Choosing a graphics card

[slimjim_xd]

Hi, I'm new on here but watched LTT for quite a while (I remember Luke's fishtank mineral oil PC build). I have a Framework laptop and just bought a Razer Core X enclosure, I'm looking at an RTX 1650 super and an RTX 1660 super. From my understanding the only difference besides price ofc is that the 1660 can do raytracing. Am I missing out on much if I get the 1650 super over the 1660 super? Thank you in advance. 

 

Edit: didn't realize I mistyped GTX to RTX my appologies. Appreciate the replies and support. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by slimjim_xd

[connorkincaid]

5 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

Hi, I'm new on here but watched LTT for quite a while (I remember Luke's fishtank mineral oil PC build). I have a Framework laptop and just bought a Razer Core X enclosure, I'm looking at an RTX 1650 super and an RTX 1660 super. From my understanding the only difference besides price ofc is that the 1660 can do raytracing. Am I missing out on much if I get the 1650 super over the 1660 super? Thank you in advance. 

The 1650 wont be as good. However, no, the 1660 cannot perform ray tracing. That is limited to some 2000 series cards, and more notably, the cards that can ACTUALLY use the system, 3000 series cards. 

[bmx6454]

1660s is definitely the better card. neither can do ray tracing. as far as which one to get, really depends on the prices imo. what's your budget, and rest of system specs?

[Biohazard777]

23 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

RTX 1650 super and an RTX 1660 super. From my understanding the only difference besides price ofc is that the 1660 can do raytracing.

Neither of those two cards are RTX, they are GTX.... they don't do raytracing (they lack the actual HW to do so, RT cores).
 

23 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

Am I missing out on much if I get the 1650 super over the 1660 super? Thank you in advance. 

Features are the same, performance and the amount of VRAM (6 vs 4) are the only differences.
This should give you a rough idea about performance differences.
https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-super-vs-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1650-super/intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/

Spoiler

As for VRAM... you either have enough or you don't... if you don't have enough you have to lower in-game settings or have some games crash on you.

 

23 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

I have a Framework laptop and just bought a Razer Core X enclosure,

How much did it cost? You probably could have gotten a laptop with RTX 3050ti or better for roughly the same amount of money, instead of investing in "reparable/upgradable" framework laptop which can't actually have the CPU or GPU replaced without replacing the whole mobo... Just my opinion.

Finally, RTX isn't good just for raytracing, it allows you to use DLSS which can significantly increase your FPS in certain games without losing that much in terms of how good the game looks like.

 

[slimjim_xd]

thank you everyone I admit I was basing that raytracing info from GPUz screenshots so forgive me please for my lack of knowledge. I'm looking to spend no more than 450 really. I found the 1650 super for about 300 on amazon and the 1660 super on ebay for around 450-600 with best offers avail honestly I think almost anything might be better than the Xe graphics of intel. Also just a side note when researching egpus everyone says to use an external monitor cause of the bandwith issue on thunderbolt 3. My question is why not just have 2 thunderbolt 3 ports one for input and one for output so u can use all the lanes. If this question is a (thats not how any of this works) thing please forgive me just the first thought that came to my head when I heard that. 

[slimjim_xd]

18 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

How much did it cost? You probably could have gotten a laptop with RTX 3050ti or better for roughly the same amount of money, instead of investing in "reparable/upgradable" framework laptop which can't actually have the CPU or GPU replaced without replacing the whole mobo... Just my opinion.

 

The Core x was 250 the laptop I paid 800 and had ram from another system and the 2tb nvme was only 100 so all in i'm about 1100 or so in money wise and yes I did buy into the modularity of the framework but all in all I love my frame work (repairablity "gimmic or not" aside) I also took Linus up on his idea of making a "magsafe" module and I love it. Mind you my previous laptop was a 2012 Macbook pro. so being on PC is a new world for me again. relearning the ropes. 

