I actually have already tried the Canon EF extension tube and it isn't compatible with the EF-S lenses I have, so I'd need to buy am EF prime or something anyway...

[GhostRoadieBL]

14 minutes ago, Aaralli said:

Thank you, that's really helpful. So, in the way, dedicated macro lenses are literally just normal lenses with a "built in" extension tube? Also, I actually have already tried the Canon EF extension tube and it isn't compatible with the EF-S lenses I have, so I'd need to buy am EF prime or something anyway...

The simple answer is yes, there's a deep rabbit hole of lensing and modifying light coming into the lens and how it straightens the beams for a sharper image in newer macro lenses but a decent prime and extension tubes get you really close.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144504999118

100mm f2 is an awesome portrait lens, already fairly close focus

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264852307636

100mm f2.8 macro I usually trust lenses from japan, very very detailed checks and descriptions.

If those are too expensive, 50mm prime would be another option but you'll need to get very close to the subject for macro.

[Aaralli]

14 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

The simple answer is yes, there's a deep rabbit hole of lensing and modifying light coming into the lens and how it straightens the beams for a sharper image in newer macro lenses but a decent prime and extension tubes get you really close.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144504999118

100mm f2 is an awesome portrait lens, already fairly close focus

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264852307636

100mm f2.8 macro I usually trust lenses from japan, very very detailed checks and descriptions.

If those are too expensive, 50mm prime would be another option but you'll need to get very close to the subject for macro.

Okay, one more question and I'll have my answer to all of this. I just had an idea and I need to find out if this is absolutely crazy or not.... So I have the Canon extension tube already. If I buy a macro lens, which as previously discussed already has a sort of built in extension, can I combine them to get even CLOSER to the subject? On top of that, can I incorporate teleconverters or macro filters on top of ALL THAT to get an even bigger, closer, "zoomier" picture? I know I'm treading well into the crazy, but this is really just a thought experiment at this point. I also know that adding all this really screws with depth of field and diffraction and other things, though. At some point, I'll buy a macro lens, a 2x teleconverter, and a filter, and I'll mess around with them until I post my results here and on some subreddit just so it's out there in the world.

[GhostRoadieBL]

I've never seen something like that tried, you'll need a ton of light to compensate and the best answer I can give is maybe it'll work.

You would have to set them up as camera-extention-teleconverter-lens but I think you would be reversing what the tubes do with the teleconverter.

Tubes make the subject seem further away than it is so the lens can focus on it, teleconverters make it seem closer to the lens, they should be doing opposite things to the light beams from the lens.

[Aaralli]

8 hours ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

I've never seen something like that tried, you'll need a ton of light to compensate and the best answer I can give is maybe it'll work.

You would have to set them up as camera-extention-teleconverter-lens but I think you would be reversing what the tubes do with the teleconverter.

Tubes make the subject seem further away than it is so the lens can focus on it, teleconverters make it seem closer to the lens, they should be doing opposite things to the light beams from the lens.

I looked it up and there was a single article about mixing these things. It specified that you need to put them in this order: camera body, two 2x teleconverters, extension tube, then they did their normal lens. 

[Vilacom]

You’ve gotten some pretty good advice here but I just wanted to step in with a little more general advice.

Using the extension tube will work fine for the near future, but I would really advise not buying a used/older lens if you can at all avoid it.  High quality glass is where you want to put your money when it comes to photography, so if you can get away with what you currently have for a couple months and then invest in the EF 100mm F2.8 that is an excellent long term investment in your business that will pay itself off many times over.  It’s a phenomenal lens and absolutely deserves it’s status as the gold standard and with the EF-RF converter it will be just as good on any new body you might purchase in the future.

Another excellent option is to rent the high quality lens for the job until you can purchase your own, a quick glance at San Diego sharegrid lens rental prices(no affiliation or anything, just a quick look) you can get the lens for about $25 a day on rental.  If this is a larger client and you really want to make sure to bring the A game I would HIGHLY suggest this route over buying something you're not sure about off eBay. 

[Blue4130]

I use a bellows and old print enlarger lens. Works quite nicely. 

 

[Aaralli]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:52 PM, Vilacom said:

You’ve gotten some pretty good advice here but I just wanted to step in with a little more general advice.

Using the extension tube will work fine for the near future, but I would really advise not buying a used/older lens if you can at all avoid it.  High quality glass is where you want to put your money when it comes to photography, so if you can get away with what you currently have for a couple months and then invest in the EF 100mm F2.8 that is an excellent long term investment in your business that will pay itself off many times over.  It’s a phenomenal lens and absolutely deserves it’s status as the gold standard and with the EF-RF converter it will be just as good on any new body you might purchase in the future.

Another excellent option is to rent the high quality lens for the job until you can purchase your own, a quick glance at San Diego sharegrid lens rental prices(no affiliation or anything, just a quick look) you can get the lens for about $25 a day on rental.  If this is a larger client and you really want to make sure to bring the A game I would HIGHLY suggest this route over buying something you're not sure about off eBay. 

Thank you so much for that advice, I will absolutely save up for a nicer lens, like the L series 100mm Macro. Until then, I bought an open box Canon 25mm extension tube and an excellent condition used 50mm F1.4 USM lens. I was wondering though, if you saw someone else's answer somewhere on here, that the "Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2:1 Ultra Macro" lens was even better than the Canon 100mm L series, because it has a 2:1 magnification rather than the normal 1:1... Or should I just use a 2x teleconverter and get the same result?

[vf1000ride]

I have a cheap set of the non-electric extension tubes that I have played with to get a standard lens to do macro work in a pinch.  They aren't great but they can get some good results if you take your time.  Biggest downfall is not being able to control all functions of the lens, aperture runs wide open so your depth of field is very narrow.  I have older gear these days but have gotten some fun photo's with it.  Canon T1i rebel with an EF 28-135 USM IS lens.  My tube set is just a simple setup of a lens adapter, camera mount, and 3 interchangeable extensions.  You can combine them for a multitude of different combinations/lengths.  Here's a shot of the extensions and then a picture I took using them of the back of a penny and a watch face.