[slimjim_xd]

I almost forgot if it helps the games I'm playing aren't exactly 2021/22 AAA games the newest AAA game I'd be playing is the remake of Mafia and GTAV I think is known to need good cards and I would like to mod the heack out of Fallout 4 I am getting a steamdeck too but I wanted to get the egpu setup first then get a steamdeck. 

[chocolatekarma]

There is no such thing as an RTX 1650 Super or RTX 1660.  They're GTX cards.  Only 20 and 30 series cards are RTX.

 

The performance difference between the two is pretty small, so if you can get a GTX 1650 Super for a good amount less, then buy that.  I previously used a 1650 Super as my main GPU, and when overclocked it matches 1660 performance.

[Biohazard777]

12 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

'm looking to spend no more than 450 really. I found the 1650 super for about 300 on amazon and the 1660 super on ebay for around 450-600 with best offers avail honestly I think almost anything might be better than the Xe graphics of intel.

Yeah anything will be a lot better than Intel integrated you've got now.
300$ for a new and under warranty 1650 super is IMHO ok, the card used to cost close to 200$ before the whole GPU shortage nightmare. So while you are paying an inflated price, you are paying "just" 100$ more. 1660 super used to cost ~250$, so if you buy it at 450$ you are paying 200$ more... If you need the 1660 level of performance then that is what you buy *, if you just want something that can do 1080p gaming then I'd recommend getting 1650 for now.
*This is all under premise you are buying new with warranty, if you are buying used then instead of 1660S IMO you should be looking at RTX 2060 (450-600$ on eBay), RTX 2060 offers slightly more in raw performance than GTX 1660 Super, and being RTX it also allows you to use DLSS (and Ray Tracing, but honestly I'd keep RT off because it heavily affects FPS).

 

7 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

I almost forgot if it helps the games I'm playing aren't exactly 2021/22 AAA games the newest AAA game I'd be playing is the remake of Mafia and GTAV I think is known to need good cards and I would like to mod the heack out of Fallout 4 I am getting a steamdeck too but I wanted to get the egpu setup first then get a steamdeck. 

At 1080p, 1650S is fine.

 

13 minutes ago, slimjim_xd said:

The Core x was 250 the laptop I paid 800 and had ram from another system and the 2tb nvme was only 100 so all in i'm about 1100 or so in money wise and yes I did buy into the modularity of the framework but all in all I love my frame work (repairablity "gimmic or not" aside) I also took Linus up on his idea of making a "magsafe" module and I love it. Mind you my previous laptop was a 2012 Macbook pro. so being on PC is a new world for me again. relearning the ropes. 

Even if we forget about the external gpu enclosure price and the gpu you need to buy to put into that enclosure... for roughly the same amount you could have gotten a laptop that has a decent dedicated GPU, like the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-5-series/legion-5-pro-16ach6h/wmd00000468

Spoiler

I'd add at leas 8GB of RAM

If you need more storage, cheaper model has these options:

The more expensive model has these options:

TL:DR don't trust Linus too much. 

 

[slimjim_xd]

12 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

Yeah anything will be a lot better than Intel integrated you've got now.
300$ for a new and under warranty 1650 super is IMHO ok, the card used to cost close to 200$ before the whole GPU shortage nightmare. So while you are paying an inflated price, you are paying "just" 100$ more. 1660 super used to cost ~250$, so if you buy it at 450$ you are paying 200$ more... If you need the 1660 level of performance then that is what you buy *, if you just want something that can do 1080p gaming then I'd recommend getting 1650 for now.
*This is all under premise you are buying new with warranty, if you are buying used then instead of 1660S IMO you should be looking at RTX 2060 (450-600$ on eBay), RTX 2060 offers slightly more in raw performance than GTX 1660 Super, and being RTX it also allows you to use DLSS (and Ray Tracing, but honestly I'd keep RT off because it heavily affects FPS).

 

At 1080p, 1650S is fine.

 

Even if we forget about the external gpu enclosure price and the gpu you need to buy to put into that enclosure... for roughly the same amount you could have gotten a laptop that has a decent dedicated GPU, like the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro:
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-5-series/legion-5-pro-16ach6h/wmd00000468

  Reveal hidden contents

I'd add at leas 8GB of RAM

If you need more storage, cheaper model has these options:

The more expensive model has these options:

TL:DR don't trust Linus too much. 

 

lol I admit I did buy a bit into linus with the framework but I also took advice about it from Louis Rossmann and even my own independent research. and it apealed to me most. I want to thank you personally very much for your time. I think for now I'll get the 1650 super since it's closer to my budget and wait a few years for the gpu prices to stablilize again. I remember when the tsunami hit japan and killed prices for hard drives and that took a while to restabilize. I was curious on your thoughts about using 2 thunderbolt cables to deter the issue with bandwith is that something that manufactures of egpus could do or is that just not feasable. or just doesn't work?

 

Also this is the 1650s i'm looking at ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC 4GB GDDR6

[Biohazard777]

1 hour ago, slimjim_xd said:

lol I admit I did buy a bit into linus with the framework but I also took advice about it from Louis Rossmann and even my own independent research. and it apealed to me most. I want to thank you personally very much for your time. I think for now I'll get the 1650 super since it's closer to my budget and wait a few years for the gpu prices to stablilize again. I remember when the tsunami hit japan and killed prices for hard drives and that took a while to restabilize. I was curious on your thoughts about using 2 thunderbolt cables to deter the issue with bandwith is that something that manufactures of egpus could do or is that just not feasable. or just doesn't work?

 

Also this is the 1650s i'm looking at ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC 4GB GDDR6

You are welcome. 

Yeah, there will be some bandwidth bottleneck issues:

As for TB3 on Intel CPUs it has been integrated into the die since Ice Lake (10th gen.). Each Ice Lake CPU can support up to 4 TB3 ports, with each TB3 port getting a full PCIe 3.0 x4.
Framework laptops are using Tiger Lake CPUs (11th gen), those come with integrated TB4 controllers and they have the same bandwidth per port. So in theory yeah, you should be able to increase bandwidth by using multiple cables (ports)... but it also depends on OEMs (in this case Framework) on how many of those actually made it into the product, just having the CPU in the system isn't enough, other chips (redrivers) are needed to support the USB Type-C connector, PD also requires extra circuitry. Honestly I don't know how Framework has implemented TB support in their laptops, you would need to ask them or people on their forums (I found this thread for you, but no conclusive answer: https://community.frame.work/t/4-thunderbolt-ports-on-the-model-40gbps-on-each-port/1779/12).
 

1 hour ago, slimjim_xd said:

Also this is the 1650s i'm looking at ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC 4GB GDDR6

Zotac is a known budget oriented brand, but as with all budget stuff there are some cons... like QC: I've seen their new 1060 card missing thermal pads on half of the RAM chips, fans can be loud, thermal paste degrading after a few years and stuff like that.  Nothing wrong with buying that card, just check the temperatures from time to time.

[slimjim_xd]

6 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

Framework laptops are using Tiger Lake CPUs (11th gen), those come with integrated TB4 controllers and they have the same bandwidth per port. So in theory yeah, you should be able to increase bandwidth by using multiple cables (ports)... but it also depends on OEMs (in this case Framework) on how many of those actually made it into the product, just having the CPU in the system isn't enough, other chips (redrivers) are needed to support the USB Type-C connector, PD also requires extra circuitry. Honestly I don't know how Framework has implemented TB support in their laptops, you would need to ask them or people on their forums (I found this thread for you, but no conclusive answer: https://community.frame.work/t/4-thunderbolt-ports-on-the-model-40gbps-on-each-port/1779/12).

thxz again. just bought the card. i'm sure it'll be a great experience and hopefully gpu prices will settle in a year or so and i can get a better upgrade then.